Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 5 of 14 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 13 14 >
Topic Options
#2029751 - 02/09/13 09:02 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 853
Loc: UK, Brighton
I was going to reference that! laugh Nice first post by the way...and welcome, if you're new.
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

Top
(ad) Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2029752 - 02/09/13 09:02 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: debrucey]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: debrucey
The 100m final at the olympics shows otherwise. Sure, it takes hard work and dedication to become a world class sprinter, but if you happen to have been born male and of African descent then you're at an advantage.


This is a salient point.

Thus far we have discussed four principal hypothoses for the apparent proponderance of gay master pianists:

1. Those that are gay feel more comfortable being in the arts and out in the arts and/or felt attracted to the piano.

2. Because they are flamboyant or because it is unusual for pianists to be homosexual we develop a false perceptional bias that there is a preponderance.

3. The psycho-social challenges of growing up gay make some take to piano practice as a refuge or to later avoid confrontation and troubles in many discriminatory professions and to avoid becoming a priest, hairdresser or flower arranger.

4. The unique, psycho-social adversity of growing up gay makes some precociously consciously aware and sensitive which translates into longer term advantage in playing the piano.

A fifth reason may be:

5. There are physical differences in the makeup of homosexual men ('s brains) which provide them with long term advantage in going far with the piano.

We know that there are differences between male and female brains:

Quote:

Men's brains tend to perform tasks predominantly with the left-side, which is the logical/rational side of the brain. Women, on the other hand, use both sides of their brains because a woman's brain has a larger corpus callosum, which means women can transfer data between the right and left hemispheres faster than men.


We also know that -- as an integrative art -- successful piano performance requires a unique integration of ratio and emotio and integration within the brain and between the brain and the body. Young males who start early piano practice tend to grow a larger corpus collosum, while females, who already have larger ones, tend to achieve less marked differentiation from piano study.
http://www.musicianbrain.com/papers/Hyde_MusicTraining_BrainPlasticity_nyas_04852.pdf

We also know from research of the Dutch neuroscientist Dick Swaab that there are physical differences between the brains of homosexual men and heterosexual men, and these differences are formed already in the uterus.

Quote:

Current evidence indicates that sexual differentiation of the human brain occurs during fetal and neonatal development and programs our gender identity—our feeling of being male or female and our sexual orientation as hetero-, homo-, or bisexual. This sexual differentiation process is accompanied by many structural and functional brain differences among these groups... the Savic laboratory detected a sex-differentiated activation of the anterior hypothalamus in heterosexual men (HeM) and heterosexual women (HeW) and a sex-atypical, almost reversed, pattern of activation in homosexual men (HoM) and homosexual women (HoW). The hypothalamus (Fig. 1) is a small brain area located under the anterior commissure that is involved in many different functions

http://www.pnas.org/content/105/30/10273.full

How many other differences there may be of which we are not aware is unknown. However, this one would not seem to be trivial given the fact that musical performance is a temporal art form where micro timing differences can make all the difference in the world:

Quote:

In 1990, we described the first brain difference related to sexual orientation in the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN)—the brain's “clock”—which in homosexual men is twice the size that it is in heterosexual men...


Edited by theJourney (02/09/13 09:14 AM)
Edit Reason: completeness

Top
#2029758 - 02/09/13 09:07 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: theJourney]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4762
Loc: USA
Quote:

We also know from research of the Dutch neuroscientist Dick Swaab...




That's too good.

Top
#2029760 - 02/09/13 09:13 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: JoelW]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: JoelW
...the majority of women are better musicians.


I'd agree with that.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
#2029762 - 02/09/13 09:17 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: zapper]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: zapper

what happened with right to free speech in this country...


Which country would that be?
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
#2029764 - 02/09/13 09:18 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: stores]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: JoelW
...the majority of women are better musicians.


I'd agree with that.


Well, what I will say is that -- despite the depressing dearth -- some of my favorite master pianists are indeed women...

Top
#2029765 - 02/09/13 09:18 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: stores]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4762
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: zapper

what happened with right to free speech in this country...


Which country would that be?


Here, as opposed to there.

Top
#2029767 - 02/09/13 09:21 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: JoelW]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: zapper

what happened with right to free speech in this country...


Which country would that be?


Here, as opposed to there.


If, that is, you reside in the same country as zapper.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
#2029768 - 02/09/13 09:22 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: theJourney]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: JoelW
...the majority of women are better musicians.


I'd agree with that.


some of my favorite master pianists are indeed women...


Ditto.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
#2029769 - 02/09/13 09:23 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
Check out our Eric Satie, themed recital! Can you spot the 2 gays lol wink

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1993720/1/Erik%20Satie%20Themed%20Recital.html

We all had the same amount of time to learn our pieces, and are all at different levels smile


Edited by wayne33yrs (02/09/13 09:24 AM)

Top
#2029775 - 02/09/13 09:29 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1075
Stephen Hough is gay? Who would have thought? He doesn't act gay on stage. For that matter, Horowitz didn't act gay, and I sat about 15 feet away from him on stage for one of his concerts. Neither did Richter, but that was way back in the 60s and maybe I was too young or innocent to notice.

Perhaps if they put a sign on stage that said GAY PERFORMER, that would clarify these things. It might have helped when Richter, Gilels and Berman came over to the US if they had a sign that said CAUTION: COMMUNIST ON STAGE. Everyone would have known where these men stood politically. Or would we? They could have walked off stage and asked for political asylum, and some Soviet artists did. Sometimes, putting labels on artists doesn't help things.

Does anyone else feel this whole thread is getting silly? Do people honestly go to concerts by pianists and spend their time thinking about the sexual orientation of the performer? Even if a gay artist has suffered from a lifetime of repression, and is expressing that emotion in his playing, how are you, the listener, going to know this? All of us receive the emotional content of great music and notable performances in different ways, pertinent to our own lives, and only secondarily if at all do we think about the life of the performer (as in the case of someone like Geoffrey Helfgott). Probably the gayest pianist of them all, Liberace, understood this. As camped up as his costumes were, when it came to playing the piano, he made people forget about all that and just enjoy the music. I think it would be best all around if we just enjoyed the music of the many excellent pianists performing today, and not spend our time wondering what they are doing in their private lives.

Top
#2029781 - 02/09/13 09:35 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2600
Loc: Manchester, UK
How is Liberace the gayest pianist of them all?

Top
#2029782 - 02/09/13 09:37 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 853
Loc: UK, Brighton
It's just discussion...it does no harm and, as such, can only be a good thing..right? Besides...when I hear music that fills me with love I may very well just happen to love the performer; I'm interested in those I love and can find even the dullest fact satisfying...so...um...would it be best if I just didn't think about those I love?
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

Top
#2029785 - 02/09/13 09:45 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: debrucey]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4762
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: debrucey
How is Liberace the gayest pianist of them all?


I think he just meant ''most flamboyant'' which is definitely true.

Top
#2029787 - 02/09/13 09:46 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Numerian]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Numerian
I think it would be best all around if we just enjoyed the music of the many excellent pianists performing today, and not spend our time wondering what they are doing in their private lives.


Indeed. Those pesky gays should go crawl back into their holes or step back into the darkness of their closet. Only if they have a trophy wife on their arm should they have the nerve to rub our noses in the details of their private lives.

Wonder why for centuries and still today that there is such a lively market in (auto)biographies from Josquin to Lang Lang if no one is really interested in the lives of great artists?

Top
#2029788 - 02/09/13 09:54 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: debrucey]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: debrucey
How is Liberace the gayest pianist of them all?


Since when is Liberace considered a classical master pianist? It is like putting another Las Vegas performer such as Tom Jones on the same list as Pavarotti...

Top
#2029789 - 02/09/13 10:00 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1075
There are several threads in the archives about Liberace, in which his technical and artistic skills are discussed. It will always be a matter of opinion as to how good a pianist he was.

Top
#2029790 - 02/09/13 10:01 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2600
Loc: Manchester, UK
Liberace was a hugely talented classical pianist actually. He just became famous for doing something else.

Top
#2029795 - 02/09/13 10:09 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: theJourney]
zapper Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/13
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: Numerian
I think it would be best all around if we just enjoyed the music of the many excellent pianists performing today, and not spend our time wondering what they are doing in their private lives.


Indeed. Those pesky gays should go crawl back into their holes or step back into the darkness of their closet. Only if they have a trophy wife on their arm should they have the nerve to rub our noses in the details of their private lives.

Wonder why for centuries and still today that there is such a lively market in (auto)biographies from Josquin to Lang Lang if no one is really interested in the lives of great artists?


only little people are interested in someone else closet life...

Top
#2029799 - 02/09/13 10:14 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada


Originally Posted By: zapper

only little people are interested in someone else closet life...


Correct; it is the prurient fixation with things that are of no concern.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

Top
#2029800 - 02/09/13 10:16 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Numerian]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Numerian
Stephen Hough is gay? Who would have thought? He doesn't act gay on stage.


What do you mean exactly?
Are you sure?


Originally Posted By: Numerian

Perhaps if they put a sign on stage that said GAY PERFORMER, that would clarify these things. It might have helped when Richter, Gilels and Berman came over to the US if they had a sign that said CAUTION: COMMUNIST ON STAGE.


Interesting thought.

You could write entire books about the impact that composing and performing under the oppressive psycho-social contradictions that the communist regime had on Dimitri Shostakovich and what his real political persuasions were versus what was expedient. In fact, several books have been written on the subject. They are perhaps not so different from those of a closeted gay growing up under the oppressive contradictions of a straight society, that until very recently and only in a tiny fraction of the world, criminalized and demonized those who were bold enough to expose the truth about their human identity.

Top
#2029802 - 02/09/13 10:19 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: zapper]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Judge and condemn much?

Originally Posted By: zapper
only little people are interested in someone else closet life...


And if they are interested in someone else's non-closeted life?

Are all those people who read biographies of Mozart or Richter per definition " little people" ?

Top
#2029804 - 02/09/13 10:32 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 853
Loc: UK, Brighton
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos


Originally Posted By: zapper

only little people are interested in someone else closet life...


Correct; it is the prurient fixation with things that are of no concern.

Well...I'll agree it may be rude to pry, but I thought most of the pianists disclosed their sexuality at one point or another. Oh...and let's not bring dwarfism into this mess laugh Of course, stating that it's prurient is entirely tautologous, but of no concern? I'm sure it was a great concern to those involved and, as those interested in music and its history, shouldn't that which concerns the titans of the discipline concern us too? I mean, um, do you indulge no curiosity? Do you hear of Scriabin's madness and just say "that's irrelevant with regard to the technical aspects of his compositions; do not tire me with details of his life, he is nothing but a vessel for my enjoyment, I don't care about him or anything he thinks now, please, tell me more about the spelling of that accidental..."... laugh Sorry, but, um, I can't imagine you're not a tiny bit interested in the influences (and by extension, lifestyles) of pianists and composers. If you aren't then forgive me and your point is fair enough for you but quite a lot of the rest of us care about *how* music is made, down to the finest detail.
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

Top
#2029809 - 02/09/13 10:43 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1438
Loc: Australia
I often feel gay, but am not a homosexual.

Please give us our language back. frown
_________________________
Rob

Top
#2029814 - 02/09/13 10:52 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2600
Loc: Manchester, UK
R0B is the name of a gay sex shop in Manchester lol, how ironic.

Top
#2029826 - 02/09/13 11:09 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: debrucey]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1438
Loc: Australia
I didn't notice it when I was in Manchester, three weeks ago.
But nothing would surprise me anymore ha
_________________________
Rob

Top
#2029835 - 02/09/13 11:24 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
exellent! smile


Top
#2029837 - 02/09/13 11:24 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2600
Loc: Manchester, UK
It's not on the high street haha

Top
#2029846 - 02/09/13 11:51 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: stores]
wower Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 242
Loc: Calgary
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: JoelW
...the majority of women are better musicians.


I'd agree with that.


some of my favorite master pianists are indeed women...


Ditto.


I was telling my girlfriend some months ago of this exact fact and she just rolled her eyes at me.
_________________________
Bad spellers of the world untie!

Top
#2029851 - 02/09/13 11:58 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos

Originally Posted By: zapper

only little people are interested in someone else closet life...

Correct; it is the prurient fixation with things that are of no concern.

Is this thread one of your own "prurient fixations"? You made your thoughts known to us two days ago, but you seem unable to resist making them known again. I respect your opinion, but what is the point? There are thousands of threads that should be more to your liking, so why waste time repeatedly identifying the fixations of us "little people"?

I would point out that this thread is less than 40 hours old, and has already garnered 2500 views and 150 replies. That is an amazing amount of traffic, so obviously there is interest in the topic. (Yes, yes, I'm sure it's all "prurient".) But I have to say that the thread has remained relatively on-topic, serious and thoughtful, and has not devolved into the sort of lewd snicker-fest that some may have feared.

You say the topic is not important, it doesn't matter, it's none of our concern, and you're right. But what thread does matter, and is important? Look through the list. I see nothing. Most of the topics in this forum are born of curiosity, and nothing more. Most discussions are of the have-you-ever-noticed variety, exactly like the personal conversations that people engage in all the time.

When you're unhappy at the party you're at, simply find a different party. It's not that difficult.

Top
Page 5 of 14 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 13 14 >

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
Our latest Issue is available now...
Piano News - Interesting & Fun Piano Related Newsletter! (free)
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
72 registered (a-z0-9, angga888, Atrys, AndrewJCW, barmassimo, 21 invisible), 1159 Guests and 16 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75569 Members
42 Forums
156242 Topics
2294622 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Will a Damp-Chaser fill in the cracks in a sound-board?
by Paul678
Today at 12:36 AM
The Mason & Hamlin Tension Resonator: Help or Hype???
by Paul678
Today at 12:06 AM
What piano do i have?
by allana
Yesterday at 11:43 PM
Moving to Intermediate Level
by Gisele
Yesterday at 11:15 PM
Mixer
by doremi
Yesterday at 10:48 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission