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Great. Put it in a thread without a misleading title.

Kees

I am sorry for making some members not happy.

In my understanding, talking about practical method is the original intention of this thread. Its state on the first post.

I began practice this tuning method and keeping on nearly daily post some months ago, no one told me my posts are spam.

Tuning thirds progressive is not the only objective of C.HA.S. In C.HA.S, thirds and fourths are progressive, fifths are regressive to near pure. Its near Pythagorean tuning. This is an novice understanding. Correct me if I am wrong.

A3-C#4 OK,
A#3-D4: slow
B3-D#4: OK
C4-E4: Slow
C#4-F3: slow
D4-F#4 OK
D#4-G4: OK
G4-G#4 slow, near pure
F4-A4 slow

A3-A4 may too narrow.



A3-D4 ok.
A#3-D#4, B3-E4, C4-F4: progressive but too fast.

C#4-F#4: OK, may be too slow.
D4-G4, D#4-G#4 sloer.



A3-E4 OK
A#3-F4 very fast, better say its third
B3-E4: same as above
C4-G4: near pure, too just
C#4-G#4: Move too soon, too narrow
D4-A4: OK, but reversed.

Need to improve hammer skill. Keeping steady slow move can hear the change in tone.

Hi,

This is the third pass. I had micro moved some pins. Wait until tomorrow to check the stability.

The octave interval named base to avoid the irritating key word CHAS.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/base-15-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-15-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-15-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-15-oct-2012

I found keep a longer distance from the string to my ears, I can hear voices of two notes blended together.

There is no reason to justify why you are here Forrest. Just continue to learn in the way that you wish to, by reading here and comparing your work. I am sure there are others doing the same but remain silent.



It is not necessary for you to apologize to anyone for your postings Weiyan. Just ignore the postings from the self-anointed moderators of the world who have nothing constructive to offer.

Thanks for your clearity, Dan.

- . - . - . -

Hi Weiyan,

Let's see your own review, my comment in brackets.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-13-oct-2012

A3-C#4: OK, (yes, it sounds Ok but it is sweet, more tipical for a lower third)
A#3-D4: slow (faster/better than previous)
B3-D#4: OK (yes)
C4-E4: Slow (Ok)
C#4-F4: slow (slow/sweeter than previous)
D4-F#4 OK (yes)
D#4-G4: OK (yes)
G4-G#4 slow, near pure (check, it's only sweeter than previous)
F4-A4 slow (yes)

A3-A4 may too narrow. (yes)

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-13-oct-2012

A3-D4 ok. (slow, too close to just)
A#3-D#4, B3-E4, C4-F4: progressive but too fast. (not progressive, A#3-D#4 is much too fast)

C#4-F#4: OK, may be too slow. (fast)
D4-G4, D#4-G#4 sloer. (yes, too slow, also E4-A4)

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-13-oct-2012

A3-E4 OK (yes, very nice)
A#3-F4 very fast, better say its third (simply a little fast)
B3-E4: same as above (Ok, nice)
C4-G4: near pure, too just (Ok, nice)
C#4-G#4: Move too soon, too narrow (check second (simultaneous) playing... quite nice)
D4-A4: OK, but reversed. (yes, little too narrow)

You wrote:..."Need to improve hammer skill. Keeping steady slow move can hear the change in tone."...

Yes, slowly move your hammer... follow the beat-rythm, feel the pin, its torsion, how it is bending... you want to evaluate and control those forces in order to counter-charge each pin.

Next:



The base is much better, D4 is a little high, which is good (!), you would remember that and adjust it later. The same for A4, it is a little too wide and you would adjust that later.

The thirds progression is quite impressive, very good indeed... "Hair" review the above, a nice challenge.

- . - . - . -

Forrest, if you like, you too can be active here.

- . - . - . -

Have a nice day, a.c.

Listen to the sound file again, still need to improve a lot.

BASE:
A3-E4, E4-A4 too just.
A3-D4, D4-A4 OK
A3-A4: OK.

Thirda
A3-C#4: OK
A#3-D4: fast
B3-D#4: OK
C4-E4: seems slow. May be the string has problem, not easy to hear.
C#4-F4: OK
D4-F#4: Slow
D#4-G4: OK
E4-G#4: OK
F4-A4: slow.

Fourths:
A3-D4: OK
A#3-D#4: Slow
B3-E4: OK
C4-F4: OK
C#4-F#4: slow, beats same as above.
D4-G4: Slow
D#4-G#4: OK
E4-A4: slow

Fifths:
A3-E4: too just
A#3-F4, B3-F#4, C4-G4, C#4-G#4, E4-A4 OK.

Hammer skill. A major obstacle need to overcome.

Thanks.

Micro adjusted some interval yesterday.

Hear to the piano directly. The sound file have different perception and there may some pitch change in these few days.

This exercise aimed at the micro hammer technique.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/base-24-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-24-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-24-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-24-oct-2012

Hi Weiyan,

Let's see your self review, my comment in brackets:

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/base-15-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-15-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-15-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-15-oct-2012

BASE:
A3-E4, E4-A4 too just. (A3-E4 is Ok, E4-A4 is a bit wide)
A3-D4, D4-A4 OK (A3-D4 is a bit wide, D4-A4 is Ok)
A3-A4: OK.(a bit wide, perfect to begin with)

Thirds
A3-C#4: OK (yes)
A#3-D4: fast (Ok)
B3-D#4: OK (yes)
C4-E4: seems slow. May be the string has problem, not easy to hear. (Ok, tense)
C#4-F4: OK (Ok, sweeter than previous)
D4-F#4: Slow (yes)
D#4-G4: OK (yes, tense)
E4-G#4: OK (yes)
F4-A4: slow. (yes, a little bit)

Fourths:
A3-D4: OK (yes)
A#3-D#4: Slow (yes, too just)
B3-E4: OK (yes, a little too wide - see C4-E4)
C4-F4: OK (yes, a little slow)
C#4-F#4: slow, beats same as above. (yes)
D4-G4: Slow (not sure)
D#4-G#4: OK (yes)
E4-A4: slow (yes, A4 has gone down)

Fifths:
A3-E4: too just (this is Ok)
A#3-F4, (too just - see F4-A4) B3-F#4 (Ok), C4-G4 (a hair too just), C#4-G#4 (Ok), E4-A4 OK (a hair too narrow (*)).

(*): Try to invert the above fifths progression.

- . - . - . -

As you can see, you have done very well. I'm very impressed and I would say... Do trust your ear, compare (as a reference) the beat rate of adiacent intervals, relate your hammer and whole body to beats. "Hammer skill" takes time, micro-adjustements will help for both beat-curves and unisons.

If you like, you could add the recordings of higher octaves and 10ths, like A3-C#5, up to the first 12th (A3-E5). Make sure the outer strings are well-muted. And train your "beat-map" memory, so that you may be able to correct two (or more) intervals with only one move.

Next:



You wrote:..."there may some pitch change in these few days."...

Actually, pitch changes occour also while we are tuning, for this reason you may prefer to stay a little bit... higher... as long as you remember where.

When ever, you may review the above.

Best regards, a.c.
.

Sorry for not review last tuning.

For preparation of higher octave, retune the temperament and add two more test.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/base-1-nov-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-1-nov-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-1-nov-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-1-nov-2012

A3-C#4, A3-F#4, D4-F#4. Should they progressive in C.HA.S?
A forum friend suggest this test. Not sure if this test valid for C.HA.S.
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/3th-6th-test-1-nov-2012

Four sixths within A3-A4. They should be progressive.
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/sixths-1-nov-2012

Not review above tuning yet. Going to higher octaves and post tenths later.

Thank you.

Tuned the octaves up to G#4-G#5
A4 drop down a little before tuning the rest.

Octaves from F3-F4 to G#4-G#5
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/octaves-1-nov-2012

Tenths from F3-A4 to E4-G#5
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/tenths-1-nov-2012

Fifths from F3-C4 to C#5-G#5
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-f3-c-5-1-nov-2012


Edit:
The method for tuning the octaves is tune it as wide as possible and sense the tone like A3-A4. Then record the tests after tuning.

Thank you.

Hi Weiyan,

Let's see the above recordings:

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/base-1-nov-2012

Yes, A3-A4 is a bit too wide, but it is better a-bit-too-wide than any narrow octave. Nice A3-E4 (a hair too narrow), E4-A4 is fast but... you would remember that and adjust A4 later. A3-D4, make it a hair wider... D4-A4 might be reversed.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-1-nov-2012

All together you have done well, please listen to the first five thirds and comment.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-1-nov-2012

Ok, in general. I am sure you too can spot fourths that are too close-to-just or too wide. Do you want to try?

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-1-nov-2012

Nice job. You can hear they are quite similar.. (apart from A3-E4 and D4-A4) now it gets challenging, you want to hear that both fourths and fifths are progressive. Fourths progressive-wider, fifths progressive closer to "just". Let these intervals "sound" a little bit longer and do not hesitate, evaluate how the interval's sound evolves and, in case, make your correction. To get it "dirty" or "exact" takes the same time! Stay a hair on the "tense-salty" side and map your small pitch approximations in your mind.

You wrote:..."A3-C#4, A3-F#4, D4-F#4. Should they progressive in C.HA.S?
A forum friend suggest this test. Not sure if this test valid for C.HA.S.
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/3th-6th-test-1-nov-2012 "...

I never compare intervals in that way, I evaluate every single interval's beat-curve and its chromatic progression. Of course, D4-F#4 will be faster than A3-C#4.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/sixths-1-nov-2012

Well, not bad. Would you like to comment (faster/slower)?

Tomorrow... 10ths and your latest posting.

When will those lovely birds be back?

Have a nice day, a.c.
.

Hello,

Let's see:

Octaves from F3-F4 to G#4-G#5
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/octaves-1-nov-2012

Well done, in general. If I were to refer to my musical ear, I may say that none of the above octaves sounds offensive. In fact, also with octaves, our ear is fairly good-tempered and may not complain for small approximations. But then, when we play complex chords.. approximations can/will add up, so reducing the harmoniousness of the whole. Let's focus on how the beat appears, on "when" beats show up; you may check from F3-F4 to C4-C5 and let me know what you hear.

Tenths from F3-A4 to E4-G#5
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/tenths-1-nov-2012

G3-B4 is much faster than previous, G#3-C5 is slower than previous... I am sure you can hear that. Would you like to review the rest?

From C4-E5, where beats get very fast, you may evaluate sweet/calm // sour/tense. Normally, when I get to E5 I stop comparing chromatic 10ths and evaluate the first 12th (A3-E5): considering centre-string, we want the octaves and 10ths "correct" progression lead to/confirm A3-E5 "just" (as a practical/general case), i.e. apparently no-beating. 12ths are not difficult to evaluate and can indicate the stretch-curve we are choosing. You only need to remember that, after left/right string unisons, you may get a variation in pitch. Try to anticipate that variation by choosing the appropriate stretch for all intervals.

Fifths from F3-C4 to C#5-G#5
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-f3-c-5-1-nov-2012

I do not think we need to review that. Now I'd rather say this: when expanding my partition towards the bass, I mainly relate 4ths, 5ths and octaves and check the thirds and 10ths progressions. When expanding towards the trebles, I use octaves (and perhaps fifths) up to C#5; then I relate C#4-C#5 (and previous octaves) to A3-C#5, this works as the first octave-stretch indication; then octaves and 10ths, up to E5; then octaves and 12ths, up to A5, where I can also check the 12th/15th relationship.

Regards, a.c.

Thank you.

I am still improving my tuning.

This is my last tuning for the year 2012:
forget to record the base.

A3-A4 with 3rd/10th, M3/m6 test
https://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/a3-a4-28-dec-2012

Thirds
https://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-28-dec-2012

Fourths
https://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-28-dec-2012

Fifths
https://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-28-dec-2012

Use check points in between the tuning. This is near one pass tuning.

A4->A3, check M3/M10, M3/m6 make sure its wider octave
A3->E4, Check
A3->D4, E4-A4 faster than A3-D4, D4-A4 calmer than A3-E4
E4->B3, compare with A3-D4, E4-A4
B3->F#4, Evaluate A3-F#4,
F#4->C#4, Evaluate A3-C#4, also compare with A3-F#4
C#4->G4, compare A3-F#4, B3-G#4, should progressive
G#4->D#4, evaluate the thirds
D#4->A#3, evaluate the thirds
A#3->F4, evaluate the thirds available. F4-A4 is fastest, but can still hear the beat rate.
F4->C4,
D4->G4,

Best wishes and have a year with harmony.

Hi Weiyan,

Thank you for your wishes... indeed, be this 2013 a year with harmony.

I have listened to the last recordings and would like to make sure that you can notice the same, as I do. Please, let me know.

Thirds go Ok/slower/faster/slower etc...;

Fifths: A3-E4 sounds fine, also D4-A4 is Ok; in general, try to keep the others (beat-wise) in between, progressive; C4-G4 and C#4-G#4 are too narrow;

Fourths:
A3-D4 is slow, make it (at least) 1 bps, better a hair wider, you will correct later on;
A#3-D#4 beats too much;
B3-E4 is too still, etc...



A3-A4, the M3/m6 test does not help my practice; go for beat spead and hammer control; tune A4 like D4, a hair wider;

B3->F#4, Evaluate A3-F#4, (add: place B3-F#4 in between A3-E4 /!/ D4-A4);
F#4->C#4, Evaluate A3-C#4, also compare with A3-F#4 (place F#4-C#4 in between A3-D4 /!/ E4-A4); do the same with all other ready-available (but temporary) intervals.

The Chinese New Year is February the 10th, I've discovered, more joy to come.

Regards, a.c.
.

Thank you.

Harmony seems too far from here. The Gini coefficient is very high. The house price is sky high for a tuner. 27 tunings for 1ft sq floor area(gross, net useable area should at least discount 30%). For a 600 ft sq 20 years old apartment, 16200 tunings. If 1000 tunings per year, 16.2 years non stop working, no food, no drink, no traffic, no medicine, no inflation, then I can afford a flat.

For the CHAS tuning, I think its time to try different pianos. For on site tuning, the psychological state and the quality of the piano play important role.

Today I tuned a aKwai and have surplus time to take record. Will post on next post.

today I tune a Kawai K-5. This is second tuning. Half year ago I tuned it with Verituner.

https://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/octave-29-jan-2013
The A3-A4 octave, with 3rd/10th, M3/m6 testing.

https://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/base-29-jan-2013
A3-E4, higher partial seems beats ok, lower partial seems beats very fast. Not sure if its false beat.

https://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-29-jan-2013
A3-C#5 OK
A#3-D4 OK
B3-D#4 slow, same as previous interval
C4-E4 faster than previous interval, actually its too slow
C#4-F4 fast
D4-F#4 ok
E4-g#4 fast
F4-A4 ok

https://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-29-jan-2013
A3-D4 ok
A#3-D#4 little bit slow
B3-E4 beats same as previous, too slow
C4-F4 very fast. Had compromised F4 after recording
C#4-F#4 OK
D4-G4 OK
D#4-G#4 slow
E4-A4 ok

https://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-29-jan-2013
A3-E4, refer to base
A#3-F4 OK
B3-F#4 OK
C4-G4 fast
C#4-G#4 initially ok, the tail has wave?????
D4-A4 OK

Thank you for comments

Hi Weiyan,

In general, you have done a very good job.

Before we go on with other details, I need your answer (from my previous post, third line):



If possible, let me know if you can hear what I hear. Let me know what you do not notice, and if some intervals are easier (for you to evaluate) than others. This will help me decide how and where to direct your attention.

About the Gini coefficient, also in Milan, perhaps like in Paris or London, it is pretty hard... Anyway, perhaps that is only.. outer harmony.

Regards, a.c.
.

Hi, today is last day of the year of dragon. A few hour later will be year of snake.

Regarding post #2013439

Fourths:
A3-D4: slow, near 0.5bps
A#3-D#4: Fast, near 2bps
B3-E4: Slow, 1bps
From B3-E4: The beat rates are progressive. Sicne B3-E4 is too slow, the whole range is slow.

Thirds:
A3-C#4: OK
A#3-D4: Slow
B3-D#4: fast
C4-E4: Ok
C#4-F4: Fast
D4-F#4: slow
D#4-G4: br same as previous interval
E4-G#4: Ok
F4-A4: Ok

Fifths:
A3-E4: too calm, should a hair wider
A#3-F4: near perfect fifth
B3-F#4: fast, this should be br for A3-E4
B3-F#4: fast
C4-G4: br same as previous interval, with the feel of progressive
C#4-G#4: OK
D4-A4: ok

Thanks

Best wishes for new year.
Kung Hei Fat Choi
恭 喜 發 財

Hi Weiyan,

I wish you and your family all the best, and... be this '13 "snake's" a very special year for all of us.

I will soon be back to your technical comments.

Regards, a.c.