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#1700967 - 06/24/11 02:27 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: Scott Coletta]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta
So here's my work in progress on Naima...


I think I like the idea of keeping the Eb and Bb pedals consistent throughout... kind of like a drone effect. But I'm not sure. What do you guys think?

http://www.box.net/shared/jnvvr3x11m9r7lqms6nd


I like this, Scott. The drone/ostinato works well, and you really pull off the consistency, especially when you get the 'middle hands' going at the same time as the melody and bass at around the 40 second mark. This is something I always like to work on, so it's nice to hear someone else doing it so well.

I also like how you get around the different scales and modes, especially bar 3 and it's later equivalent.

Too bad you cut it off before the finish. Maybe another take with the coda next time?

Keep it up!
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Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#1700968 - 06/24/11 02:31 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted By: beeboss
So I had a go at it as well. I don't really know the tune well so there are some errors in the tune. I did more of a kind of theme and variations approach just exploring some different ideas. Some work better than others I think. Its easy to tell when I listen back.


http://www.divshare.com/download/15162500-152


Nice as always, Beeboss. The interesting thing about your comment about the errors in the tune is that I'm pretty certain most people would not know which errors you may be referring to, and that they'd think of them as playing an alternate scale/chord at those points.

Also, the strummed string stuff reminds me of Jessica Williams. Are you familiar with her?
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Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#1701019 - 06/24/11 06:30 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: scepticalforumguy]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1171
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: scepticalforumguy
Originally Posted By: beeboss
So I had a go at it as well. I don't really know the tune well so there are some errors in the tune. I did more of a kind of theme and variations approach just exploring some different ideas. Some work better than others I think. Its easy to tell when I listen back.


http://www.divshare.com/download/15162500-152


Nice as always, Beeboss. The interesting thing about your comment about the errors in the tune is that I'm pretty certain most people would not know which errors you may be referring to, and that they'd think of them as playing an alternate scale/chord at those points.

Also, the strummed string stuff reminds me of Jessica Williams. Are you familiar with her?


Thanks Sceptical, the error that jumps out at me is that I got one of the notes in the melody wrong each time. I was reading the melody from a mini real book without my glasses, that is my excuse. But there was one chord that sounded like it might be a misprint (last chord in b section) but as I was already playing it I couldn't check with a recording.

No I am not that familiar with Jessica Williams, but I just found her on youtube and was enjoying it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKL9PNH982A&feature=related
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http://www.youtube.com/davebeeboss

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#1701166 - 06/24/11 11:17 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: scepticalforumguy]
Scott Coletta Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/11
Posts: 514
Loc: Chicago
Thanks scep for your comments on my Naima. I just didn't finish because I'm really not that comfortable with it yet and I figured I'd just crash and burn if I kept going. It's a fun tune so I'll put it on my list and keep at it!

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#1701175 - 06/24/11 11:29 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: scepticalforumguy]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1310
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: scepticalforumguy
However, I don't find the rhythymic accompaniment of the chair to be as polished as the rest of the performance. Perhaps you need to focus on using less polyrhythms in your lower body and set a more stable feel with those squeaks.


"Yoru wish is my command."
-Sheik Yerbouti

ps: i'll have to listen you other guys when i get back from the sticks. i'm out in the northern part of the stockholm archipelago celebrating midsummer (which is a big thing here).
_________________________
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#1701177 - 06/24/11 11:30 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Scott Coletta Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/11
Posts: 514
Loc: Chicago
Jazzwee, on the E7#11 I'm just using E half-whole dim. Sometimes I play E lydian-dominant or some blend of that and the half-whole scale. Not sure what I did on the recording.

Regarding the functioning of harmony in the A section, I wasn't sure about how you got this...

Originally Posted By: jazzwee
B7#11/Eb - I think of this as EbAlt, which then functions as a V chord back to the A7#11.


I see how thinking of the B7#11/Eb as Ebalt makes sense (B whole tone = Eb whole tone), but wouldn't that be V of Ab? I'm thinking that the B7#11 is one "form" of Eb dominant and the A7#11 is another "form", being that it's a tritone sub.

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#1701178 - 06/24/11 11:31 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: Scott Coletta]
jjo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 593
Loc: Chicago
Jazzwee: If you get a chance to learn Peri's Scope, which is a fun, light, tune, my trio does a cool think Bill Evans does in his live Montreaux recording: you and the drummer trade 8s, then 4s, then 2s and then 1s. It's a wild ride (and not easy to keep track of where you are), but a lot of fun. Not sure I'd do it in public without a dry run, however.

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#1701226 - 06/24/11 01:12 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: Scott Coletta]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta
Jazzwee, on the E7#11 I'm just using E half-whole dim. Sometimes I play E lydian-dominant or some blend of that and the half-whole scale. Not sure what I did on the recording.

Regarding the functioning of harmony in the A section, I wasn't sure about how you got this...

Originally Posted By: jazzwee
B7#11/Eb - I think of this as EbAlt, which then functions as a V chord back to the A7#11.


I see how thinking of the B7#11/Eb as Ebalt makes sense (B whole tone = Eb whole tone), but wouldn't that be V of Ab? I'm thinking that the B7#11 is one "form" of Eb dominant and the A7#11 is another "form", being that it's a tritone sub.



Hey Scott. My thought was that B7#11/Eb when looked at as B7 doesn't relay its function.

But when looked at as a Eb7 with various alterations, then it makes sense for it to resolve to Ab.

A7#11/Eb - again when looked at as an A7, it doesn't relay it's function. But it's really another Eb dominant chord with just different alterations.

In my mind, from an analysis point of view, I was just thinking how an Eb chord is made to appear to have motion by having some of the inner voices move and that's what I perceive the intent here. It is of course a common technique in a lot of tunes to go from a minor chord (Eb-7 to Eb7) which feels like a passing chord. And it is also common to find a movement like Eb7 to Eb7Alt which also feels like another passing chord.

I recall a tune that has a lot of these passing chords being Along Came Betty (Benny Golson). So whenever I see the use of Alt, I immediately think if it's function is as a passing chord (suggesting inner voice motion).

Now, although, I've done some analysis of it a Eb chords and Bb chords (in this tune), I don't (so far) think of that when I'm playing it. I'm more conscious of it as individual chords without the bass pedal.

Perhaps Coltrane was aware of the dual effect of this, that there's one side that draws you in to just thinking of inner voice movement in Eb and Bb. But then one is free to avoid all that and think of seemingly unrelated chords with a more modal sounding effect.

It seems so brilliant how it was done.

HOWEVER -- it seems difficult for the same reason to come up with a melodic theme that's memorable. Everyone (including me when I practice this) is just playing over the changes. That kind of revelation may be more difficult to come by.
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#1701237 - 06/24/11 01:28 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Scott Coletta Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/11
Posts: 514
Loc: Chicago
I follow what you're saying Jazzwee cool. You're articulating more clearly what I was trying to say about different "forms" of Eb7 when you talk about passing chords with inner voice motion. And I see what you mean about the dual effect of playing different chords over a pedal. This is definitely an interesting study of harmony in this tune.

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#1701272 - 06/24/11 02:41 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2940
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
so what's the setup for tonight JW ?

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#1701281 - 06/24/11 02:59 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Tonight's a sextet - Sax + Trumpet + Vocals. I found the trumpet guy at our last Jam session and he was playing in some of the recordings I posted.

Apparently there's a little bit of battle of the bands as another band plays before us in the same venue (though not in the same spot). I just found this out and seems to be a scheduling faux pas. There's a bit of an overlap.

Anyway, I'm not worried about the battle of the bands because the other group (Quintet) is a Celtic group. So completely different music. Besides, we're the established regulars smile

I had a chance to play some of the tunes with my teacher yesterday and I'm a little panicky since I learned a different comping for Cantaloupe and I only have overnight to practice it...

Scott - you reminded me of an earlier comment about being too superconfident on the following gigs. In fact, I'm feeling the opposite right now. Playing 90% of the tunes I've never done with the group before is daunting. But my motto nowadays is keep it simple.
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#1701315 - 06/24/11 03:46 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2940
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
There are some tunes I would not play unless I had rehearsed.
Recorda-me is one. The reason is I wouldn't trust the horn to play the head correctly.

I would stick to tunes that I know FOR SURE everyone knows. People have a tendency to say "yeah, I know the tune", but they have no idea how the bassline goes, where the hits are, etc ...

Four is another tune that people "think" they know. Then they realize that the changes are not as easy as they thought.
Also, I stay away from tunes that have different versions across book.
Windows, Four, Bluesette, Moment's notice are tricky that way. People learn it one way, then you tell them it's another. I know you all have ipod apps, but most people play on stage without a lead sheet. They just play what they know.

>>Tonight's a sextet - Sax + Trumpet + Vocals. I found the trumpet guy at our last Jam session and he was playing in some of the recordings I posted.
Is the vocalist playing all the tunes? Or does she sit a few out?
Will you all solo on ballads? that's one good thing to agree on. Sometimes on ballad, you might want to solo only on one section each, a la Basie, especially if it's 6 of you.

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#1701340 - 06/24/11 04:41 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Recordame is something that the Bass, Drums, Sax have as a standard tune in another band among them. So I think they'll do ok.

But the issue with Recordame is the piano intro for one chorus. I didn't practice that so I said we'll just comp one chorus. Sometimes the horns do that intro.

I realize, I'm taking so may risks this time. But the audience is not judgemental so as long as we maintain a good groove, they'll like it.

I have many musos in the audience though. My past classical piano teacher will be there with some other musician friends. But if the worst case scenario is what happened in the jam session with no rehearsal, I can't be particularly worried.

I did tell you about Windows right? The sax was using different changes. Wow - that was wild. That'll be embedded in my memory forever. A very Outside version of Windows played TOO uptempo (jjo's preferred tempo). I'm not going to play Windows again for a bit at a gig. I need to recover from that smile

Knotty, you do realize that in all the gigs I've done so far, nothing has been rehearsed right? Somehow my skills at going with the flow are really improving. LOL. At the first gig, I just met the drummer and sax for the first time.

I called the tune, counted it down and it felt like we've been playing together for years!

I do practice with our Vocalist (she sings on half of the tunes). We switch between vocalist and instrumental sets (every 3 tunes). The vocalist is the one that has the least training typically. So I have to specifically work out intros, tag endings, solo sequence.

For tonight, the only ballad really is Naima and we're all taking solos on that.
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#1701345 - 06/24/11 04:51 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
How about you Knotty, do you have a gig this weekend? If so, what's on the set list?
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My Blog

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#1701398 - 06/24/11 06:03 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2940
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
nothing this week. We had one last saturday for the us open.

we played something like that:
Beautiful Love
What is this thing called love
Cantaloupe Island
All Blues
How Insensitive
Autumn Leaves
C Jam Blues
All the Things You Are
The Jody Grind
Softly As in a Morning Sunrise
Blue Monk
Blue Bossa
Stella By Starlight
Song for my Father
There will never be another you
Mr Magic
Minority
Come Sunday
Four
Bye Bye Blackbird
Chitlins Con Carne
Some Day My Prince Will Come
Work Song

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#1701411 - 06/24/11 06:21 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
That's a huge list. Like a 4 hour gig! Fantastic. Sounds like a major paying gig.

These I don't know at all:

The Jody Grind
Mr Magic
Minority
Come Sunday
Work Song
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#1701419 - 06/24/11 06:28 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2940
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
3 hours. I don't think we went through all.

Jody Grind is a cool horace silver tune. Nice bassline. Very funky.
Mr Magic is funk
Minority is a bill Evans favorite.
Come Sunday is an Ellington spiritual ballad
Work Song is super cool. Nat Adderley. Check it out.

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#1701423 - 06/24/11 06:33 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
I've got my list to science it seems. 15 tunes for 2 1/2 hours with a break in the middle.

Monday I've got another Jam --
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#1701639 - 06/25/11 04:01 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
I'll give a report later tonight...I had too much to drink so by the time I got to the 2nd to the last tune (Whisper Not) I was messing up the head. But I survived and did one more tune. LOL.

But our hard core fans were there and very few people showed up at the competing band that played before us (I felt sorry for them -- they sounded good). Everyone just wanted to hear us.

We'll see how the recording sounds (I left it at the location by accident).

By all accounts, the audience enjoyed it.
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#1702003 - 06/25/11 08:04 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Darn -- I just found out that my recorder had no recording. Looks like I left on standby and didn't hit the zoom a second time to start recording.

Too bad because I recall playing the best that I've ever had. Naima sounded great with the rhythm section. The horns played the head together and I didn't get lost at all. I found that the bass player skipped an A section once but I didn't get tripped. The weird part is that the horn players kept ending their solos on weird sections. So everyone was stopping and starting in different A sections (3 possibilities).

Cantaloupe sounded great. No train wreck at all and in the middle of my solo, I switched to Jazz Scat and everyone cheered (Herbie did that in one of his versions).

I had a little too much to drink but aparently it relaxed me and I was playing occasional bursts of 16ths that caused people to hoot in approval.

Mr. PC, All Blues, and Footprints were immensely popular judging from the clapping and my sax player quoted some Coltrane and really got their attention.

So too bad I don't have a recording but for a group that doesn't rehearse we're really sounding solid.
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#1702010 - 06/25/11 08:13 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2940
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
>> Darn -- I just found out that my recorder had no recording. Looks like I left on standby and didn't hit the zoom a second time to start recording.

frown Can't tell you how many times that's happened to me ...

>>Cantaloupe sounded great. No train wreck at all and in the middle of my solo, I switched to Jazz Scat and everyone cheered (Herbie did that in one of his versions).
link ? I'd love to hear that

>> So too bad I don't have a recording but for a group that doesn't rehearse we're really sounding solid.
Congrats!

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#1702058 - 06/25/11 10:14 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California


He scats at the end.


Edited by jazzwee (06/25/11 10:15 PM)
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#1702085 - 06/25/11 11:15 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
My 2 hour gig with piano guitar duet:


It Had To Be You
Time After Time
Stars Fell On Alabama
September In The Rain
I Cover The Waterfront
Days Of Wine And Roses
Stardust
But Not For Me
That's All
Summertime
I Thought About You
Body And Soul
Skylark
Bye Bye Blackbird
East Of The Sun
What's New
What Is This Thing Called Love
A Foggy Day
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Roland FP-4 digital piano, Mason & Hamlin acoustic piano.

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#1702088 - 06/25/11 11:25 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Jazz+, you guys are just blazing through these tunes. I've never gone through more than 15 in 2.25 hours of straight playing (taking out the break). Do you guys solo?

I see some in there that I'd like to add to my list too. This is great posting set lists!
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#1702096 - 06/25/11 11:36 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
The tunes have strong melodies so we don't play long solos. Usually 1 chorus of soloing each, did two 50 minute sets. 18 tunes, about 4 to 5 minutes per tune ... about 6 seconds of pause between tunes. Been doing a lot of casuals with this set list.
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Roland FP-4 digital piano, Mason & Hamlin acoustic piano.

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#1702248 - 06/26/11 07:50 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2940
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
>> Been doing a lot of casuals with this set list.
What are you all calling casuals ?

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#1702251 - 06/26/11 07:57 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2940
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
>> He scats at the end.
thanks

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#1702362 - 06/26/11 12:26 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: knotty]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: knotty
>> Been doing a lot of casuals with this set list.
What are you all calling casuals ?


To me a casual is when you do it at a private residence or private location.

Since a "straight-ahead jazz" casual is rare, I don't take them. I just do the public concert type gigs.

But the money is in the casuals...
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#1702382 - 06/26/11 01:10 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2940
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
private location like what? Aren't all locations pretty much private?
By concert, do you mean that people are typically quiet during the performance?

Is a wedding a casual? I would guess not.
What about corporate events, where people are dressed up and are offered expensive food? Casual or not?

The term is not clear to me. But I've heard it from you west coast guys. Must be a west coast terms smile

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#1702388 - 06/26/11 01:14 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2940
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
I'll add that the JW's list is pretty similar to J+'s list, pretty straight ahead.
So if J+ uses it on casual, why wouldn't you take casuals.

Columbo would call it loose ends wink

My guess is that you all are calling "casuals", a place where you play low volume level.

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