 |
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
|
|
65 members (accordeur, antune, Colin Miles, anotherscott, AndyOnThePiano2, benkeys, brennbaer, APianistHasNoName, 10 invisible),
1,878
guests, and
343
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 447
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 447 |
I love a good Blind Taste-Test! If I may, let me add a letter 'S' to this fine group: https://soundcloud.com/wurmph-fernburger/sHint: it was created with software of which the name starts with the letter 'P'.  Best of all, the piano plugins used were free! All I paid for was a $50 licence for my Reaper audio workstation software that exported the mp3 file. p.s. from the OP's previous list, I liked 'N'.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 558
500 Post Club Member
|
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 558 |
Let me know what S is! Getting it for free is a good choice!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 558
500 Post Club Member
|
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 558 |
Upon re-listening to the samples I'm beginning to think the most (but not all) of these samples are really the same piano, but with different tone/timber/hammer adjustments. All have a somehow metallic character, some extremely, but some others so subtle that I couldn´t decide if they really all have the same base underlaying or if they are actually different ones. But, so many forum members who point out that the software pianos would be so nice. I only found 3 worth to _maybe_ one day spend money for them - but didn´t feel at all any need to change what I have. The newly submitted sample "S" is at least as good, and if really available for free, then I could give it a try. Paying for any of A to S at the moment? I am much reserved about this.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 447
Full Member
|
|
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 447 |
Let me know what S is! Getting it for free is a good choice! Hi Marco, Not wanting to hijack this thread, I will spill the beans about sample 'S': It is a hybrid of "Piano One" by Sound Magic and the demo version of Pianoteq (Bluethner Model) by Modartt. So they both indeed start with the letter 'P' but there was a little trickery involved. Piano One is a sleeper in my opinion as a source of really good, clean, unlooped samples for free. However, it, like most piano software out there, is lacking in the sympathetic resonance department. This is where Pianoteq comes in. Pianoteq is being mixed together at a lower volume with Piano One on top. They both are running at the same time and reading the same MIDI file. The reason I need Reaper is that this program allows me to run both and render to mp3. Plus, I really like Reaper and its philosophy so I support them. Piano One is fully featured and free to download and use. Pianoteq's Bluethner demo version is missing some notes (in order to make you pay eventually), but used in this context, I can get away with the free demo version. It is just under the hood, adding support, body and life to the Piano One samples. I am certainly not the first to try this hybrid approach of modelling and sampling, but I think that this will be the likely piano software/DP future, if we ever want anything better than what's been posted here already.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 318
Full Member
|
|
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 318 |
I have a top five, but I don't know about an order for them
D,B,J,K,N
I have a bottom three, Q & R because they both sound fuzzy to me, and E because it sounds like I'm listening with my head in the piano.
This is listening with Sennheiser HD598s on, I would probably give different answers through my PA system.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,730
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,730 |
Relevant to some conversations in other threads, it's apparent how wildly different people's opinions can be about which sounds are better than which!
I wish there had been some more held notes and chords without motion underneath, the sample seemed lacking in that.
I'd rate them in roughly this order, with skipped lined to delineate where I found bigger jumps:
D
N
F
C
G
H
J
B
E
I
A (ff is bright and brittle, reminds me of some Rolands)
I didn't want to listen to the really bad ones multiple times to try to determine which was worst out of a bad batch. ;-) But really, a lot toward the end started getting pretty bad, starting with K. From there to the end (except for N) each one seemed probably worse than the one before. So I guess the worst one is R.
But who knows. Maybe tomorrow, I'd come up with some different answers ;-)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 561
500 Post Club Member
|
|
OP
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 561 |
Sound Sources Revealed: EDIT: Correction made in one sound source ID "Custom EQ/Processing" generally involved adjustment of tone (usually to brighten) and/or adding some reverb. A: Galaxy The Giant Pop preset -custom EQ/Processing B: Native Instruments Berlin Mood -custom EQ/Processing C: Garageband Grand Piano with custom EQ/Processing D: Galaxy Vintage D with custom EQ/Processing <= Note Correction** E: 8DIO Legacy Grand Player Mic Hi F: Native Instruments New York Production with custom EQ G: Galaxy The Giant Vibrant preset H: Native Instruments Upright with custom EQ/Processing I: Galaxy The Giant Upright preset J: Galaxy The Giant Hard & Tough preset K: Native Instruments New York Showcase with custom EQ/Processing L: Galaxy The Giant Pop preset M: 8DIO Legacy Grand Close Mic Hi N: Ivory II American Concert D O: Imperfect Samples Fazioli P: Imperfect Samples Steinway Q: Steinberg HalionSonic Bright Acoustic Grand with custom EQ/Processing R: Steinberg HalionSonic Acoustic Grand with custom EQ/Processing **Please note correction: I incorrectly identified a sound source D as Garageband/Pianoteq when D is Galaxy Vintage D with custom EQ/Processing. How? When I originally created the DAW working files I pretty much stuck with one product then moved on. Sometimes I went back to rework something or to dig through additional presets. I created several DAW project files. I could not use one for all of this because it taxed my system. When I was ready to make mp3s I opened the projects and exported sound files naming them A-P. I made notes on an index card. Initially, the designated letters of the mp3 files showed a pattern as they were grouped together according to the software. The final step in the process was renaming the files to shuffle the sequence to make it random. I manually randomized the sequence making additional notations in my notes. Many people said 18 files were too many. I had more that I did not include. I misread my notes thinking I had uploaded the Garageband/Pianoteq file. I thought of using HalionSonic after I had completed and uploaded the others to SoundCloud. With 18 files, having a couple made with the same product next to each other would not matter. I ended up with both HalionSonic files (Q&R) back to back at the end. Sorry 
Last edited by o0Ampy0o; 02/18/13 09:29 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,552
3000 Post Club Member
|
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,552 |
Interesting. American D was actually on my least favorite list. Guess I won't be buying that one any time soon. Of course, settings and maybe even velocity curve could have made a difference here.
Lots of love for Garageband Grand blended with PianoTeq. How much of each was in there?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,730
6000 Post Club Member
|
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,730 |
Although there was a good deal of variance in people's opinions, all but two people put D at or near the top, Could you give a little more detail about how that one was designed?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,416
1000 Post Club Member
|
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,416 |
Besides having fun participating in this survey, what can we learn from this? Is it that each software program can be EQ'd an processed to sound pretty good or very bad. Seems like a waste of time to me?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439 |
What surprised me is that four of my top five choices were variations of The Giant.
I have The Giant and I like it somewhat, but it has a plunky sound so I don't use it much.
Now I think I'm going to try your chosen presets, especially the Vibrant preset.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 311
Full Member
|
|
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 311 |
My results (before reading the revealation and other people's comments):
Best five: DFK NB (DFK being the best, in no particular order, followed by NB in no particular order). But the distinction is difficult to make.
I also liked: CL
Worst: Q (along with AORHM... to many to choose from).
I did the test twice with about a week apart to "forget the results" and while the result was sligtly different, I was basically consistent with my lineup.
Side note: I downloaded and tried PianoOne (as suggested somewhere in the thread) and I was SUPER unimpressed. I believe the next discussion about playability could be resolved by simply by pointing out this software. It sounds good "one paper", yes. I like that it's free, of course.
Now I'm going to read the "correct answers", looking forward to it:-)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 558
500 Post Club Member
|
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 558 |
I have a GIANT in my top favorite list, and in my list of the worst as well.
I will listen again to the samples, this time having in mind what others preferred. Maybe I will get my ear accustomed a little bit better towards the kind of mainstream taste. Could be interesting to know for the case that I once would play for audience...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,482
1000 Post Club Member
|
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,482 |
Since you we're ready to reveal the names of the candidates anyway in the end, I don't know what the purpose or value of this test is supposed to be, other than some fun hours comparing the sequenced samples for the interested ones. The sounds we're tweaked, layered with other products and processed. Hard to give an unbiased judgement about them, apart for the really poor and very best ones. Exactly what I was afraid of earlier on.
When you are entering product names into the equation, why not do a fair and more scientific test with a broad range of different types of piano passages and playing styles and all instruments with their best grand preset without alterations (usually the fist grand preset) ?! Of course recorded in the same way at the same level. With acoustic effects (reverb!) turned off to be most neutral. That would be more useful for people trying to form an opinion on the different AP simulations available. You already created a workflow and platform to set up something like this - so perhaps it could be a next , IMHO , more useful implementation of your initiative.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 561
500 Post Club Member
|
|
OP
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 561 |
I incorrectly identified a sound source file and have edited the "revealed" posts.
As for the point of this survey, it was intended to be fun.
BTW, after editing the two "revealed" posts I noticed that HalionSonic was not the only pairing of the same software. I thought of Imperfect Samples as two different pianos but there is a paring of The Giant with different presets also. Oh well...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,552
3000 Post Club Member
|
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,552 |
Ahh, that makes more sense. Galaxy Vintage D for the win again.
I was very, very surprised when I saw that garageband + pianoteq was the general favorite.
Last edited by gvfarns; 02/18/13 10:25 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,416
1000 Post Club Member
|
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,416 |
Ahh, that makes more sense. Galaxy Vintage D for the win again.
I was very, very surprised when I saw that garageband + pianoteq was the general favorite. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439 |
Well, imagine my shock at seeing a Garageband/Pianoteq blend at the top of the list. My ears could not believe what my eyes were reading. ... until you corrected it. Now it makes sense. Vintage D and some of the Giant presets topped my list. (I own both.)
The Vintage is no surprise as a list topper. The Giant was a surprise, though. I'll have to try some of those alternate Giant presets one of these days.
|
|
|
|
Forums43
Topics223,390
Posts3,349,223
Members111,632
| |
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
