Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner 'If you can remember a tune, it's probably by Mozart....'

[quote=bennevis]'...and if you can't, it's probably by Haydn' - (http://youtu.be/6Wi7UsXW1As) .

What nonsense. Is there anyone who can't remember the melody to the 2nd movement of the Surprise Symphony?

You could make the same statement about Beethoven as about Haydn (and maybe Beethoven did learn something from his teacher). They wrote motifs that could be used as architectural building blocks, which could then be constructed into cathedrals of sound. We can all hum the opening notes of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, which hardly constitute a tune but which are certainly useful and don't become tiresome even though Beethoven used them over and over in the first movement.

Mozart was writing largely for the voice, even when writing chamber music. Later in his life he was becoming interested in the architecture and structure of his larger compositions, but for the most part his music is highly singable, with an emphasis on the 8 bar long line, and a natural sense of where the voice would rest to take a breath. Goodall's argument must be that it is easier for us to remember Mozart's music because we can sing it.

Or, to put this another way, we can remember lots of arias from Mozart's operas, but poor Haydn didn't write many operas and hence gave us less to remember vocally. Also, to give Mozart his due, it is very, very difficult to write good melodies and only a handful of composers really excelled at it (Schubert, Johann Strauss, Sullivan, Rogers, Tchaikovsky, Chopin). Haydn cannot be ranked at Mozart's level when it came to writing melodies, which is no slam on Haydn, considering how gifted Mozart was.

Yeah I agree. This is pretty silly.

Yes, I think that is the premise of Goodall's statement. Beethoven was certainly far closer to Haydn than to Mozart in his compositional methods.

As for 'building blocks', I think Sibelius took that to an extraordinary new level in his symphonies a hundred years later....

Beethoven wrote many unforgettable melodic motifs including perhaps the most famous in classical music(the opening of his Symphony No.5). So I think Goodall's statement is unclear and not particularly useful. He's talking about a certain kind of melody. The idea that Mozart's melodies would be more recallable because of their musical content(instead of their frequency of performance)seems already have been put to rest in this thread.

It would probably have been better/more useful/more accurate for Goodall to just state that Mozart's melodies tended to be somewhat longer than Haydn's(if, in fact, this is even true)and leave it at that.

Schubert, Mozart, Chopin, Tchaikovsky... these are amongst the very best melody writers I'd say. Who am I missing?

Gershwin?

Oh definitely.

BACH!!!

Even speaking as a "Romantic" (and heck, I'd vote for one of those guys), I think we could make a case that Bach wrote the best melodies of all.

They talk about "5 tool" baseball players, i.e. players who are top-notch on everything.
Bach was an infinite-tool composer.

We were talking about who are the "most rational" and "most emotional" composers, and a fair number of us thought Bach was both. Just about any musical dimension we might think of, Bach is an A++.

Too bad the stylistic traits of the day didn't allow his melodic gifts to be more tapped into. I wonder how his music would sound had he been born in the 1800's. (not to demean what he DID write)


Also, I'd bet you view Bach to be the greatest composer of all time? Many people fight over who holds that position. (Mozart, Bach or Beethoven)

I once heard someone in an interview say which composer he'd listen to if stranded on a desert island:
If he thought God was watching, he'd listen to Bach.
If God was occupied elsewhere, he'd listen to Mozart.

Yes, easy.

Others are mega great too, but to me he's an easy #1. Not my #1 "favorite" (that's Chopin) but greatest.

In case anyone wonders how you could have a different "favorite" than "greatest" -- it's not unusual. Like, I bet most people's favorite FOOD is far from what they'd consider the greatest food.

Me:
Greatest -- dunno, I guess vegetables
Favorite -- not vegetables

What are you implying? I think I have a hunch, but...

Well, I'm an atheist, but I think I know what he's getting at. BTW, he is (? was) someone famous (maybe a humanist), but I still can't remember who...

I think you probably need to listen for what is in Bach rather than what you consider isn't. One of my professors at uni used to say "sublimity is not an occupational hazard solely of the 19th century".

Bach wrote some of the most beautiful melodies ever and did so with great frequency.

Among Haydn's most memorable melodies are the Kaiserhymne (the equal of any melody by Mozart IMO) and the opening of the 1st movement of the D major cello concerto.

A bit OT -- does anyone else think that the theme of the finale of Mozart's symphony #39 sounds like a Haydn tune?

Mozart 39 finale

Apologies, I've now found the exact quote by Karl Barth, Swiss theologian:

"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God, they play only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille, they play Mozart and that then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."

Much better than my corrupted version.......

haha

I often listen his music in the every morning