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#2029956 - 02/09/13 03:48 PM Re: Tuning of a Steinway, model D grand [Re: Eric Gloo]
Ralph Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/01
Posts: 1298
Loc: Delaware (slower/lower)
Originally Posted By: Eric Gloo
Has anyone ever been to the V**g*n Islands? Do they have pianos there?


No, but I've been to Intercourse PA.
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Do or do not. There is no try.

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#2029982 - 02/09/13 04:45 PM Re: Tuning of a Steinway, model D grand [Re: Anne'sson]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Anne'sson
As a retired English professor, I would point out that abbreviating a phrase conventionally euphemises it--and thus removes any profanity.....

Now I understand that the young cool dudes actually mean "What The Frisbee" when they use the common abbreviation.

I guess it follows then that all the abbreviations of profane phrases that a person can find on, for example "Urban Dictionary," are OK to use in any setting?
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#2030111 - 02/09/13 09:49 PM Re: Tuning of a Steinway, model D grand [Re: Mark Davis]
Anne'sson Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 142
Loc: El Paso, TX
Jurgen, WTF fully written out would be obscene or vulgar, not technically profane. Mark was correct in saying that the fully written out version of OMG is profanity, because it is a religious phrase presumably out of a religious context. "Oh my God" could be a prayer; the British expletive "bloody" is a contraction of "By our Lady"; GD (euphemised alternatively as "gosh darn" or "gol dang") is a curse and could be intentionally used by religious people in a solemn pronunciation of anathema. Minnesotans (like Marty) are proverbially given to spoken euphemisms for profanity: for example, in the movie "Fargo" one character's response to absolute carnage is a heartfelt "Oh, Jeez!"

Personally, I find the full version of WTF considerably more offensive than OMG (probably because the former is clearly an obscenity), and I would agree that it probably would be inappropriate on this forum. But I'll point out that some of my former students (in their twenties and thirties) write it out as "What the frack" in text messages--approximately the equivalent of Jerry Groot's "Oh my gosh" for OMG. Finally, our list owner himself warns that calling someone else on the lists "a fricking idiot" is out of line.
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El Paso, TX

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#2030302 - 02/10/13 07:57 AM Re: Tuning of a Steinway, model D grand [Re: Monaco]
pianolive Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 325
Loc: Europe
Here are the total tensions for some Steinway models,

D: 45373 lbs
B: 39047 lbs
L: 36692 lbs
M: 33823 lbs
S: 32332 lbs
K: 37500 lbs Upright

Among scale designers it is well known that 52 mm is the optimal speaking lenght, no matter the size of the instrument.
Steinways are also made so.

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#2030352 - 02/10/13 09:29 AM Re: Tuning of a Steinway, model D grand [Re: Mark Davis]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
All this time I read it as 'Oh my goodness'.

Not to be pedantic but 'Oh my god' refers to my god which might be a Tree.
If I were to say ' oh your god', that might be different.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#2030401 - 02/10/13 11:08 AM Re: Tuning of a Steinway, model D grand [Re: pianolive]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1292
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: pianolive
Here are the total tensions for some Steinway models,

D: 45373 lbs
B: 39047 lbs
L: 36692 lbs
M: 33823 lbs
S: 32332 lbs
K: 37500 lbs Upright

Among scale designers it is well known that 52 mm is the optimal speaking lenght, no matter the size of the instrument.
Steinways are also made so.


Interesting tension information. Of course it does not indicate tension per string -- which is the more relevant measure when discussing scale designs.

It may be that the 52mm measurement is "well known" only among scale designers that don't know much. The speaking length of the top note is the foundation upon which the rest of a good scale is built. Lengths are deliberately chosen from 48mm to 60 mm. Beyond that, some makes of piano are wildly erratic from one unit to the next in actual production. (S&S being a prime example.)
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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#2030454 - 02/10/13 12:21 PM Re: Tuning of a Steinway, model D grand [Re: kpembrook]
pianolive Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 325
Loc: Europe
My reply was to Mark on his question whether the D has got a high tension scale or not.
Compared to smaler pianos it has a higher tension, but compared to some other concert pianos it does not have a high tension scale, rather low I would say.
I remember a Blüthner concert piano from 1936. The total tension in that piano was 55115 lbs (org scale), there was a very high tension in the bass.
About Steinway, I can only speak for those made in Hamburg.
About scale design I only know about books and articles published in Germany.
You may be able to find all kinds of strange scales among all different manufacturers.


Edited by pianolive (02/10/13 12:40 PM)
Edit Reason: Spelling

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#2030547 - 02/10/13 02:18 PM Re: Tuning of a Steinway, model D grand [Re: Supply]
Monaco Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/28/11
Posts: 387
Loc: GA
Originally Posted By: Supply
Originally Posted By: Anne'sson
As a retired English professor, I would point out that abbreviating a phrase conventionally euphemises it--and thus removes any profanity.....


I guess it follows then that all the abbreviations of profane phrases that a person can find on, for example "Urban Dictionary," are OK to use in any setting?


So........ For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge ........ abbreviated is ok to say?


Edited by Monaco (02/10/13 02:19 PM)
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Piano Teacher
Beginning Tech

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#2030549 - 02/10/13 02:23 PM Re: Tuning of a Steinway, model D grand [Re: Mark Davis]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7072
Loc: France
I also have heard that most pianos (I suppose grands but.. ?)
May borrow an ideal scale in the high - medium treble, based on that 52 mm dimension to begin with.

Up to which note ? I have been told that A49 is where the lenght decreasing begin another curve this may be only one method.

That said not all pianos use the same strike length proportions may be that could relate to some differences in lenght in the treble ?

Do you know how global tension is related to the iH range , is there a direct link ? (for instance, Bluethner may be low iH pianos)



Edited by Olek (02/10/13 02:24 PM)
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#2030600 - 02/10/13 03:43 PM Re: Tuning of a Steinway, model D grand [Re: Olek]
pianolive Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 325
Loc: Europe
Hello Isaac,

Yes,as a matter of fact the Blüthner grands do often have an overall low IH. Possibly because the whole middle section have very long speaking lenghts.
In the facsimile of the book from J.Blüthner and H.Gretschel (1872) Jan Grossbach suggets that Blüthner actually never put much attention to scale design, but Blüthner is said to be a real master in viocing.
I think scale design back then was based on theories from Hansing, Gontershausen and others. We can still see tracks from that period in modern pianos like in the Steinway B with the almost ekstreem shortening of the bass up to E2.

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#2030644 - 02/10/13 04:43 PM Re: Tuning of a Steinway, model D grand [Re: Mark Davis]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7072
Loc: France
Thanks, and are not Bechstein have (often) a low tension and high iH scale ?

I just wonder if the relation is so straightforward between both.

Recent Bluethner are among the best small grands I ever seen.
Sauter may also have such long lenghts in the mediums (?)
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2030955 - 02/11/13 06:48 AM Re: Tuning of a Steinway, model D grand [Re: kpembrook]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1909
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: kpembrook
Originally Posted By: pianolive
... Among scale designers it is well known that 52 mm is the optimal speaking lenght [for the top C], no matter the size of the instrument. Steinways are also made so.
... It may be that the 52mm measurement is "well known" only among scale designers that don't know much. The speaking length of the top note is the foundation upon which the rest of a good scale is built. Lengths are deliberately chosen from 48mm to 60 mm. Beyond that, some makes of piano are wildly erratic from one unit to the next in actual production. (S&S being a prime example.)


Measured a 1905 Ibach grand at 90 mm (12 gauge I think). Pros and cons v Steinway?
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Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2030962 - 02/11/13 07:18 AM Re: Tuning of a Steinway, model D grand [Re: Withindale]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21196
Loc: Oakland
Originally Posted By: Withindale
Measured a 1905 Ibach grand at 90 mm (12 gauge I think). Pros and cons v Steinway?


Not likely. Measure it again.
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Semipro Tech

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#2030963 - 02/11/13 07:26 AM Re: Tuning of a Steinway, model D grand [Re: BDB]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1909
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: BDB
Originally Posted By: Withindale
Measured a 1905 Ibach grand at 90 mm (12 gauge I think). Pros and cons v Steinway?


Not likely. Measure it again.


I did, but I'll check again this evening.
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2031237 - 02/11/13 03:23 PM Re: Tuning of a Steinway, model D grand [Re: BDB]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1292
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: BDB
Originally Posted By: Withindale
Measured a 1905 Ibach grand at 90 mm (12 gauge I think). Pros and cons v Steinway?


Not likely. Measure it again.


Absolutely correct. 90mm should exceed the breaking length for piano wire at that pitch. I restrung a Kawai GS-70 that was 60mm and that was over 80% of breaking point. (It is also an explanation of why it has such a shriekingly piercing tone, as well). I changed the tension by lowering the wire 1/2 size, but, of course, that didn't change the breaking percent or inharmonicity.
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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#2031312 - 02/11/13 04:42 PM Re: Tuning of a Steinway, model D grand [Re: kpembrook]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1909
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: kpembrook
Originally Posted By: BDB
Originally Posted By: Withindale
Measured a 1905 Ibach grand at 90 mm (12 gauge I think). Pros and cons v Steinway?


Not likely. Measure it again.


Absolutely correct. 90mm should exceed the breaking length for piano wire at that pitch.


Quite right, the actual speaking length is 54 mm. I did think, "Euphemisms, what is the tension going to be?" but my mind must have been elsewhere at the time

I hope Mark will still recount his experiences with the Steinway despite all the detours in this thread.
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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