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#2035793 - 02/19/13 11:06 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5223
Loc: Europe
Here's a thought:

If we agree that a person needs sex in their life (regardless if it's a male or a female), then given some specific situations they are bound to develop some (occasional and in regards to the specific situation) tendencies...

Church is one instance, were females are not exactly equal.
Jail is another instance, were homosexuality, as far as I know thrives.
Same sex high schools, seem to also have similar problems, though not as advanced (though old man just mentioned this, so I'm not too sure it's not as advanced after all).


We do need to differentiate between the necessary sexual activity, the sexual activity and sexual preferences. Someone mentioned it a couple of pages ago, but it's worth repeating!
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#2035801 - 02/19/13 11:13 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3728
Loc: Bay Area, CA
It used to be the case that if a thread digressed on non-music topics for a long time, it was shut down. And if it was at all offensive or politically/culturally incendiary, it was shut down all the sooner. With the idea that there are other places on the internet for such discussions.

I wonder if there's been a change in philosophy on the part of the moderators?

I think I'm already starting to see the baleful influence of this thread on others. Irrelevant hot-topic cultural references are on the rise.


-Jason
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Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

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#2035802 - 02/19/13 11:16 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 853
Loc: UK, Brighton
I'm sorry Nikolas...but "necessary" sexual activity?
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#2035804 - 02/19/13 11:18 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Irrelevant?

Hrrumph.

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#2035805 - 02/19/13 11:20 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: FSO]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5223
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: FSO
I'm sorry Nikolas...but "necessary" sexual activity?
I said that "If we agree that a person needs sex in their life".

"Necessary sex" I mean when someone is forced to have sex with someone they under normal circumstances wouldn't want to.

Take for example paid sex...
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#2035806 - 02/19/13 11:20 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Nikolas]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Same sex high schools, seem to also have similar problems, though not as advanced (though old man just mentioned this, so I'm not too sure it's not as advanced after all).

This was not just a same-sex high school. We lived there 24x7, except for Christmas holiday and summers. Couldn't step outside the 105 acre campus, or you were subject to expulsion. So this was a true "lock down". And that's what made it more "advanced". smile

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#2035807 - 02/19/13 11:21 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Old Man]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5223
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Old Man
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Same sex high schools, seem to also have similar problems, though not as advanced (though old man just mentioned this, so I'm not too sure it's not as advanced after all).

This was not just a same-sex high school. We lived there 24x7, except for Christmas holiday and summers. Couldn't step outside the 105 acre campus, or you were subject to expulsion. So this was a true "lock down". And that's what made it more "advanced". smile
Ah... so pretty much a jail then... :-/ Ok... That's more clear!
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#2035808 - 02/19/13 11:22 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Diane...]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2600
Loc: Manchester, UK
Originally Posted By: Diane...
Originally Posted By: theJourney
. . . just like for my grandfather,


Well, . . . lucky for YOU . . . he wasn't gay!

Just sayin' grin



Gay people have children. In fact, if you were gay in the time that my grandfather was a young man, it was probably quite likely that you would.


Edited by debrucey (02/19/13 11:28 AM)

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#2035811 - 02/19/13 11:26 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2600
Loc: Manchester, UK
Some form of sex is 'necessary' in the sense that our urge for it is instinctive and suppressing it can be psychologically harmful. Not necessary in the same way that breathing is of course.

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#2035812 - 02/19/13 11:29 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: debrucey]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1194
Loc: London UK
Yup. That line worked for me too :-)

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#2035818 - 02/19/13 11:38 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Diane...]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Diane...
Originally Posted By: theJourney
. . . just like for my grandfather,


Well, . . . lucky for YOU . . . he wasn't gay!

Just sayin' grin



How would you know?

Homosexuals can be racist too you see.

I suppose we will never know if he was also gay.

It was quite common in that day and age for people to be forced to spend their entire lives living a lie...

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#2035847 - 02/19/13 12:38 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
asthecrowflies Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/12
Posts: 122
Loc: London, Cambridge, San Francis...
In an attempt to bring this thread back to relevance... how about some amazing performances by some illustrious homos:

Pletnev (borrowed from another thread):


Hough being kinda-sorta-gay:


And a classic double homo performance:
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Currently working on: Bach Partita 4, English Suite 2, Toccata d-minor, Chopin-op 10/1, Schubert Impromptus

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#2035854 - 02/19/13 12:55 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2600
Loc: Manchester, UK
I was under the impression that Pletnev is a paedophile...

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#2035855 - 02/19/13 12:57 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1194
Loc: London UK
Not to mention the arch-homo;
http://youtu.be/dioRwB4RvrQ

and one FOR the homos:
http://youtu.be/T_kJFFhN8mo

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#2035889 - 02/19/13 01:57 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5223
Loc: Europe
YAY for Greek external organs! grin
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#2035891 - 02/19/13 02:04 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Nikolas]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2600
Loc: Manchester, UK
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
YAY for Greek external organs! grin


I think they tend to be rather on the small side :P

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#2035928 - 02/19/13 03:23 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Exalted Wombat]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
Well, churches don't pay property tax and they run bingos and all sorts of musical events, jazz, sufi dances, election and polling stations, teen dances in small town where the teenages hid their liquor in parking lot! With the high cost of daycare at $50 per child per day in Canada, every church there seems to be running daycares and ESL courses. I am just saying; I take no issue. Property taxes in western Canada runs 3 to 4 thousand at least per year for a average community sized lot - ie church lot.

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#2035934 - 02/19/13 03:30 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Nikolas]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
Jail is another instance, were homosexuality, as far as I know thrives.

Situational homosexuality exists eveywhere, jail, military, isolated mining camps, remote religous retreats, I guess anywhere men work and live where women are non-existent.


Edited by Michael_99 (02/19/13 05:08 PM)

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#2035938 - 02/19/13 03:41 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: debrucey]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
Gay people have children. In fact, if you were gay in the time that my grandfather was a young man, it was probably quite likely that you would.

Yes, it was common, and still is to marry a women and have guys on the side. I have known Indian parents to tell their gay sons to go to India and get a wife and bring her back.

Isn't that what choice is all about, you choose to marry a wife then at 40 you decide to come out and divorce your wife and partner up with a young man your oldest son's age, you being 40 and the young man is 23. Plenty of example of that. Middleaged women don't take it well trying finding a second husband after having 3 kids and looking for a job after the divorce,


Edited by Michael_99 (02/19/13 05:05 PM)

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#2035994 - 02/19/13 05:03 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
You can't compare being fat to being gay (no offence).

I weighed 240, pure fat at 58 - got guys to teach me baskeball
and played eventually play 4 times a week. I wasn't good when you start at 58, but I "ran in circles" on the court and now weight 150-160. As an aside, my blood pressure is way down - so weightloss can help.

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#2036076 - 02/19/13 08:01 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Michael_99]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7767
Originally Posted By: Michael_99
Gay people have children. In fact, if you were gay in the time that my grandfather was a young man, it was probably quite likely that you would.

Yes, it was common, and still is to marry a women and have guys on the side. I have known Indian parents to tell their gay sons to go to India and get a wife and bring her back.

Isn't that what choice is all about, you choose to marry a wife then at 40 you decide to come out and divorce your wife and partner up with a young man your oldest son's age, you being 40 and the young man is 23. Plenty of example of that. Middleaged women don't take it well trying finding a second husband after having 3 kids and looking for a job after the divorce,


In the US, around half of all marriages end in divorce - I suspect that not all of them involve guys who have figured out they are gay after being married for a while. In fact, I think it is fairly atypical. And, of course, women can and do initiate divorces for various reasons, too (including figuring out they are lesbian), which can be just as devastating to the husband as a divorce can be to a wife.

Of the divorces that do involve a gay man, I don't see any strong pattern of the guy hooking up with a much younger guys afterwards. I can think of four guys I've known over the years who realized they were gay after being married and having children, and only one seemed to have a particular interest in guys younger the he was (but they weren't nearly as young as his son, BTW). I also used to know one gay guy (who happened to be a fairly well-known concert pianist and teacher) who had a "convenience marriage" with a lesbian. They had a child, and amicably separated after the child was fully grown.

So, no, I don't think your description of it is particularly what choice is all about.

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#2036081 - 02/19/13 08:27 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13764
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I think I'll close this down now. I think the original topic (whatever it was) has been pretty well exhausted. The character of the current discussion is probably more appropriate for a forum on GLBT social issues.

Meanwhile, there's a new post on Bach that's definitely appropriate for a piano forum. That thread has only 10 replies. This one has 411.
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"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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