Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Tuning of a Steinway, model D grand

Anyhow, all the best to you Mr. Davis.

Jean

That is one interpretation. This is not the appropriate place for such statements.

Intellectual seems to be something that is absent in the response.

This is Mark’s thread and he will make the decisions as to what content he desires.

Perhaps pool all of your consideration into one place, as Mark has politely asked, if there is nothing beneficial to add the topic.

That is one interpretation. This is not the appropriate place for such statements.

Intellectual seems to be something that is absent in the response.

This is Mark’s thread and he will make the decisions as to what content he desires.

Perhaps pool all of your consideration into one place, as Mark has politely asked, if there is nothing beneficial to add the topic.

Is this true? I am pretty sure that Steinways are generally low tension scales, but I don't know about D's specifically.

Longer strings have higher tensions. Thicker strings have higher tensions. Longer pianos almost always have longer and thicker strings.

1st premise -- longer strings higher tension for a given pitch: Correct
2nd premise -- thicker strings higher tension for a given pitch: Correct.

Conclusion-- Longer pianos almost always have longer and thicker strings (and therefore have higher tension): Incorrect.

They may be longer but are not necessarily thicker. Bass strings on a 9' piano will always be significantly thinner than on a spinet. String lengths from c-52 up to c-88 on a 9' piano won't be much different from on a 45" upright.

There are 4 basic styles of stringing scales . . .
short scale/low tension
short scale/high tension
long scale/low tension
long scale high tension

Scaling style is not governed by the length of piano. For example, S&S "D" has a shorter scale (and lower tension) than the Kawai GS 100 scale which is a long scale/high tension scale. Both are 9' pianos, but that model of Kawai has a much higher tension scale.

No, it's not true.

<<Longer strings have higher tensions. Thicker strings have higher tensions. Longer pianos almost always have longer and thicker strings.- BDB>>

Dear BDB,

Uh....no? That set of statements is incorrect. Next time you look at a 9-ft Steinway I invite you to look at the lowest wound strings on the piano. Because they are soooooooo long, they do not need to be heavier! They are, in fact, much lighter. Not double-wound. Not high tension. Compared to a spinet at C1... a D's C1 is less than 1/2 the diameter of those stiff, inflexible, and unmusical hunks of copperplated junk in a Winter spinet. They are lighter and thinner in a large grand because the length provides the weight that shorter pianos must imitate with heavier strings. The opposite of your statement.

Higher tension? Uh...no again. I let the remark go by in an earlier post, because a 9-ft does have significantly more tension overall. But that is because there are simply more strings in the piano! The triple-plain wire unisons extend much further down the scale. That's why concert grands can get up near 60-70,000 lbs. of tension. But the wire is NOT thicker or heavier for any given note. The opposite is true, sir. In fact, concert grands generally use a lighter wire than an upright or spinet for any given note; because they can use the LENGTH of the piano instead of the WEIGHT of a shorter thicker string.

These are basic facts, BDB. Honest.

Surprised,
I am,

What part of "almost always" do you not understand?

Even if there are a very few strings on a large piano that are thinner than the corresponding strings on a small piano, if that resulted in lower tension overall, there would be a tremendous unbalance between the tension on the lowest plain strings and the highest wound strings, which would be difficult, if not impossible to overcome by voicing. I can probably dig up some concert grand bass string dimensions that would show that there is greater tension on them than there is on the comparable notes of a smaller piano, but you could do this yourself. I am sure that you have not.

Firstly, as i understand it, OMG in general stands for Oh My God which is profanity.

Secondly, Gerry, your statement is false and has no weight.I do take exception to Martys use of inaproriate and unnecessary language. It is simply out of place and unacceptable.

Thirdly, Marty, you continue to make shameful and unsavoury comments. Have you no decency?

Fourthly, is it not against forum rules to write offensive and vulgar language?

There is a "Notify" button at the bottom of each post. Anyone can use it to alert the moderator's attention to a post which is inappropriate for any reason.

Well, not really. Maybe comparing a concert grand to a spinet is a bit of a stretch. If you compare the notes within the Steinway instrument family, you will find that large instruments indeed have larger string gauges in the plain wire sections. Even compared to their uprights, the string gauges of the larger grands are on the heavy side.

note 23 (G)
Model:.........gauge (German wire gauges)
B...............19
C............... 20
D ............... 21


note 35 (G)
Model: .......... gauge
S ............... 17
M ............... 17.5
O ............... 17
A ............... 18
B ............... 18
C ............... 19
D ............... 19

Higher up the differences diminish, but the C and D scale still have larger gauges, right up through note 88.

source: Max Mathias: "Steinway Service Manual"

I have published stringing scales for Kawai and Baldwin grands, and they are similar to Steinway in that regard. Longer pianos may have one or two notes where they are thinner gauge than smaller pianos, but the trend is that longer pianos have the same or larger gauge wire.

Thanks Jurgen for bringing the notify button to my attention.

I am away at the moment and i am using my phone to check in and post, and the whole process is time consuming and a bit more costly as it uses up my air time. So i am battling to stay in touch and tune with the thread.

So thanks to all who have made good and helpful contributions.

Thank you,

Mark, is this tuning for a specific performance or is it a maintenance tuning?

If it is a specific performance, see if you can get to hear it or at least the rehearsal.

That will teach you a lot.

Well, not really. Maybe comparing a concert grand to a spinet is a bit of a stretch.-Jurgen

Dear Jurgen,

Apologies! I should have said; "Any given bass note". One of the huge advantages to the sound and power of the concert instruments is the sheer length of the instrument. And I was, of course, purposely using the most extreme example the came quickly to mind. D vs. Winter spinet!

Smiling,
I am,
Off to tune a Model-4,
And a 'B',
(Yesterday was the Winter and an Aeolian Chickering),

Mark,

Now that I take offense too. My statement is not false in my case. I'll kindly ask you not to call me a liar. Personally, I do NOT say OH MY GOD!!! I hate that saying. I always have. It is used far to often. I say; "oh my gosh." Or, Geez, So do many others.

2ndly, I am not trying to offend you, I merely said it how I read it.

I think this is a good place to drop it now.

Marc, if you tune electronically, there well be less difference, as the machine will compensate for you. If you tune by ear, you are in for a treat, especially if it's a nice D with lots of overtones. Have confidence, and treat the tuning as if you have tuned 100 of them before. At some point in your career, you will have tuned 100 of them, if you lean towards concert or university work. Don't over-think it. It's just another tuning. You will remember this tuning fondly years from now. You will do just fine.

Greetings,
I don't think additional tri-chords will require that much more tension, but I have a factory listing of tension in the Steinway pianos and it lists the D as having approx. 45,000 lbs. The D uses a 13 1/2 wire at the top, the S uses a 12 1/2.
Regards,

Boy, what a shame. This thread had the potential to get interesting. No one even had the chance to mention inharmonicity and how it relates to wire gauge.