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Not particularely more than a Yamaha , for what I know.
medium range iH, that may also mean medium range tension
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Longer strings have higher tensions. Thicker strings have higher tensions. Longer pianos almost always have longer and thicker strings. 1st premise -- longer strings higher tension for a given pitch: Correct 2nd premise -- thicker strings higher tension for a given pitch: Correct. Conclusion-- Longer pianos almost always have longer and thicker strings (and therefore have higher tension): Incorrect. They may be longer but are not necessarily thicker. Bass strings on a 9' piano will always be significantly thinner than on a spinet. String lengths from c-52 up to c-88 on a 9' piano won't be much different from on a 45" upright. There are 4 basic styles of stringing scales . . . short scale/low tension short scale/high tension long scale/low tension long scale high tension Scaling style is not governed by the length of piano. For example, S&S "D" has a shorter scale (and lower tension) than the Kawai GS 100 scale which is a long scale/high tension scale. Both are 9' pianos, but that model of Kawai has a much higher tension scale. A couple of comments: That longer pianos almost always have longer and thicker strings is not a conclusion. It is an observation. There is an additional basic style of stringing scale, one which is very common: Scale lengths designed with no regard for tensions, with varying tensions across the range of the piano. In the other recently dredged up topic about scales, you can see my before and after charts of a piano designed with this stringing style, alongside my revised scale for the piano.
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Greetings,
I don't think additional tri-chords will require that much more tension, but I have a factory listing of tension in the Steinway pianos and it lists the D as having approx. 45,000 lbs. The D uses a 13 1/2 wire at the top, the S uses a 12 1/2.
Regards,
If I remember correctly, the D has a top C measuring less than 2". The S top C measures more than 2" or at least significantly more than the D. Anomalous but interesting.
Amanda Reckonwith
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.
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Greetings,
I don't think additional tri-chords will require that much more tension, but I have a factory listing of tension in the Steinway pianos and it lists the D as having approx. 45,000 lbs. The D uses a 13 1/2 wire at the top, the S uses a 12 1/2.
Regards,
If I remember correctly, the D has a top C measuring less than 2". The S top C measures more than 2" or at least significantly more than the D. Anomalous but interesting. I am not certain whether those dimensions are correct, because there can easily be sample error in that range of the piano, but even if they are, the longer speaking length would call for a thinner gauge to maintain the same tension.
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Greetings,
I don't think additional tri-chords will require that much more tension, but I have a factory listing of tension in the Steinway pianos and it lists the D as having approx. 45,000 lbs. The D uses a 13 1/2 wire at the top, the S uses a 12 1/2.
Regards,
If I remember correctly, the D has a top C measuring less than 2". The S top C measures more than 2" or at least significantly more than the D. Anomalous but interesting. I am not certain whether those dimensions are correct, because there can easily be sample error in that range of the piano, but even if they are, the longer speaking length would call for a thinner gauge to maintain the same tension. An that's precisely what Ed just got thru sayin'. This was from a check of 4-5 new NY instruments 15 yrs ago. I have another 4-5 hamburg instruments I can check on the next couple o days.
Amanda Reckonwith
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.
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Now, I see some have offered disagreement to my statement that a Steinway D has a higher tension. Especially in the longer strings.
Before I plod through each and every comment about higher/lower/thicker/thinner
May I ask those who have so quickly commented to find the next Steinway D, B, L, M they find, take measurements and plug these measurements into the Scale sheets everyone seems to have and then come here with the facts.
I have a Steinway D, 2 Centennials, B, ,M, Style 3, 2 style 2's, 2 Mason A', a Steingraeber 212 Phoenix, Steingraeber 5'8", 2001 Bosendorfer Strauss etc, etc.... all tucked away while I move my shop around. At some point, I'll check again .. And post specifics ... why wait for me though ...
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I would be happy to know, just the lenght and diameters of all the A's (or the C's) should say it all.
I am just referring to the book from Klaus Fenner that categorize 3 types of scales with low, medium and high iH
I just relate that to tension as such .
Please post some chart or data Larry, or BDB , who have it at hand.
Are the NY Steinway D's have the same scale than the Hamburg ones ?
I dont recall finding particularely thick strings in the high treble of D's or C, but if I did measur ethe whole scale I lost the files since then due to computer crash...
To measure with a metal ruler the top treble I was instructed to add 1 mm to me measure - that depending of the thickness of the ruler of course.
Last edited by Olek; 02/08/13 02:40 PM.
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I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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It is sort of a pain to post the Steinway gauges, but they are printed on the plates next to the tuning pins. They are also in their technical information. I do not have the speaking lengths for most of them, which is crucial, but I do not believe that there are any scales where a shorter piano has thicker plain strings than a longer piano.
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So why do you pretend of knowing things by experience, if you don't have the speaking lenghts ? diameters are easy to find.
They dont mean much by themselves.
Last edited by Olek; 02/08/13 04:55 PM.
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I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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As a retired English professor, I would point out that abbreviating a phrase conventionally euphemises it--and thus removes any profanity. Also, while there are several synonyms for the phrase "lose one's virginity" that could qualify for the usage labels "vulgar" or "obscene," there is no coarseness in the phrase itself.
If the OP is offended, he can complain to the moderator.
Anne'sson
El Paso, TX
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As a retired English professor, I would point out that abbreviating a phrase conventionally euphemises it--and thus removes any profanity. Also, while there are several synonyms for the phrase "lose one's virginity" that could qualify for the usage labels "vulgar" or "obscene," there is no coarseness in the phrase itself.
Greetings, I agree, I was more offended by the use of the phrase "loosing" ones virginity. Though loose people may lose theirs more readily, that still isn't reason enough to misspell it. Virginity means the same thing everywhere you apply it, virgin forests, virgin steel, even those vestal thingees. There is no need for people to get their brain caught in their zipper every time they hear the word. Regards,
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Ed, if we corrected spelling on lists, we'd never get anything else done!
Anne'sson
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Are the NY Steinway D's have the same scale than the Hamburg ones ? Yes. At least on paper  The S scale is a bit of an anomaly - the speaking length is 54 mm. The other models are all 49 mm, except for the C and D which are 50 mm. As I understand it, Steinway grands are in low tension scale area, except for the high tension models C and D. The S is a bit of a separate animal; some might say a nice piece of Steinway furniture.
JG
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Are the NY Steinway D's have the same scale than the Hamburg ones ? Yes. At least on paper The S scale is a bit of an anomaly - the speaking length is 54 mm. The other models are all 49 mm, except for the C and D which are 50 mm. As I understand it, Steinway grands are in low tension scale area, except for the high tension models C and D. The S is a bit of a separate animal; some might say a nice piece of Steinway furniture. Thank you Jurgen, any idea about Boesendorfer ? 54 mm in high treble is nice, usually !
Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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Are the NY Steinway D's have the same scale than the Hamburg ones ? Yes. At least on paper The S scale is a bit of an anomaly - the speaking length is 54 mm. The other models are all 49 mm, except for the C and D which are 50 mm. As I understand it, Steinway grands are in low tension scale area, except for the high tension models C and D. The S is a bit of a separate animal; some might say a nice piece of Steinway furniture. I have heard that Jurgen. Interestingly, I rebuilt an S action a year ago with Steinway Parts. With thoughtful voicing, this S is truly a nice instrument. I am keeping an open mind on this one.
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that is there one need a very good bass string maker as there are the difficulties.
Last edited by Olek; 02/09/13 07:39 AM.
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One can assume that the speaking lengths of longer pianos are not shorter than those of shorter pianos. It is sufficient to know that the speaking length is not longer and the gauge is thicker to know that the tension is higher.
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You know, all of this talk about certain words being used including the word "virgin" reminded me of this. And, there is nothing wrong with the terminology in American English.
Did you know that we have Virgin Pine Tree's in Michigan? Yep, we have them! It is called Hartwick Pines which is about 30 miles from my cottage where we have lots of snow and Virgin Pine Trees. They are huge and they are beautiful! Look up Hartwick Pines sometime. I've been there many times. It's a great place to visit.
Jerry Groot RPT Piano Technicians Guild Grand Rapids, Michigan www.grootpiano.comWe love to play BF2.
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Last year I tuned at a ranch where they produce extra virgin olive oil!
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Has anyone ever been to the V**g*n Islands? Do they have pianos there?
Eric Gloo
Piano Technician
Certified Dampp-Chaser Installer
Richfield Springs, New York
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