Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 7 of 14 < 1 2 ... 5 6 7 8 9 ... 13 14 >
Topic Options
#2030369 - 02/10/13 09:59 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: FSO]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: FSO
See I...we...sorry, I *really* didn't make myself clear; I perhaps stated too lightly how *inadequate* the term homophobe is...that there is merely one word to encompass any degree of unsettlement is abominable and leads to just this kind of thing laugh Um...it's strange though; quite a lot of straight men seem to like seeing homosexual *women* snogging away...which would suggest it's more about attraction than whether the...um...activities are similarly choreographed...but...then surely they would hate seeing heterosexuals out together as half of the couple should be creeping them out...I just think it's one of "those things". Um...perhaps I read too much into Steve's comment, in which case I apologise...see, I'm anti-prejudice but you're under the misapprehension that that's what you are...if you don't like broccoli but have tried it enough times you can't be prejudiced; it's only having had no experience (or too little) that pops you into that category. Now, um, if it makes your stomach balk a bit, that's fine, it just is. I can keep waffling but I'm sure you've got it by now...oh, and just so you know, the LGBT get the royal stuffing kicked out of them world over; I've been assaulted and, at the lower end, had the right Michael taken out of me for what many would call my "choices". laugh Just saying, um, I do know what some *very* whatever-phobic people can get up to.

Yes, the word is certainly inadequate, but I now understand what you meant. Thanks for the clarification. Since I agreed 100% with what Steve was saying, it was disconcerting to then see his words labeled "homophobic". The ol' defense mechanism kicked in, and well, there you have it.

I know that "the road to heck is paved with good intentions", but I hope that until we old guys fade away, good will still counts for something. smile

(And I can't believe the software editor just changed "h*ll" to "heck"! mad)

Top
Ad 800 (Pearl River)
Pearl River World's Best Selling Piano
#2030372 - 02/10/13 10:01 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Old Man]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4777
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Old Man


(And I can't believe the software editor just changed "h*ll" to "heck"! mad)



Yeah, that really doesn't make sense. You can say it on TV, but not on PW? Hmmmm...

Top
#2030403 - 02/10/13 11:15 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
lol smile


Top
#2030407 - 02/10/13 11:20 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
I love Gimme Gimme Gimme laugh

Top
#2030559 - 02/10/13 02:37 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: JoelW]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6335
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Old Man


(And I can't believe the software editor just changed "h*ll" to "heck"! mad)



Yeah, that really doesn't make sense. You can say it on TV, but not on PW? Hmmmm...


Consider the possibilities.....

"Go to heck!!"
"Burn in heck"
"When heck freezes over"
"A cold day in heck"
"Heaven and heck"
"Been to heck and back"
"One heck of a pianist" (well perhaps this one isn't so strange)

But I digress...... grin
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

Top
#2030611 - 02/10/13 03:56 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: carey]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Old Man


(And I can't believe the software editor just changed "h*ll" to "heck"! mad)



Yeah, that really doesn't make sense. You can say it on TV, but not on PW? Hmmmm...


Consider the possibilities.....

"Go to heck!!"
"Burn in heck"
"When heck freezes over"
"A cold day in heck"
"Heaven and heck"
"Been to heck and back"
"One heck of a pianist" (well perhaps this one isn't so strange)

But I digress...... grin


ha

A further digression.

"The gates of heck"
"Heck on earth"
"Heck, Michigan"

and ... dare I? ... I dare

"Heck hath no fury like a woman scorned."

Top
#2030637 - 02/10/13 04:32 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4378
Loc: Jersey Shore
Don't laugh...

I sometimes wonder, if as a straight male I need to find a feminine side in order to bring out a better more musical sound. It's hard to describe.

Top
#2030638 - 02/10/13 04:33 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Old Man]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6335
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Old Man

and ... dare I? ... I dare
"Heck hath no fury like a woman scorned."

Heck yes !!!! thumb
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

Top
#2030696 - 02/10/13 05:48 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Old Man]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3580
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Old Man
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Old Man


(And I can't believe the software editor just changed "h*ll" to "heck"! mad)



Yeah, that really doesn't make sense. You can say it on TV, but not on PW? Hmmmm...


Consider the possibilities.....

"Go to heck!!"
"Burn in heck"
"When heck freezes over"
"A cold day in heck"
"Heaven and heck"
"Been to heck and back"
"One heck of a pianist" (well perhaps this one isn't so strange)

But I digress...... grin


ha

A further digression.

"The gates of heck"
"Heck on earth"
"Heck, Michigan"

and ... dare I? ... I dare

"Heck hath no fury like a woman scorned."


I was reading an interesting book about Heckenistic Greece the other day..

Top
#2030767 - 02/10/13 07:45 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: ando]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18022
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: Old Man
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Old Man


(And I can't believe the software editor just changed "h*ll" to "heck"! mad)



Yeah, that really doesn't make sense. You can say it on TV, but not on PW? Hmmmm...


Consider the possibilities.....

"Go to heck!!"
"Burn in heck"
"When heck freezes over"
"A cold day in heck"
"Heaven and heck"
"Been to heck and back"
"One heck of a pianist" (well perhaps this one isn't so strange)

But I digress...... grin


ha

A further digression.

"The gates of heck"
"Heck on earth"
"Heck, Michigan"

and ... dare I? ... I dare

"Heck hath no fury like a woman scorned."


I was reading an interesting book about Heckenistic Greece the other day..


What did it have to say about Hecken of Troy? smile
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

Top
#2030862 - 02/11/13 12:05 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: BruceD]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: Old Man
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: Old Man


(And I can't believe the software editor just changed "h*ll" to "heck"! mad)



Yeah, that really doesn't make sense. You can say it on TV, but not on PW? Hmmmm...


Consider the possibilities.....

"Go to heck!!"
"Burn in heck"
"When heck freezes over"
"A cold day in heck"
"Heaven and heck"
"Been to heck and back"
"One heck of a pianist" (well perhaps this one isn't so strange)

But I digress...... grin


ha

A further digression.

"The gates of heck"
"Heck on earth"
"Heck, Michigan"

and ... dare I? ... I dare

"Heck hath no fury like a woman scorned."


I was reading an interesting book about Heckenistic Greece the other day..


What did it have to say about Hecken of Troy? smile

thumb

Is this what we've become?? I think Kreisler's prophecy of several pages ago has finally come to pass.

"...my guess is the thread will go sour soon enough."

Perhaps not quite soon enough.

laugh laugh

Top
#2031071 - 02/11/13 11:12 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: debrucey]
jdhampton924 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 1009
Loc: Evansville, Indiana
Originally Posted By: debrucey
"In a civilized society we do not distinguish nor do we discriminate based on religious beliefs, sexual orientation, skin colour ethnicity, age, or gender."

But we do. We shouldn't, but we do. And it's not noble to act as if it doesn't happen as if that were the same as being politically correct. It is still the case that there are very few internationally renowned concert pianists who are black, for example. Whilst no decent person would judge a concert pianist on such a thing, its still an interesting conversation to have about the various social reasons as to why that might be the case.

I can understand why straight people who are either trying too hard to be politically correct or find it an uncomfortable subject would argue that such a conversation about gay pianists is uninteresting and not worth having. I, however, do find it interesting, to think about the various reasons for why there might be a higher percentage than normal of pianists who are gay, if indeed this is the case at all. Being at music college, this does seem to be the case, although I think it is more the case with singers. In my year, 9 out of the 12 tenors are gay. The other years are similar, and friends of mine in other colleges in the country have said that the numbers are similar where they are as well.
Estimates for how much of the general population are gay in some degree vary from 2% to 10% depending on which study you consult. Clearly there is some kind of disparity here. Does nobody think it might be even slightly interesting to pontificate on why this might be?


Your post interested,

When I lived in Chicago, and went to school there it seemed there were two groups. The students from Asia, who were about half of all the pianists and seemed to group together, and Everyone else. In the everyone else category, most of the guys were gay. 8/10 or something like that.

As I finish my undergrad, after my own problems kept me from school for a few years. I now got to school in Central indiana. Out of all the pianist, which is a much more unsegregated group those numbers seem to be in the reverse. In fact here, most of the pianist are ultra conservative people who would prefer to stay at home.

Top
#2031161 - 02/11/13 01:45 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Mark...]
Rostosky Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 3339
Loc: Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
Originally Posted By: Mark...
Don't laugh...

I sometimes wonder, if as a straight male I need to find a feminine side in order to bring out a better more musical sound. It's hard to describe.



Unfortunately it is funny that you should say that, because the other day i was just musing the possibility of breast augmentation surgery in both the male and female pianist as a method of not looking at ones hands whilst playing, if ( I mused) the implants were of a suitable size it would indeed be difficult to see ones hands while at the piano and may well be helpful.

The only downside I could think of is that every mouthfull of pie one consumed would have to go "the long way round" from plate to mouth, but saying that , even that may be beneficial in those amongst us that eat to fast anyways?
_________________________


Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew
which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project

Top
#2031422 - 02/11/13 06:39 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
asthecrowflies Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/12
Posts: 122
Loc: London, Cambridge, San Francis...
I'd love to get a poll of the gender & orientation break outs of PW posters. I think we'd find a higher proportion of homos here than in the general public. Much higher.

I think it's funny that some people think that the subject of gay pianists is a prurient one. In fact, I think of it as exactly the opposite - it's a search for identify amongst those of us who seek to understand our place in the world, through the lens of people "like us" whom we respect. Also, to better understand how lucky we are in this day and age, and how fortunate we weren't born in an earlier era. I can't help but think about what it must have been growing up as Van Cliburn, or Pletnev, or Richter, or Glenn Gould. Can't help but think if they channeled their frustrations into their music, and htat helped to take away the pain of being different.

Also Nelson Freire. I wonder, hey, if he were straight, would he still be best buds with Martha? One of my favorite Martha stories is of her and Nelson at a Horowitz performance of the Rach 3, holding hands, enraptured. It conjures a sublime happiness that I can only explain by associating it with my own memories of feeling truly safe in my own skin confiding in a female friend in those tormented teen years. Of course, Martha is a whole 'nother story - she is to many gay male pianists what Cher is to ordinary gays of a certain age. Or Judy. Or Madonna.

Anyway, I know I'm late to the party, and maybe this thread is just dying embers now, but just thought i'd weigh in!


PS. Debrucey. Your largely ignored joke about wiping was the funniest thing I've read in ages. I spit my drink all over my laptop when i read that. Magnificent.
_________________________
Currently working on: Bach Partita 4, English Suite 2, Toccata d-minor, Chopin-op 10/1, Schubert Impromptus

Top
#2031430 - 02/11/13 06:52 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: asthecrowflies]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4777
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: asthecrowflies
PS. Debrucey. Your largely ignored joke about wiping was the funniest thing I've read in ages. I spit my drink all over my laptop when i read that. Magnificent.


That was Fugue14's joke.

Top
#2031435 - 02/11/13 07:07 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: JoelW]
asthecrowflies Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/12
Posts: 122
Loc: London, Cambridge, San Francis...
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: asthecrowflies
PS. Debrucey. Your largely ignored joke about wiping was the funniest thing I've read in ages. I spit my drink all over my laptop when i read that. Magnificent.


That was Fugue14's joke.


Haha, no, that wasn't the joke, he just was making an analogy... debrucey was too clever by half & turned the analogy on its head.
_________________________
Currently working on: Bach Partita 4, English Suite 2, Toccata d-minor, Chopin-op 10/1, Schubert Impromptus

Top
#2031472 - 02/11/13 08:43 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
CWPiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 212
I think the subject of society's perception of homosexuals and professions associated with it is something we can't ignore as the impact is very real. Allow me to illustrate with my own experience.

I have mentioned this before in Piano Teachers' Forum that I started piano very late at 17 years old. A main reason for this is because my parents were vehemently against giving me piano lessons despite repeated requests from me. I come from a traditional Indonesian Chinese family and males are traditionally expected to go into 'macho' professions such as doctor, lawyer, engineer, businessman, etc. Music is viewed as a 'sissy' profession because of this skewed belief that males who learn music will turn gay. And a lot of musicians are gay, so it kind of reinforced this point.

So only when I was 17 when I had some savings I started piano lessons. Needless to say, this exasperated my parents to no end. My mother pleaded me to stop learning because she was genuinely afraid I would turn gay. She also said her aerobic mates were making fun of her because she had a son who learns piano and only gays or girls learn piano (I am not making this up). Imagine the bombshell when I told them I wanted to pursue music full time. But well, I soldiered on and along the way I fell in love, married, and now have a son. At least this alleviated their major concern that I was gay, eh.

So, I am wondering after what I had gone through. How many potential musicians out there are denied chance to pursue their dreams because of society's objection. The large number of musicians who are gay, could it be because the straights are denied a chance to study music?


Edited by CWPiano (02/11/13 08:44 PM)
_________________________
Singapore based private teacher specialising in accelerated ABRSM course.
Author of Visual Guides to Scales and Arpeggios.
Visit my website at www.wunadymusicstudio.com

Top
#2031567 - 02/12/13 12:21 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: asthecrowflies]
Ferdinand Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 943
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: asthecrowflies
I'd love to get a poll of the gender & orientation break outs of PW posters. I think we'd find a higher proportion of homos here than in the general public. Much higher.

I think it's funny that some people think that the subject of gay pianists is a prurient one. In fact, I think of it as exactly the opposite - it's a search for identify amongst those of us who seek to understand our place in the world, through the lens of people "like us" whom we respect. Also, to better understand how lucky we are in this day and age, and how fortunate we weren't born in an earlier era. I can't help but think about what it must have been growing up as Van Cliburn, or Pletnev, or Richter, or Glenn Gould. Can't help but think if they channeled their frustrations into their music, and htat helped to take away the pain of being different.
...

Are you implying that Gould was gay? I don't think he was. Or do you mean just that he grew up being "different"? That is certainly so. However, it's debatable whether someone like Gould "in this day and age" would have a less painful or frustrating experience of growing up compared to decades past.

Top
#2031572 - 02/12/13 12:24 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: CWPiano]
Whizbang Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 759
Originally Posted By: CWPiano
I think the subject of society's perception of homosexuals and professions associated with it is something we can't ignore as the impact is very real. Allow me to illustrate with my own experience.

...


Geez. A breath of fresh air on this thread.

I think there are most certainly cultural differences. Around the turn of the 20th century, in the US, the piano was definitely view as a girl's instrument--that is, if I'm to believe statements I've read by Gershwin and Morton.

In the US, at least, and to my impression, which may be very flawed, the piano as an instrument no longer has that stigma (say, compared to the flute), though perhaps classical music might. Certainly, music isn't viewed as manly as a pastime as, oh, football, but I never got the sense growing up that it came with a particular effeminate stigma. But I wasn't a part of that music study subculture.

While the plural of anecdote isn't evidence, I find that most of the (predominantly mainland) Chinese people I work with (in tech) want their kids to study an instrument, including piano, regardless of sex.

What, would you posit, is the difference, in this regard, if any, between mainland and HK Chinese culture and Indonesian Chinese culture?
_________________________
Whizbang
amateur ragtime pianist

Top
#2031614 - 02/12/13 02:39 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Whizbang]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Whizbang
I think there are most certainly cultural differences. Around the turn of the 20th century, in the US, the piano was definitely view as a girl's instrument--that is, if I'm to believe statements I've read by Gershwin and Morton.

In the US, at least, and to my impression, which may be very flawed, the piano as an instrument no longer has that stigma (say, compared to the flute), though perhaps classical music might. Certainly, music isn't viewed as manly as a pastime as, oh, football, but I never got the sense growing up that it came with a particular effeminate stigma. But I wasn't a part of that music study subculture.


Don't kid yourself. Guitar is cool. Piano not so much.

In what is likely a majority of small town America in the " outlaying rural areas " between the two coasts, classical piano is still definitely seen by the general culture as " gay " , " sissy " or " for girls ". A boy with any kind of social standing might as well put a pink tu tu on and hang a sign on his back " kick me here ".

What has changed is that there are now more kids who, through everything from the fact that the fastest growing religion in the US today is " no affiliation ", mass media changes with from matter-of-fact Will and Grace episodes through Glee through " it will get better " youtube videos, etc. don't feel perhaps as isolated, alone or estranged or suicidal from fear and bullying and outright assault.

http://www.itgetsbetter.org/

On my street in Amsterdam with lots of families and an estimated 30+ maintained pianos in the homes, not one boy has dared to take piano lessons over the past 15 years. Drums yes. Guitar yes. Those are the bold and daring choices. The safe choices of the popular boys? Field Hockey or Soccer. Period.

Top
#2031633 - 02/12/13 04:23 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Right, every Smalltown USA is an @$$backerds hicktown. How you came to that wild generalization, I've no idea.
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

Top
#2031639 - 02/12/13 04:36 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]
chopin_r_us Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 940
Loc: UK
heck, you're right Old Man. Is the software from the Bible Belt (@$$backerds hicktown)? In which case I'm surprised discussions like this are allowed. Hey! It doesn't do heck with a capital! Not only prudish but ungrammatical to boot.

Top
#2031657 - 02/12/13 06:14 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Horowitzian]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Horowitzian
Right, every Smalltown USA is an @$$backerds hicktown. How you came to that wild generalization, I've no idea.


As far I can see, you are the only one making that statement.

Having a different idea in your head is one thing. But it would be more interesting to hear you lay out a rebuttal in the form of a substantive contribution. At the very least have the intellectual honesty and graciousness to quote accurately what your fellow interlocutors have actually stated rather than missattributing them or making up your own hyperbolic strawmen.

Top
#2031667 - 02/12/13 06:51 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: theJourney]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7840
Originally Posted By: theJourney

In what is likely a majority of small town America in the " outlaying rural areas " between the two coasts, classical piano is still definitely seen by the general culture as " gay " , " sissy " or " for girls ". A boy with any kind of social standing might as well put a pink tu tu on and hang a sign on his back " kick me here ".



Having grown up in that sort of environment, I can say, backed up with experience, that you are somewhat right, but there are still many variables at play in how any individual kid will be treated. For one thing, the character of those communities are not all identically repressive and vicious, although there's no doubt they are usually far more conservative than big cities.

But there are many variables involved with an individual kid, too. Simply having an engaging and warm personality can dramatically affect how things go, for example.

Top
#2031675 - 02/12/13 07:08 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: wr]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: wr
Having grown up in that sort of environment, I can say, backed up with experience, that you are somewhat right, but there are still many variables at play in how any individual kid will be treated. For one thing, the character of those communities are not all identically repressive and vicious, although there's no doubt they are usually far more conservative than big cities.

But there are many variables involved with an individual kid, too. Simply having an engaging and warm personality can dramatically affect how things go, for example.


Indeed. Attractive, empathetic extroverts with charm and poise can get away with murder. Also, those strong, independent kids with an irrepressible love of l'art pour l'art who don't give a damn what others think can create for themselves more freedom of choice than those who are more gregarious social animals, despite the details of any specific limitations inherent in their local situation -- assuming there are competent piano teachers on hand and a household budget that can support such extravagance.

Top
#2031677 - 02/12/13 07:13 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Whizbang]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7840
Originally Posted By: Whizbang


I think there are most certainly cultural differences. Around the turn of the 20th century, in the US, the piano was definitely view as a girl's instrument--that is, if I'm to believe statements I've read by Gershwin and Morton.

In the US, at least, and to my impression, which may be very flawed, the piano as an instrument no longer has that stigma (say, compared to the flute), though perhaps classical music might. Certainly, music isn't viewed as manly as a pastime as, oh, football, but I never got the sense growing up that it came with a particular effeminate stigma. But I wasn't a part of that music study subculture.



I think one reason the piano no longer has that "stigma" is that the piano is no longer even there in most middle-class homes, and it certainly doesn't play the same kind of social role it once did. Its role as a center for socialization has long since been supplanted by the Weber grill and sports on the giant flat-screen TV, which I think are usually "guy" things.

Top
#2031687 - 02/12/13 07:32 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: CWPiano]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7840
Originally Posted By: CWPiano


So, I am wondering after what I had gone through. How many potential musicians out there are denied chance to pursue their dreams because of society's objection. The large number of musicians who are gay, could it be because the straights are denied a chance to study music?


That's a very good point, I think.

But you have to also factor in that a certain number of gays avoiding being identified as gay (known as being "in the closet") will also avoid the pursuit of "gay" careers like classical music, and will instead take up ditch digging or medicine or tech or whatever, instead of their real love.

I also find it extremely odd that interest and careers in classical music are specifically associated with "gay", but the same is not true in pop music, even though there are pop musicians who are gay and out about it. What's that all about?

Top
#2031689 - 02/12/13 07:32 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: wr]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: wr
I think one reason the piano no longer has that "stigma" is that the piano is no longer even there in most middle-class homes, and it certainly doesn't play the same kind of social role it once did. Its role as a center for socialization has long since been supplanted by the Weber grill and sports on the giant flat-screen TV, which I think are usually "guy" things.



Interesting. Forgotten is not the same as despised...

After the singing of " Happy Birthday to you", a couple mad rounds of Guitar Hero is about as close as many households will ever have come to actually have made music together at home.

Top
#2031694 - 02/12/13 07:45 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: wr]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: wr
But you have to also factor in that a certain number of gays avoiding being identified as gay (known as being "in the closet") will also avoid the pursuit of "gay" careers like classical music, and will instead take up ditch digging or medicine or tech or whatever, instead of their real love.

I also find it extremely odd that interest and careers in classical music are specifically associated with "gay", but the same is not true in pop music, even though there are pop musicians who are gay and out about it. What's that all about?


Pop music is heroic, accessible, ubiquitous, forward-looking, free, open and relevant.

Classical music is passe, fussy, formal, confining, prissy, closed and irrelevant.

Liberace is the limp-wristed hood ornament on the classical piano vehicle in the public's unconscious mind's eye.

Elton John, despite the funny eyeglasses and the husband, has us humming the tunes rather than rolling our eyes.

Top
#2031732 - 02/12/13 09:39 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: theJourney]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6335
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: theJourney

Pop music is heroic, accessible, ubiquitous, forward-looking, free, open and relevant.

Relevant to what???? Most of it may be relevant for the moment - but it quickly becomes passe, largely forgotten, and replaced by something else with a similarly short lifespan. That's why I personally don't follow it anymore.
Quote:
Classical music is passe, fussy, formal, confining, prissy, closed and irrelevant.

Sure, whatever - but it seems to have great "staying" power amongst those who make the effort to understand and appreciate it.
Quote:
Liberace is the limp-wristed hood ornament on the classical piano vehicle in the public's unconscious mind's eye.
Elton John, despite the funny eyeglasses and the husband, has us humming the tunes rather than rolling our eyes.

Society has changed dramatically (did I say DRAMATICALLY ?) since the 1950's. As timed marched on, even Liberace became more flamboyant and over the top in his public persona - without losing his appeal to general audiences. And, anyway, the "public" that you are referring to is dying off - and most young folks today don't even have a clue who Liberace was.
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

Top
Page 7 of 14 < 1 2 ... 5 6 7 8 9 ... 13 14 >

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
ad (Casio)
Celviano by Casio Rebate
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Chrono Trigger piano medley
by Stefo
09/18/14 04:44 PM
need help with deciding between digital and acoustic
by luvboise713
09/18/14 04:16 PM
Sight reading problems
by pianosNpreschooler
09/18/14 03:23 PM
Hello! I have a question about playing for cocktail parties.
by albumblatter
09/18/14 03:10 PM
Piano Concerto in F, Op. 2 Arensky, Anton
by antony
09/18/14 02:33 PM
Who's Online
154 registered (ahrensjt, A Guy, 36251, accordeur, ajames, aesop, 38 invisible), 1394 Guests and 17 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76237 Members
42 Forums
157608 Topics
2315057 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission