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#2026814 - 02/04/13 10:11 AM Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: pianoloverus]
Hunt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 36
I thank each and everyone for his/her opinion. I stirred up quite a lot of attention on this one. As I said in my original post everytime I have posted on this forum the feedback has been great. A favorite story of mine is the 1st time I posted on here several years back asking about an old upright that I found at an estate sale that had a beautiful case but, needed a lot of work. It was not even playable.

The responses were: put it on the curb, take it outside and put a match to it, and so on. It was classic but, I didn't buy it either. From that time I have had 3 grands (not 9 footers) ending with my current 7' Y/C which I really love.

The store that has this piano is the store I bought the Young Chang from. They are an excellent music store with an extensive rebuilding department. They do top notch work. They guaranteed the Y/C for 1 year and will guarantee the 9' for 2 years. My piano technician, who used to rebuild pianos for this same music store I called the other day and asked him to keep his nose in the middle of it. He no longer works as a technician there but,he contracts out for the store to do work at people's homes. Thus, how I found him. Plus he is a heck of a pianist. He has a group called the Tony Thomas Trio.

To what extent the work is that will be done to this piano that is yet to be seen.

I like the idea of buying it as is and having someone like my technician do the work to it.

On the sd6 or sd10 discussion I don't know yet which it is but, I will certainly find out.

So, it is not a done deal yet I just have to see how the stars line up. Thanks again for the feedback and anymore is always appreciated.

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#2026877 - 02/04/13 12:24 PM Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: Hunt]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Hi Hunt,

If it was indeed built in the mid to late 60's, it would be an SD-10. Despite the nitpicking and naysayers, it is a very fine piano. (IMNSHO)

Let us know how you decide to proceed.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2029063 - 02/07/13 11:43 PM Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: Hunt]
John Pels Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 1263
Loc: Tomball, Texas
Hmmm...pretty tough crowd! As I always tend to opine, evaluate each piano on its merits and act accordingly. I owned and rebuilt a 1912 D Baldwin. It was a wonderful instrument. I have played tons of SD6's, and most were marvelous. I have high hopes for a rebuild of an SD10 I presently own. I just find it too hard to dismiss out of hand any of the Baldwin 9 footers because of some perceived deficiencies or anomalies. My feeling is that if you can't get happy with an SD10, it's likely not the piano.

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#2029087 - 02/08/13 12:50 AM Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: John Pels]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6424
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: John Pels
My feeling is that if you can't get happy with an SD10, it's likely not the piano.

thumb thumb thumb
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#2029154 - 02/08/13 04:44 AM Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: John Pels]
beethoven986 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3360
Originally Posted By: John Pels
My feeling is that if you can't get happy with an SD10, it's likely not the piano.


I've played a lot of 9' pianos that I absolutely hated.... and it wasn't me. Certainly an SD-10 can be great, but they often need quite a bit of help to get there, especially if they've spent the last 50 years as a university piano.
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M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
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#2029155 - 02/08/13 04:53 AM Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: Minnesota Marty]
beethoven986 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3360
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Despite the nitpicking and naysayers, it is a very fine piano. (IMNSHO)


I don't think anyone here denies that the SD-10 has a lot of potential. The concerns that have been expressed relate to the fact that this is a 50 year old university piano of unknown condition and fuzzy details about work to be done on it for a final sale price of $20,000.... an amount that will almost certainly not be enough to cover everything the piano needs to reach its full potential (keep in mind the dealer probably had to pay somewhere between $5,000-$10,000 for it to begin with). Since the OP already has a piano that he loves, he absolutely should be nitpicking.... this is a huge commitment, one that will be difficult to get rid of if he falls victim to buyer's remorse.
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M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
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#2029282 - 02/08/13 12:42 PM Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: beethoven986]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2745
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
keep in mind the dealer probably had to pay somewhere between $5,000-$10,000 for it to begin with
I'm pretty sure it would be sub-$5k. I have an unrestored but playable SD6, post-University, and I'll sell it today for $5k. The cost is almost completely in the work performed. The value is completely in the outcome.
_________________________
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PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
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#2029437 - 02/08/13 06:16 PM Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: PianoWorksATL]
beethoven986 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3360
Originally Posted By: PianoWorksATL
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
keep in mind the dealer probably had to pay somewhere between $5,000-$10,000 for it to begin with
I'm pretty sure it would be sub-$5k. I have an unrestored but playable SD6, post-University, and I'll sell it today for $5k. The cost is almost completely in the work performed. The value is completely in the outcome.


You could very well be right. I was merely speculating. Since we don't know what condition it's in, I could see it just as easily be sub $5,000 as it could be $5,000-$10,000 though probably closer to $5,000. Either way, I think we agree that a $20,000 final price would probably not cover everything the piano needs to perform optimally.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2029615 - 02/09/13 01:35 AM Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: beethoven986]
John Pels Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 1263
Loc: Tomball, Texas


"I've played a lot of 9' pianos that I absolutely hated.... and it wasn't me. Certainly an SD-10 can be great, but they often need quite a bit of help to get there, especially if they've spent the last 50 years as a university piano."

I've played lots of brand new 9 footers on the showroom floor that were junk. I have yet to play any Baldwin D, SD6 or SD10 that I felt that way about. I'm not so much worried about the piano being up to the task as I am the performer. The other part of being a university piano that gets no airplay is the fact that they CAN be better maintained than any of the other pianos in an institutional setting. I don't know how many different sets of hammers nor how many regulations I saw for stage pianos during my college years, but I DO know that none of the practice pianos got any.

Doom and gloom is all I ever hear at PW. It can be such a depressing place. Play the danged piano and go from there. Not everything needs to be restrung, not everything needs a bridge recapped. A new set of hammers properly shaped and installed and a decent regulation will go far towards making any instrument play and sound fabulous. Heck, my own piano needs hammers and a regulation and I still love playing it every day just for the ever loving glory of doing so. She's a cruel mistress that beckons every time I walk by.

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#2029656 - 02/09/13 04:37 AM Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: John Pels]
beethoven986 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3360
Originally Posted By: John Pels
I've played lots of brand new 9 footers on the showroom floor that were junk. I have yet to play any Baldwin D, SD6 or SD10 that I felt that way about.


We have vastly different experiences, then (Baldwin in general). I've come across many of these Baldwins that sound like... harpsichords with a Mack truck feel. I think they can be great.... I chose an '80s SD-10 for my grad recitals over the house Steinway D, but they're often junk without divine intervention.

Originally Posted By: John Pels
I'm not so much worried about the piano being up to the task as I am the performer.


That's fine. I worry about both, and more to the point, I don't think the piano should impede music making, and all to often, it does just that!


Originally Posted By: John Pels
The other part of being a university piano that gets no airplay is the fact that they CAN be better maintained than any of the other pianos in an institutional setting. I don't know how many different sets of hammers nor how many regulations I saw for stage pianos during my college years, but I DO know that none of the practice pianos got any.


Universities vary widely with their piano policies. One of my alma maters had six Steinway Ds (four performance and two rehearsal) and all but one of them was probably used 10 hours a day and rather poor climate control. My second alma mater was almost tyrannical with hall use and good humidity control, and those pianos were indeed in great condition. Depending on how much work is done to this piano, it may not matter, but we can only speculate, so it is prudent to be cautious.

Originally Posted By: John Pels
Doom and gloom is all I ever hear at PW. It can be such a depressing place. Play the danged piano and go from there. Not everything needs to be restrung, not everything needs a bridge recapped. A new set of hammers properly shaped and installed and a decent regulation will go far towards making any instrument play and sound fabulous.


Well, of course. Sometimes, it's the simplest things that make all the difference. Back in December, my new SF-10 client wanted me to do something to make the piano easier to play. I polished and lubricated the pins/capstans, sized the key bushings, and Teflon coated the knuckles. No fancy Stanwood TD.... just basic prep. The client was floored with the difference.


Originally Posted By: John Pels
Heck, my own piano needs hammers and a regulation and I still love playing it every day just for the ever loving glory of doing so. She's a cruel mistress that beckons every time I walk by.


I'm glad you like yours. I need to call my tuner to come do some stuff to mine... oh, wait wink
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2029983 - 02/09/13 04:49 PM Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: beethoven986]
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 3341
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
Originally Posted By: John Pels
I've played lots of brand new 9 footers on the showroom floor that were junk. I have yet to play any Baldwin D, SD6 or SD10 that I felt that way about.


We have vastly different experiences, then (Baldwin in general). I've come across many of these Baldwins that sound like... harpsichords with a Mack truck feel. I think they can be great.... I chose an '80s SD-10 for my grad recitals over the house Steinway D, but they're often junk without divine intervention.


I have to strongly agree with Beethoven here. We see a lot of big Baldwin grands, 7' and 9', and just when we think we have seen the Baldwin that sets the record for most dysfunctional action ( always on the heavy side )we get another that beats it. I like the comparison to a harpsichord with a Mack truck feel, although they can make me think of tom toms. I also like the junk without divine intervention comment. These pianos can just be so wrong. No amount of regulating/removal of friction etc means anything. The problems go much deeper and must be corrected.
When they are correct, they can be wonderful. The design is not the problem.











_________________________
Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales of vintage and pre-owned Steinway and Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Charles R. Walter, Brodmann, Feurich
www.pianocraft.net
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keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460

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#2030178 - 02/10/13 12:02 AM Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: Hunt]
John Pels Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 1263
Loc: Tomball, Texas
Well, my SD10 spent a few days with Neptune down in new Orleans and has a more interesting tale to tell than likely the accumulated tales of woe of both 986 and Keith K. When it finally resurrects it should make for quite an epistle . Of course If I thought for a second that it would end up with a King Kong action or a less than ideal sound, I likely wouldn't put forth the effort. And YES it WILL need a new pinblock, and yes it WILL need a new bridge, and yes it WILL need some remedial work on the action, but that said, I might just rebuild the original Renner action because no one apparently makes a decent copy of the Schwander style wippens these days, and they are so much easier to regulate than anything else on the planet. I think that somehow, having the original action still functioning would be kind of neat.The soundboard is in pretty amazing condition despite the history. I only regret having to refinish the plate (which is covered with rust), because it was signed by some famous luminaries and local jazz players. I never intended to sell off my original "D" Baldwin, but I needed to buy some real-estate and something had to give. Hopefully the SD10 will fill those 1912 shoes.

Just trying to shake off all the never-ending doom and gloom here at PW.

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#2030202 - 02/10/13 01:13 AM Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: John Pels]
beethoven986 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3360
Originally Posted By: John Pels
Well, my SD10 spent a few days with Neptune down in new Orleans....



Well, as I said, these things are often junk without divine intervention. In this case, I'm interpreting it quite literally. grin



Originally Posted By: John Pels
and has a more interesting tale to tell than likely the accumulated tales of woe of both 986 and Keith K.


Do we really need to make this a contest? I'll slingshot mine into Lake Michigan (along with my car, but that's a different story).


Originally Posted By: John Pels
Of course If I thought for a second that it would end up with a King Kong action or a less than ideal sound, I likely wouldn't put forth the effort.


IMO, the end result is up to you!

Originally Posted By: John Pels
because no one apparently makes a decent copy of the Schwander style wippens these days, and they are so much easier to regulate than anything else on the planet.


Oh, come, now. Butterfly springs aren't that bad. That said, they are kind of annoying, aren't they?


Originally Posted By: John Pels
Just trying to shake off all the never-ending doom and gloom here at PW.


I won't speak for the others, but I'm guilty as charged, however, I won't apologize for it! It's a love-hate thing. As a fellow pianist, I'm sure you understand.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2030203 - 02/10/13 01:15 AM Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: Keith D Kerman]
beethoven986 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3360
Originally Posted By: Keith D Kerman
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
Originally Posted By: John Pels
I've played lots of brand new 9 footers on the showroom floor that were junk. I have yet to play any Baldwin D, SD6 or SD10 that I felt that way about.


We have vastly different experiences, then (Baldwin in general). I've come across many of these Baldwins that sound like... harpsichords with a Mack truck feel. I think they can be great.... I chose an '80s SD-10 for my grad recitals over the house Steinway D, but they're often junk without divine intervention.




I have to strongly agree with Beethoven here. We see a lot of big Baldwin grands, 7' and 9', and just when we think we have seen the Baldwin that sets the record for most dysfunctional action ( always on the heavy side )we get another that beats it. I like the comparison to a harpsichord with a Mack truck feel, although they can make me think of tom toms. I also like the junk without divine intervention comment. These pianos can just be so wrong. No amount of regulating/removal of friction etc means anything. The problems go much deeper and must be corrected.
When they are correct, they can be wonderful. The design is not the problem.






thumb thumb





_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2030687 - 02/10/13 05:39 PM Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: Hunt]
Hunt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 36
My goodness this has been going on for a while. Haven't looked at this post in a few days and was surprised to see so much activity.

I'll give you an update. Went by the store yesterday and the piano is still not set up yet. I have not yet gotten a really good look at it. They said they were going to set it up this week.

Maybe some of you guys missed this in my previous post but, this was a University that transitioned from Baldwin to Steinway. This was a huge trade for this school they traded in many many baldwins 2 of them being 9'. I highly doubt the music store has much in this piano. And, once again, I don't know and they don't know what is going to be done to it yet because it is in a storage room on its side.

So, that is the latest. I can tell you this. I love a really nice 9 footer but, this one is going to have to really send me when I play it or I will stick with the 7' y/c I have until I find the 9 footer of my dreams.

I take it from the feedback there are many stores out there that would do a slip shot job on an instrument like this. This store has been in business for more than 50 years and has the reputation for being one of the finest stores in the South. I don't have a doubt that the work that will be done to this piano will be of the utmost quality and by me going by and seeing what is going on and my technician having his nose in the middle of it we will know every detail of what is or is not being done.

By the way, I asked my technician if he would be interested in doing the work as someone posted earlier but, he declined. He doesn't have the time.

Will keep you updated.

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#2030723 - 02/10/13 06:42 PM Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: Hunt]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Hunt
... This store has been in business for more than 50 years and has the reputation for being one of the finest stores in the South. I don't have a doubt that the work that will be done to this piano will be of the utmost quality and by me going by and seeing what is going on and my technician having his nose in the middle of it we will know every detail of what is or is not being done. ...
A good retail store does not make a good rebuilder. There are many excellent stores and dealers out there that do not have a real rebuilding workshop or even technicians on staff who can do this kind of work. It is good to hear that in your situation this doesn't seem to be the case.
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