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#2030085 - 02/09/13 08:53 PM Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 3416
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
If you buy a new Steingraeber, you will regret it. I don't know how else to put this. Consider yourself warned by one who knows.

We received a shipment of new Steingraebers on Wednesday of this week. I can no longer sleep, eat or concentrate.

On Wednesday, we opened a 212 and a 192. After working a 12 hour day, in which most of it was spent doing mind numbing tasks, I made the mistake of sitting down at the 212.

I blinked and 2 hours had gone by. It was close to 11 pm and I didn't care. I hadn't eaten since breakfast and I didn't care. All I wanted to do was play this piano. I was smitten. Bach, Brahms, Mozart, Bartok, Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff and more got played and each sounded better than the last. I enjoyed playing the piano. I wanted to practice. I wanted to play. The piano was inspiring me. It was teaching me. It was helping me sound better than I deserved, yet at the same time showing me how very far I had to go. I had thoughts of giving concerts. I was ready to toss it all, find a cave somewhere, and it would just be me and a Steingraeber and I would do nothing but practice, play and compose.

I fell in love with that piano. Seriously. Love. I was so deep in love that I asked that Steingraeber to marry me. I knew I wasn't worthy, but I thought I could become a better man if only that piano would have me.

Well, fortunately for me, it didn't respond to my proposal, because today we finally got around to opening up the 232. I would like to express my response to that piano, but this is a family website.
What the heck. HOLY MOTHER @#(*@#(@&#(@&#@(#&@(#&@*&#(@&# how is it possible?
That 232 is so good, my head exploded. Literally. That is the only reason I stopped playing. KABOOM. Head exploded. It is some kind of miracle that I can even write this with an exploded head. It shouldn't be possible. I think I am summoning my last bits of strength to warn others, so they don't share the same fate as me.

Please listen. Unless you want to end up wanting to marry a piano, while no longer being able to take care of your normal responsibilities such as concentrating at work and being productive, not to mention completely ignoring your basic human needs such as eating and sleeping, quite possibly ending up living in a cave by yourself with only a Steingraeber piano, and spending what is left of your life with an exploded head, PLEASE DO NOT BUY A STEINGRAEBER PIANO.

heck, it is playing with fire to even try one.

I know for some of you this will fall on deaf ears, but if I can just save one person from my fate, it will all be worth it.

I would write more, but I have to leave. The only hardware store that sells surgical quality duct tape for holding one's skull together is closing soon, and if the rest of my brain falls out, I might drool on the Steingraebers as I play them and that just seems wrong somehow. Although, I suppose that might disuade anyone from buying one of them and taking them from me. Mine! All MINE!!!!!!! MuahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

Well, if you have gotten this far, you cannot plead ignorance. Whatever fate you suffer at the hands of a Steingraeber piano is your own fault.

You have been warned.
_________________________
Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales of vintage and pre-owned Steinway and Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin, Charles R. Walter, Brodmann
www.pianocraft.net
http://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel/videos

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460

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#2030088 - 02/09/13 09:03 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Sam Rose Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 673
Loc: Los Angeles
HAHAHAHAHA Brilliant advertorial! Now I want one!

I'll be your best friend if you give me one! Please?

Or maybe I'll heed your advice and never play on a Steingraeber. smile
_________________________
Playing since age 21 (September 2010) and loving it more every day.
"You can play better than BachMach2." - Mark_C
Currently Butchering:
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#2030093 - 02/09/13 09:11 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1697
Loc: Toronto
You salesmen are getting craftier and craftier with your sales pitches.
I remember when I was a kid my parents would get me and my sister to eat broccoli and spinach by not putting any on our plates for dinner and when my sister and I asked why we didn't get any they would reply "You don't want this, it grown-up food". Of course that made us want it all the more smile
_________________________

Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist

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#2030108 - 02/09/13 09:44 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Rich D. Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 1309
Loc: Rehoboth Beach De. USA
Clever, and here I thought your true love was for Mason Hamlin.
_________________________
Retired at the beach (well maybe not completely)

Anton Rubinstein said about the piano: "You think it is one instrument? It is a hundred instruments!"

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#2030115 - 02/09/13 09:55 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
CHAS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/03
Posts: 521
Loc: Ski Country of Colorado
Hope you used protection.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A

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#2030118 - 02/09/13 10:00 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
ju5t1n-h Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 179
Loc: Vancouver, British Columbia
haha now that was a funny read!
_________________________
Essex EUP-123S


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#2030134 - 02/09/13 10:21 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
UK Paul UK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 396
Loc: Berkshire, England
Haha, good post! :-)
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http://www.youtube.com/user/PaulGPiano

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#2030138 - 02/09/13 10:32 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: UK Paul UK]
Scott Hamlin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 695
Your love-child will be beautiful!
_________________________
Personal Site: http://DulceLabs.com
Casio PX-5S Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Casio.Px5s/

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#2030187 - 02/10/13 12:26 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
ClsscLib Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 2086
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Too late, Keith. smile
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"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2030216 - 02/10/13 01:51 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1607
Loc: California
Thanks for the warning. I will definitely stay away from any Steingraebers. I like my head, and don't wish for it to explode.
_________________________
Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci

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#2030301 - 02/10/13 07:54 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
The first time I played a Steingraeber, I also suffered an attack of EHS. I have never recovered. I now carry industrial strength duct tape with me when I play them.

(Exploding Head Syndrome)
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2030364 - 02/10/13 09:48 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Dara Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/18/09
Posts: 1072
Loc: west coast island, canada
"Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano"

I most likely won't be buying one, but I'd love to play one.

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#2030370 - 02/10/13 10:00 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
bennevis Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 6646
I've still never had the (dubious ? wink ) pleasure of playing a Steingraeber. But when I visit Bayreuth next year, I'll make sure to bring a roll of strong duct tape with me - not just to protect my head from EHS when visiting the Steingraeber factory, but also to shield me from SAS (Self-Aggrandizement Syndrome, not Special Air Service) when listening to Wagner in the concert venue he built solely for his own music.....
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2030384 - 02/10/13 10:28 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Steve Chandler Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2898
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
Sadly I played a Steingraeber ay Allegro Pianos last summer. My life hasn't been the same since, okay that's a bit of an exaggeration, but it was a wonderfully responsive instrument to play. So much color, and like a super car just touch the gas and it jumped. Only the Estonia 225 next to it (and maybe the 210 downstairs) was equally responsive.

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#2030418 - 02/10/13 11:45 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7439
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Keith D Kerman
I was smitten. Bach, Brahms, Mozart, Bartok, Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff and more got played and each sounded better than the last. I enjoyed playing the piano. I wanted to practice. I wanted to play. The piano was inspiring me. It was teaching me. It was helping me sound better than I deserved, yet at the same time showing me how very far I had to go. I had thoughts of giving concerts.


Selling the illusion of grandeur or suffering from it? Only an uploaded performance video will provide a definitive answer.

If it's selling the illusion, the pitch is to a target audience with a disproportinate amount of it. Logic indicates that the time to replace a piano is when the performance capability of the player begins to exceed, match, or at least approach the performance capability of the instrument. It makes sense. The player's capability should, at least theoretically, be on an upward trajectory. The instrument's capability is either static with good maintencnace or in decline.

Logic, however, is insufficient to the needs of the luxury goods market, and can be its enemy. Without an illusion of grandeur, the piano upgrade market would be next to nowhere and what's left of the piano industry in the West would be in worse shape than it is.

Personally, I dislike had traumana analogies, no matter how far-fetched.
_________________________
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The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#2030426 - 02/10/13 11:50 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
ClsscLib Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 2086
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Will this do, T-dot? You won't find this one on the PianoCraft floor, though, since it's been carried off by Steingraeber pirates:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUAy-mDIozs

The "about" section is missing from this video, but I can tell you that it's a Steingraeber C-212.



Edited by ClsscLib (02/10/13 11:54 AM)
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2030462 - 02/10/13 12:31 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Harumph-N-Dot strikes again
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2030502 - 02/10/13 01:24 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: chicago, il
i can't help but wonder what the reaction would have been had this topic come from jeff at grand piano haus (also a steingraeber dealer).
_________________________
diary of an amateur pianist

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#2030508 - 02/10/13 01:30 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Goof Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/05/12
Posts: 377
Loc: UK
Ah! could not agree more.
I did post some time back that when I visited Hurstwood farm Pianos in Kent U.K. (they fit carbonfiber sound boards to Steigreaber), I was moved to tears by the sound of the pianos. Not me playing but friend with a B.Mus degree.

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#2030511 - 02/10/13 01:30 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: turandot]
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 3416
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
Originally Posted By: turandot
Originally Posted By: Keith D Kerman
I was smitten. Bach, Brahms, Mozart, Bartok, Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff and more got played and each sounded better than the last. I enjoyed playing the piano. I wanted to practice. I wanted to play. The piano was inspiring me. It was teaching me. It was helping me sound better than I deserved, yet at the same time showing me how very far I had to go. I had thoughts of giving concerts.


Selling the illusion of grandeur or suffering from it? Only an uploaded performance video will provide a definitive answer.


Hmm……of all the terrible things I suffered from spending time playing on new Steingraebers, it didn’t occur to me that they may also have caused me to suffer from the illusion of grandeur! That is a very excellent and insightful observation, and I personally thank you as you have given even more support to my original post. Sharing your insight here may have saved some hapless innocent from serious risk from buying or even trying a Steingraeber piano, the very thing I am so desperately trying to protect pianists and piano lovers from!
I will add it to my list of warnings and perhaps someone who might ignore my cautionary tale, will be persuaded by your diagnosis.

To be even more protective, I think a warning label on all new Steingraebers should say the following:

Buying or even playing this Steingraeber piano may lead to a desire to marry a piano, neglecting your normal responsibilities, ignoring basic human needs such as eating and sleeping, moving into a cave with only a Steingraeber piano, spending the remainder of your life with an exploded head, and worst of all, suffering from the illusion of grandeur.

Originally Posted By: turandot
If it's selling the illusion, the pitch is to a target audience with a disproportinate amount of it. Logic indicates that the time to replace a piano is when the performance capability of the player begins to exceed, match, or at least approach the performance capability of the instrument. It makes sense. The player's capability should, at least theoretically, be on an upward trajectory.


YES YES YES!!! 1000 times yes. Please, everyone, pay head to Turandot here. Decisions regarding Music, art, self expression, happiness, fulfillment, joy etc should be made logically. If your performance capability as a pianist does not approach the performance capability of the instrument you are interested in owning, DO NOT BUY THAT PIANO! It is illogical. And this is yet another good reason not to buy a new Steingraeber piano. There are super virtuosos like Cyprien Katsaris, Arcadi Volodos, and Marc- Andre Hamelin who can’t outplay a Steingraeber, but at least they push it more than most. I would say that if you can’t at least play the Chopin etudes that they are playing Godowsky transcriptions of, don’t even try a Steingraeber.
Of course, there are many other pianos out there that are likely to offer a performance capability beyond the players. Everyone, make sure you test this before committing to any piano. If your piano has the potential for repetition, soft playing, subtlety, expressiveness, powerful playing, speed beyond your current performance capability, GET RID OF IT! Only if your calculated eventual ultimate pianistic ability matches or nearly matches the full performance capability of a piano, should you consider that piano. It is only logical. Do not consider the illogical such as how much you will enjoy playing on that piano for years and years. It is illogical to think that if one owns a piano with performance capability beyond their personal pianistic ability that they might enjoy playing that piano so much that they play more, listen more intensely, learn from the colors, dynamic range, clarity etc offered on that piano that may not exist on other pianos. Reject the idea that even if you never get better, never play more than you are playing now, it is worthwhile to enjoy to the fullest the time and energy you are spending at your instrument making music.
For that matter, stop buying salt, pepper, or other spices that do nothing but waste money merely to make your food taste better. Stop spending money decorating your house in a way that pleases you. It doesn’t keep the rain out any better! Stop reading books that you enjoy. Heck, as I think about it, even spending time with music in any way is illogical.

Originally Posted By: turandot
The instrument's capability is either static with good maintencnace or in decline.


I would say the instrument’s capability is static or in decline with minimum maintenance. Beyond minimum maintenance, the piano should improve. However, any piano maintenance is a waste of time and money since it only serves to help the piano owner better enjoy their piano, and possibly it may even further the divide between the player’s capability and the instrument’s, and that is illogical.

Originally Posted By: turandot
Logic, however, is insufficient to the needs of the luxury goods market, and can be its enemy. Without an illusion of grandeur, the piano upgrade market would be next to nowhere and what's left of the piano industry in the West would be in worse shape than it is.


Logic is insufficient to the needs of everything that is sold that does nothing more than offer the possibility of some positive emotion for the buyer. That is why the Vulcan market is so hard to crack.

Originally Posted By: turandot
Personally, I dislike had traumana analogies, no matter how far-fetched.


You will be relieved to know that it seems that my initial post was not 100% accurate. After consulting with the clerk at the hardware store about which duct tape to use to patch together my new Steingraeber inspired exploded head, it turns out that my head did not actually explode. The hardware store clerk downgraded my injury to a severally blown mind.
_________________________
Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales of vintage and pre-owned Steinway and Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin, Charles R. Walter, Brodmann
www.pianocraft.net
http://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel/videos

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460

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#2030519 - 02/10/13 01:39 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Entheo]
fingers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 799
Loc: Westchester, NY
Originally Posted By: Entheo
i can't help but wonder what the reaction would have been had this topic come from jeff at grand piano haus (also a steingraeber dealer).


Interesting.
I can't help but wonder what the reaction would have been had this topic come from a Steinway dealer. The words marketing, hype, blah, blah , blah come to mind.

Personally, I enjoyed Keith's post. smile


fingers
_________________________
Playing piano at age 2, it was thought that I was some sort of idiot-savant. As it turns out, I'm just an idiot.

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#2030541 - 02/10/13 02:05 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
KurtZ Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 1287
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
What if NORBERT had posted this? Or Ori? Oh, the humanity!

Welcome to Piano Dealer Farm.

KZ
_________________________
One who does what the Friend wants done
will never need a friend.

Rumi

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#2030568 - 02/10/13 02:46 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14681
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Keith has posted nothing different from what anybody who has travelled German factories for years knowing their products would have said:

These are and always have been outstanding pianos in a class of their own. Nothing new really..

German piano companies, as do their car makers, fiercely compete among themselves for excellence: we were equally stunned when just receiving our last Sauter grands.

At same time it's impossible to identify "the finest of them all" - other than perhaps on a strictly personal basis.

And alos 'model'...

Any dealer for Steingraeber like Keith should be congratulated for offering such exclusive,truly stunning top quality make.

Problem is that only few people know enough about these pianos or have seen enough of them "not" to be surprised.

I for myself have never been able to establish who "the finest of them all" would be - not that this would matter anyways - coming each time to a slightly different conclusion...

Frankfurt Messe anybody?

Norbert smile


Edited by Norbert (02/10/13 03:09 PM)
_________________________
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Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2030594 - 02/10/13 03:34 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
wouter79 Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 4014
LOL, I did play a Steingraeber before I played and bought my current Grotrian, so maybe we should also warn everyone not to even try a Grotrian? :p
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#2030601 - 02/10/13 03:45 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Stryder87 Offline
Gold Level Forums Subscriber Until Aug 29 2013

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 88
Loc: New Westminster, BC Canada
This was not even close to what I expected this post to be about. It's just full of awesome. thumb

It's nice to see that I'm not the only one who likes to express myself that way. Now I must ask though...

Tell us how you REALLY feel? ha
_________________________

"Music is something so innocent and pure, it makes a person completely naked - in music you cannot lie." - Alice Sara Ott

Playing since December 6, 2011.

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#2030603 - 02/10/13 03:49 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
UK Paul UK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 396
Loc: Berkshire, England
Hmmm..... well when i am grade 8 level and working towards a diploma my lady has already agreed to my getting a grand.... certain things will need to happen before i can justify 50000 on one though :-) like 50000.... :'(
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http://www.youtube.com/user/PaulGPiano

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#2030623 - 02/10/13 04:11 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1555
Wow ! keith I thought you were going to break out into a song! smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o8SZng55T0

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#2030705 - 02/10/13 05:58 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Norbert]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 20454
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Keith has posted nothing different from what anybody who has travelled German factories for years knowing their products would have said:

These are and always have been outstanding pianos in a class of their own. Nothing new really..
The point of the post was to be humorous not to reveal something new.

Originally Posted By: Norbert
German piano companies, as do their car makers, fiercely c0mpete among themselves for excellence: we were equally stunned when just receiving our last Sauter grands.
Self promotion.

Originally Posted By: Norbert
Any dealer for Steingraeber like Keith should be congratulated for offering such exclusive,truly stunning top quality make.
I don't think the quality of a dealer is determined by the prestige of the makes they offer.

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#2030721 - 02/10/13 06:40 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Plowboy Online   content

2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2589
Loc: SoCal
Thanks for the warning, Keith, but rest assured at $90,000 for a 5'7" grand, I'll never afford a Steingraeber.

Now, Field's Pianos in Orange County has a new 2002 dark cherry S&S model M for sale for $49,000. That's a possibility.

edited for atrocious spelling.


Edited by Plowboy (02/10/13 06:40 PM)
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#2030742 - 02/10/13 07:12 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
malkin Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 3355
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By: Keith D Kerman
...You will be relieved to know that it seems that my initial post was not 100% accurate. After consulting with the clerk at the hardware store about which duct tape to use to patch together my new Steingraeber inspired exploded head, it turns out that my head did not actually explode. The hardware store clerk downgraded my injury to a severally blown mind.


Always good to get a second opinion.
smile
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