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#2029830 - 02/09/13 11:14 AM What makes it tick :)?
Evaldas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 111
Loc: Vilnius
So we've been able to tune the horribly out of tune F2# string, on my inexpensive Riga piano, with this improvised piano tuning "hammer":

Well not perfectly, but it's a major improvement.
But I have another problem, the B6 key's mechanism is making a ticking sound when it's depressed, take a look on youtube

Do you have any suggestions for a quick fix laugh? Do you need any more angles? I've taken out the mechanism to have a look, but wasn't able to identify anything, because I didn't know what I was looking for...

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#2029836 - 02/09/13 11:24 AM Re: What makes it tick :)? [Re: Evaldas]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21256
Loc: Oakland
You are likely to ruin tuning pins with an improvised tool like that. Have you ever heard the expression, "Penny wise and pound foolish"?
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#2029838 - 02/09/13 11:27 AM Re: What makes it tick :)? [Re: Evaldas]
Eric Gloo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 1224
Loc: Richfield Springs, New York
I can't see from the video, but it sounds like the hammer butt felt is missing. When the jack goes back to its rest position, it is hitting bare wood, causing the "tick". You'll need a bright light to look behind the jack, to see if this is actually what is happening. The piece of felt is rather small. If it has come unglued, it may stuck somewhere near where it fell out.
_________________________
Eric Gloo
Piano Technician
Certified Dampp-Chaser Installer
Richfield Springs, New York

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#2029845 - 02/09/13 11:49 AM Re: What makes it tick :)? [Re: Evaldas]
Mark Cerisano, RPT Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 1064
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
When trouble shooting noises, try to isolate parts.

Trip the jack and let it go. If you hear the click, it is indeed a missing butt felt.

Just cut a small square of felt, similar to the other ones, and add a drop of glue and use some long tweezers to grab the corner of the felt. Trip the jack and hold it while you position the felt square at the back, behind the jack, and onto the butt, NOT onto the butt buckskin, just onto the wood area at the back where the lost piece was glued.

Spend a lot of time looking at the parts moving before you try this. Be sure you understand what I am saying and why before you try this. Not because you will break something and it will be unrepairable (Yes, you can replace a worn tuning pin, although you'll probably wear out your homemade hammer before that happens) but because I want you to be able to have success with this, or any repair you try, with the least amount of aggrivation possible.

It has been said, when asked a question, or asked to perform a skill, one difference between experts and amateurs is that the amateur will begin right away, while the expert begins after a good period of reflection.

Good luck.
_________________________
Mark Cerisano, RPT
www.howtotunepianos.com

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#2029879 - 02/09/13 01:02 PM Re: What makes it tick :)? [Re: Evaldas]
Evaldas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 111
Loc: Vilnius
So basically when the tuner came in last Sunday to tune the piano, he removed the action to clean the inside of the piano and he said, that if I ever will be looking for a new piano and it will make the ticking sound after a key is released, most likely it's because that part of felt is missing due to moth damage. Then when he was tuning it, he noticed the ticking and said "I don't understand, the felt part doesn't seem to be missing", then he did something (I believe with a screw driver) that stopped the ticking, but later it came back...

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#2029886 - 02/09/13 01:09 PM Re: What makes it tick :)? [Re: Evaldas]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
As always it can be many things including a piece of glue in the way. Sounds like you need a new tech....to eliminate your..tick.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#2029924 - 02/09/13 02:31 PM Re: What makes it tick :)? [Re: Evaldas]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7169
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Evaldas
So basically when the tuner came in last Sunday to tune the piano, he removed the action to clean the inside of the piano and he said, that if I ever will be looking for a new piano and it will make the ticking sound after a key is released, most likely it's because that part of felt is missing due to moth damage. Then when he was tuning it, he noticed the ticking and said "I don't understand, the felt part doesn't seem to be missing", then he did something (I believe with a screw driver) that stopped the ticking, but later it came back...


On a Riga, (but even on a Renner action), it can happen that the (red) cushion fall , and the jack ticks on return . but this can be seen with a flash light, and that jack is not at the same rest position than its neighbors.
if you move the jack only with a small screwdriver you will hear immediately if it is in fault.

A customer of mine had that problem and glued back the little cushion without dismounting anything. A simple drop of white glue, preferently only at the bottom back side of the cushion, and once reinstalled the jack will hold it in place for the glue to set.

A drop of glue on the old cushion could make that noise , if it is not the missing cushion check the key return, check the hammer shank return, test with the sustain pedal engaged (dampers inactive)

An horribly out of tune string mean that the tuning pin is not firm in its hole. did the tuner say something about ?

DOnt use your "tuning tool" it can make more trouble. if your piano does not stay in tune you will need a decent tuning hammer or a devoted tuner wink

It also cn be the screw that regulate the jack stop rail that touch the backcheck on return.


Edited by Olek (02/09/13 02:34 PM)
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2029937 - 02/09/13 03:08 PM Re: What makes it tick :)? [Re: Evaldas]
Evaldas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 111
Loc: Vilnius
Yes, we discussed that the piano potentially might not hold its tune. He said some pins are already hammered deeper into the pinblock. That F2# after we tuned the right string of it, seems to hold the tune for now, and all the keys seem to be holding the tune, maybe it's too early to tell. Maybe the tuner forgot to tune that key laugh...
We agreed that we might later need to reinstall some tuning pins if the problem persists.
The piano stills needs a lot of work.
I wish I had a tuning hammer, but it's not like I will be tuning my piano from now on, I just needed to adjust that one string until I can have the tuner come and check it. So I don't know if it's worth acquiring one.
The piano is from the times according to my tuner when Riga used to make higher quality instruments than later on, the action is actually by the Red October factory. It has a keyboard of only 85 keys, not 88 (A0-A7)

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#2029968 - 02/09/13 04:20 PM Re: What makes it tick :)? [Re: Evaldas]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Evaldas
...The piano stills needs a lot of work.....
The piano may not be worth too much work.
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

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#2029977 - 02/09/13 04:37 PM Re: What makes it tick :)? [Re: Evaldas]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7169
Loc: France
Pin hammered are not always easy to tune, the problem of your tool is that it can marr the edges of the pins then it became even harder to tune even with the good tuning lever. (and that can be a real problem to take out the pin to change it or repair it)

Did you find that tick ?

Jurgen if this is the only piano availeable, changing a few pins is not really a problem. What could be is if a line of pins are not holding, meaning there is a crack inside the pinblock.

Sure by German standards it is not a piano of much value, but as long as it is not worn out I understand the desire to have it in shape.

Probably not necessary to change the hammers for instance, but if the tuner know how to voice and regulate he can rise the musicality to an accepteable level.

I have no idea of the "good era" or other, not knowing those piano brand. Sure if the pinblock is loosing its resiliency,
no need to spend much money . But no reason it could not hold the tuning if the tuner know his job well


Edited by Olek (02/09/13 04:38 PM)
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2030427 - 02/10/13 11:51 AM Re: What makes it tick :)? [Re: Evaldas]
Dave B Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1891
Loc: Philadelphia area
I'll bet that somewhere in side the piano is a little square piece of felt. I would expect it to be red color or maybe green color.

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#2030516 - 02/10/13 01:34 PM Re: What makes it tick :)? [Re: Evaldas]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7169
Loc: France
I bet for green ! how much do you put ?
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2031303 - 02/11/13 04:36 PM Re: What makes it tick :)? [Re: Evaldas]
Evaldas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 111
Loc: Vilnius
I haven't had much time to investigate it.
But also the sheet music stand's hinges are buzzing (resonating) on some notes, especially in the middle octave and it's so annoying. I tried tightening the screws, I tried loosening them, didn't help smirk

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#2031356 - 02/11/13 05:05 PM Re: What makes it tick :)? [Re: Evaldas]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7169
Loc: France
it is the axis of the brass part that have some play. usually a new one make it, or bend slightly the old one before reinstalling.

you also can try to close the outer part with pliers, or plier plus hammer, so it is closer


Edited by Olek (02/11/13 05:06 PM)
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2031496 - 02/11/13 10:03 PM Re: What makes it tick :)? [Re: Supply]
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2034
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: Supply
Originally Posted By: Evaldas
...The piano stills needs a lot of work.....
The piano may not be worth too much work.
Yup! I'm gonna go with that opinion. The ailment descriptions don't sound good.
_________________________
David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----

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#2031912 - 02/12/13 03:08 PM Re: What makes it tick :)? [Re: Evaldas]
Evaldas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 111
Loc: Vilnius
I will add some fuel to the fire, by saying that my piano tuner has told me that he tried some upright pianos in a music store and he said that a ~12000USD costing C.Bechstein would start to get close to my piano sound wise, which I bought for ~150USD, plus $65 for transportation and about $95 for the first tuning/regulation smile
So for me it's worth investing in this piano, as long as it's less than $11690, I've always wanted a Riga and I'm very glad that I bought one. We have completely different pianos available here from the ones that are available in the US/Canada.
Someday I will buy myself an Estonia grand, as the factory is only about 500 miles away laugh. But for now I have what I have, I must work around it.

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