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#2030755 - 02/10/13 07:34 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Ken Knapp Offline



Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 2246
Loc: Pennsylvania
I think this is a fun topic and Keith has done a good job with giving us a little humor. If this were an every day occurrence, then maybe things would be looked at differently.

If we can't have fun on here then I will turn in my Piano World Secret Decoder Ring.
_________________________
Ken

Piano Organ Depot
http://www.pianoorgandepot.com
Hammond Organ Technician
http://www.tonewheeltech.com
Vice President - MITA, International
http://www.mitatechs.org
http://www.facebook.com/MITATechs

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#2030820 - 02/10/13 10:11 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14139
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
I think this is a fun topic and Keith has done a good job with giving us a little humor. If this were an every day occurrence, then maybe things would be looked at differently.

If we can't have fun on here then I will turn in my Piano World Secret Decoder Ring.


thumb

P.S. For those wishing to disagree, there's always the "Funeral Home Forum"....

http://www.simefuneralforum.com/

Norbert smirk


Edited by Norbert (02/10/13 10:50 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2030821 - 02/10/13 10:15 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8569
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Ken Knapp
I think this is a fun topic and Keith has done a good job with giving us a little humor. If this were an every day occurrence, then maybe things would be looked at differently.

If we can't have fun on here then I will turn in my Piano World Secret Decoder Ring.

Amen! smile

My motto... pianos are a lot of fun; better yet, Piano World is a lot of fun! smile

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#2030823 - 02/10/13 10:24 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
RJ10 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/25/12
Posts: 44
Loc: Chicago, IL
Keith - Thanks for the fun post. I was a bit worried when I read the subject, but it turned out okay in the end. Always good to hear excitement and praise for finely made pianos. I, too, have had the opportunity to test drive the Steingraeber pianos and found them to be wonderfully responsive with the combination of a very focused tone and a wide tonal palette. Very enjoyable to play.

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#2030882 - 02/11/13 01:00 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7224
Loc: torrance, CA
Keith,

Thank you for your lengthly reply. It's good to see you get a workout at the keyboard (computer keyboard, that is). I'm afraid you missed my point completely though.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a piano purchase that exceeds logic. I never said there was. What is wrong is someone selling such a piano rattling off names of the composers he played on that piano, each performance better than the last, while giving no clue as to what made the piano special.

You write you were stunned by both pianos. You have written in the past that you personally select your Steingraebers at the factory showroom in Germany. In the course of selecting them, one might assume that you play them. I wonder why opening what you had previously selected would stun you?

You're a piano seller. You may be a player as well, but when Piano Craft crafts a video, it's Shaun, not Keith. I even recall a video you uploaded here with Sam Powell playing some neat stuff on a Steinway your shop had worked on. Yet I find no signs of musical life on the Internet of the guy who rattles off "Bach, Brahms, Mozart, Bartok, Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff and more and each sounded better than the last" What is it? Shyness?

The challenge in my post was to put your piano keys where you put your computer keys -- on display in a performance video. If you've got the chops, flaunt them. If not, then you're just selling the old illlusion that the better piano in and of itself makes you a better pianist. It may make the same performance sound better, or more palatable at least, but if the piano is the real thing, harnessing its capability will involve a learning curve. Price of ownership gets you nowhere as a player.

A video might also provide a clue as to what makes these two partiulcar Steingraebers stand out. Surely it's not Piano Craft's renowned 'customization' since these babies are fresh from their cartes. What exactly it is would be useful to know since you've provided nothing in that regard with your computer keyboard.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#2030903 - 02/11/13 02:09 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: turandot]
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 3334
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
Originally Posted By: turandot
I'm afraid you missed my point completely though.


Err........I got your point exactly. Your point was to suck the fun out of this thread. And you have succeeded. You have sucked the fun out of what eveyone else understood instantly to be me goofing around and trying to be entertaining with sincere enthusiasm, and yes, shoot me, a bit of intentionally obvious salesmanship which was pretty much pointed out in just about every response starting with the first . Way to go thumb

FWIW, Shaun Tirrell flew to Bayreuth to choose these instruments, so I hadn't yet played them. I only had reports that they were, well, mind blowing and beyond what I had previously experienced with Steingraebers.

I never said "performance", you added that. I never said anything about the quality of my playing. Each composer sounding better than the last is not a comment on my playing. It is a comment on how the Steingraeber worked great with the music of these different composers. It is a comment on my growing excitement the longer I played.
If I said I tried on several different suits, Armani, Hugo Boss, Ralph Lauren etc in front of a special mirror, with special lighting, and each looked better than the last, it in no way implies that I think I look like Brad Pitt. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you misunderstood what I wrote, and/or what I wrote was unclear.

As for my putting a video of me playing for all to see, I'd like to do that. If I feel I have something good enough, I'll do just that.
In the mean time, you have nearly 7000 posts here, many alluding to your deep understanding of the relationship or lack thereof between the quality of one's playing and the quality of the piano on which they are playing. I can't remember ever seeing a video of you playing. If you put a video of you playing the piano here for all to see, it just might inspire me to do the same.
_________________________
Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales of vintage and pre-owned Steinway and Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Charles R. Walter, Brodmann, Feurich
www.pianocraft.net
http://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel/videos

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460

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#2030916 - 02/11/13 02:45 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7224
Loc: torrance, CA
Quote:
you have nearly 7000 posts here, many alluding to your deep understanding of the relationship or lack thereof between the quality of one's playing and the quality of the piano on which they are playing


That's news to me. I guess you got the post count right although it's usually another member who refers to post counts and estimates how many were of a particular type.

My 'deep' understanding is that the player makes the music and is supported to different degrees by different pianos. I don't feel that's very deep at all. It's fundamental. It's also pretty obvious that a top notch player on a mediocre piano is far more interesting to listen to than a hack on a top grade piano.

Today I went to hear Ben Grosvenor. He has it. He's still a little rough on the edges, but he has it. The piano was an average Steinway D, not a fussed-over C&A, just average. It didn't matter. He has it. He made it work. The piano disappeared into the music. The link was between the pianist and the music. He's an artist, a very young one, but he's an artist.

You sell pianos. Your 'fun' was to promote your new arrivals at your place of business. If your intent is to sell them, do it honestly and at least give some information about what makes them special. If your intent is not to sell them, explain what your intent is.

As for what everyone else thinks, it's irrelevant to my honest opinion. I guess it's not to you.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#2030926 - 02/11/13 03:32 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 3334
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
Tdot, you win. I don't have the time or energy for this and apparently I also lack the common sense to avoid getting provoked into this type of nonsense. After being away from here for quite a while, I was enjoying participating again. There is nothing enjoyable or of any value with this exchange. I didn't remember you as being so humorless.
If I choose to participate here again, I would respectfully request that you just ignore me. I will give you the same courtesy. If you don't respond again in this thread, I will take it that you agree to my request.
_________________________
Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales of vintage and pre-owned Steinway and Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Charles R. Walter, Brodmann, Feurich
www.pianocraft.net
http://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel/videos

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460

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#2030937 - 02/11/13 05:01 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
Wanting to add something positive and at least as spectacular as Keith's experience with Steingraeber: 'The Ring Project' set up by Dynaudio, the famous Danish loudspeaker manufacturer on the occasion of the Wagner year in Bayreuth.

The 'Ring of the Nibelung' in a transcription for two pinaos by Hermann Behn (1914) is performed on two Steingraeber Liszt concert grands.

For a complete overview of the project, see:
Dynaudio press service site

Should you want to hear some sound samples or by the CD (released January 2013), see:
Dynaudio records

schwammerl.

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#2030951 - 02/11/13 06:19 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
rocklandpiano Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/26/13
Posts: 19
Steingraeber and Hurstwood Farm Pianos have a very close relationship.
Steingraeber build what is recognised as the World's most technically advanced piano, the Steingraeber-Phoenix under licence from Hurstwood Farm.
The special features of this piano are bridge agraffes that transmit vibration energy from the strings to the soundboard much more efficiently than conventional bridge pins , yet at the same time do this without the ususal major stress load downbearing on the soundboard suffered by traditional build pianos.
_________________________
Piano players in Monsey, New York have relied on Charles Flaum since before 1990 for piano tuning, piano repairs and sage piano advice. Monsey, a family oriented village in Rockland County, is full of piano lovers with cherished pianos in their homes..

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#2030958 - 02/11/13 06:58 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4978
Loc: boston north
I got it!

Having met Keith, having played several Steingraebers, having been to PianoCraft and the Steingraeber factory, I got it!

Tdot, you are a sourpuss today.

KK, I totally understood the excitement of losing time and being in the moment of discovering what a piano can do to inspire you. And I thought your post funny and sincere! Yes, I know your schooling, believe your talent, and realize your enthusiasm as a salesperson is sincere. You love music. You love playing and you love your instruments of choice. And what's not to love about a Steingraeber?

I have always enjoyed your posts here. Don't stop now!

And, believe you me, I'd have a Steingraeber in a flash, if I could afford one! Now, do tell, have you decided which of these going to your place?
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#2030967 - 02/11/13 07:33 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: schwammerl]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5279
Originally Posted By: schwammerl
Wanting to add something positive and at least as spectacular as Keith's experience with Steingraeber: 'The Ring Project' set up by Dynaudio, the famous Danish loudspeaker manufacturer on the occasion of the Wagner year in Bayreuth.

The 'Ring of the Nibelung' in a transcription for two pinaos by Hermann Behn (1914) is performed on two Steingraeber Liszt concert grands.

For a complete overview of the project, see:
Dynaudio press service site

Should you want to hear some sound samples or by the CD (released January 2013), see:
Dynaudio records

schwammerl.


Thanks for that. Wagner and Steingraeber is an unbeatable combination - especially in The Ride of the Valkyries which I have been massacring on my digital piano, waiting for the day when I can get myself a real grand....a Steingraeber (if I don't get a Bösendorfer Imperial grin).
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2030981 - 02/11/13 08:12 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1777
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
German Amazon appears unwilling to ship the Steingraeber Ring project to the U.S. -- anyone else have any success there?

In the meantime, there's this:

http://www.amazon.de/Parsifal-Goes-La-Ha...8392&sr=8-1


Edited by ClsscLib (02/11/13 08:13 AM)
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2030987 - 02/11/13 08:31 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Rickster]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1117
Loc: chicago, il
Originally Posted By: Rickster
Originally Posted By: Ken Knapp
I think this is a fun topic and Keith has done a good job with giving us a little humor. If this were an every day occurrence, then maybe things would be looked at differently.

If we can't have fun on here then I will turn in my Piano World Secret Decoder Ring.

Amen! smile

My motto... pianos are a lot of fun; better yet, Piano World is a lot of fun! smile Rick


for the record, my post was not to deflate keith's crafty promotion but simply point out that other dealers are judged by different standards here. jeff tausch, whom i know, and know his fine store, is as enthusiastic about his product line as keith, albeit much more forthright in touting his wares when posting, for example, about new yamahas or yamaha tech. yet he invariably gets his hand slapped for 'advertising' when he is (overly?) exuberantly posting about a product.

my point is that guidelines of this nature should be based on substance (e.g. accuracy & truthfulness of the content) and not style, so that those who have a commercial interest here understand what rules they're playing by, and they're equally applied to all.
_________________________
diary of an amateur pianist

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#2031008 - 02/11/13 09:22 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8569
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Entheo
for the record, my post was not to deflate keith's crafty promotion but simply point out that other dealers are judged by different standards here. jeff tausch, whom i know, and know his fine store, is as enthusiastic about his product line as keith, albeit much more forthright in touting his wares when posting, for example, about new yamahas or yamaha tech. yet he invariably gets his hand slapped for 'advertising' when he is (overly?) exuberantly posting about a product.

my point is that guidelines of this nature should be based on substance (e.g. accuracy & truthfulness of the content) and not style, so that those who have a commercial interest here understand what rules they're playing by, and they're equally applied to all.

Entheo, your point is well taken and Jeff Tausch, or any of our dealer members here are free to post enthusiastic announcements about product changes, new products or whatever. However, when it comes to interpretation, that is a more complicated issue…

Fact is, we all promote ourselves here in some form or fashion, but where is the line between self promotion and advertising? Like I said, there is no hard and fast rule… it is a matter of interpretation.

Now, on the other hand, there is such a thing as blatant advertising. That rarely occurs here with our dealer members, but it does occur. I might also add that PW would not be the same without our dealer members. They are a very important asset to this forum.

So, is it subtle advertising or self-promotion or both? Again, it is a matter of interpretation.

Ken Knapp brought up an important point… consistency.

As a moderator here, I know that not everyone will agree with my decisions (when moderator action is taken). Maybe I need a pay raise… smile

Don’t know if this makes you feel any better or not, but it is what it is…

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#2031031 - 02/11/13 09:48 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Dale Fox Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 1065
Loc: Nor California Sacramento area
Rickster,
please double your current salary. ;p

Keith,

loved the post. Too bad a sense of humor isn't a prerequisite for visiting PW.
_________________________
Dale Fox
Registered Piano Technician
Remanufacturing/Rebuilding

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#2031044 - 02/11/13 10:15 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7224
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Keith D Kerman

If I choose to participate here again, I would respectfully request that you just ignore me. I will give you the same courtesy. If you don't respond again in this thread, I will take it that you agree to my request.


What's this? The threat of you not posting here if you garner less than universal agreement and appobation? grin If, as you say, I was the only dissenting vote and your purpose was to get as favorable a response as possible, you should have settled for 100% minus one. You didn't have to fire off a 75 line retort (plus the quotes that dissected my 15 lines).

I'll meet you halfway on this. I will not ignore your posts. They can be quite instructive, among the most thought-provoking I read here. Upon your return from your hiatus, I read your post on the donimoes that fall to make low-production pianos so expensive. It was instructive and (sorry)logical

So I'll read your posts, but I will not respond to them so as to avoid being the minus one factor.

Whether you read mine or not is completely up to you. I have no control over that. I'm certainly not out to get you. I simply disagreed with your approach here.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#2031055 - 02/11/13 10:40 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
"appobation" ?

"donimoes" ?

I suggest the complete OED.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2031067 - 02/11/13 10:55 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: turandot]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2338
Loc: SoCal
Originally Posted By: turandot

My 'deep' understanding is that the player makes the music and is supported to different degrees by different pianos. I don't feel that's very deep at all. It's fundamental. It's also pretty obvious that a top notch player on a mediocre piano is far more interesting to listen to than a hack on a top grade piano.


I was actually thinking about this thread last night.

A couple of years ago, through some sort of obvious miscommunication, I wound up at a fancy party in San Marino. The kind of party where waiters bring drinks and hors d'oeuvres around to you. There was a beautiful Steinway B there. I asked the host, and he said nobody in the house played. So, basically, it just sat there looking impressive.

Last night I was at a more modest potluck party with a bunch of old climbers and mountaineers. In this home sat a Samick baby grand, on the music desk was a Schirmer edition of Diabelli Sonatinas the hostess was studiously working through. She loves Diabelli. There was a stack of other music on the desk as well, all the usual suspects, Bach, Chopin, Beethoven. She talked about getting lost in the music for hours at a time. She's played all her life.

That Samick must be a wonderful piano.
_________________________
Gary

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#2031098 - 02/11/13 11:56 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Plowboy]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1777
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: Plowboy
Originally Posted By: turandot

My 'deep' understanding is that the player makes the music and is supported to different degrees by different pianos. I don't feel that's very deep at all. It's fundamental. It's also pretty obvious that a top notch player on a mediocre piano is far more interesting to listen to than a hack on a top grade piano.


I was actually thinking about this thread last night.

A couple of years ago, through some sort of obvious miscommunication, I wound up at a fancy party in San Marino. The kind of party where waiters bring drinks and hors d'oeuvres around to you. There was a beautiful Steinway B there. I asked the host, and he said nobody in the house played. So, basically, it just sat there looking impressive.

Last night I was at a more modest potluck party with a bunch of old climbers and mountaineers. In this home sat a Samick baby grand, on the music desk was a Schirmer edition of Diabelli Sonatinas the hostess was studiously working through. She loves Diabelli. There was a stack of other music on the desk as well, all the usual suspects, Bach, Chopin, Beethoven. She talked about getting lost in the music for hours at a time. She's played all her life.

That Samick must be a wonderful piano.


Great story and a very valid point.

On the other hand, having a piano that you truly love really can help inspire someone to play more than they otherwise might and to derive greater enjoyment the experience than might otherwise happen.

All music is good and all pianos are good, but it's frequently said here that -- all other things being equal -- people should get the best piano they can comfortably afford. That still seems like good advice to me.
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2031216 - 02/11/13 03:04 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14139
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
My 'deep' understanding is that the player makes the music and is supported to different degrees by different pianos. I don't feel that's very deep at all. It's fundamental. It's also pretty obvious that a top notch player on a mediocre piano is far more interesting to listen to than a hack on a top grade piano.


While this is entirely true, it's still nice to hear a good pianist on a good piano.

Or a great one on a great one...

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/Cellphonepictures045.jpg

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (02/11/13 03:55 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2031558 - 02/11/13 11:57 PM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Plowboy]
jmcintyre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 228
Loc: Wash. DC area
Originally Posted By: Plowboy
That Samick must be a wonderful piano.


Thanks for a great post. "If you can't be with the one you love, honey, love the one you're with."
_________________________
I'd rather be practicing wink
Kawai K-3, Roland FP-7F
Now: Brahms Op. 118, Bach French Suite #5

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#2031740 - 02/12/13 10:06 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: ClsscLib]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7224
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
Will this do, T-dot? You won't find this one on the PianoCraft floor, though, since it's been carried off by Steingraeber pirates:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUAy-mDIozs

The "about" section is missing from this video, but I can tell you that it's a Steingraeber C-212.



As a matter of fact, it will do.

It's amusing that you ask for confirmation on that particular piano for two reasons.

First, I believe that you were the "pirate" that carried it off leaving behind your Avant. It seems to me that you should be asking yourself, not others, if it will do.

Second, before the piano was sold, Keith presented the same video on the Piano Forum as a thread opener. I recall it well because the piano made quite a statement about itself through the hands and mind of Mr. Tirrell. What you may find ironic is that I expressed a very positive honest reaction to that piano on that thead. You may further find the following exchange to be informative reading. My comments are in italics. Keith's are in bold.
_________________

Hey Keith,

What a sterling presentation of that piano!

First of all, the visual setting. I'm not a fan of the shape of grand pianos or the impact that a grand piano has on a room, but this setting is just wonderful, and that Steingraeber with that finish and presented on its short stick has a very pleasing visual line.

Second, the artist. Mr. Tirrell makes Chopin the star. His manner never distracts from the music. His movements are compact with no flamboyance. His playing is secure and confident without being aloof. His phrasing shows an introspective approach that puts Chopin's message first and foremost.

Third, the piano. In listening (3 times now) I really got into the shape of the tone and the length of the decay. They worked so well together!. IMO the sustain was long enough to support the flow of the music without being so long that it interfered with an appreciation of all the notes and their dynamics. Although all three Mazurkas demonstrated this and the second one played is a personal favorite of mine, I thought the last one in particular showcased the balance of fundamental tone and an appropriate sustain.

Last, I don't know to what extent it was the touch control of Mr. Tirrell and to what extent it was the preparation of the piano, but it was noticeable to me that this piano was in no way as percussively bright as a new Steingraeber grand can be.

In that vein, I have a question for you. (Go figure ). With regard to this piano as played, where did preparation end and customization begin? I ask that because I know you choose your Steingraebers at the factory and I have heard from others that Mr. Steingaeber will see to it that his pianos are prepped to the liking of his retailer customer before they leave the factory.


Hi Turandot,

Thanks for the nice comments. Your observation about the balance and shape of the tone on this piano was dead on, and Im kind of shocked and pleased that you were able to get that from a YouTube video.


As for what you are describing as a percussive brilliance that you normally hear in Steingraebers, I assure you, that sound is definately available in this piano should the pianist desire it, and it is an important part of the Steingraeber tone. However, we have set this piano up a bit differently from how they come from the factory and the pianist has to work a bit harder to get that sound. It is interesting that you made that comment because Udo Steingraeber also noticed this. We demonstrated to him that it was still in his piano, only it required a bit more effort than normal to achieve. He was delighted.
It is important to note that we don't customize all our Steingraebers and we have sold many that nothing more than basic work was done, and those clients are quite happy.
The post above this one hopefully answers your other questions.


Oh Ye of little faith!

Sennhrisers helped, and it is. after all. a very fine recording. And that piano..........is a knockout.

Yes, Keith. Many thanks. All my questions have been answered. Some of them had already been answered in your post to Emmanuel Ravelli.

My suspicions have also been confirmed once again. You are one dangerous hombre.


_______________

That thread evoked a lot of positive comments about what I believe is now your piano. So, if you need reinforcement on your decision (and I certainly don't think you should), you might enjoy reading the whole of it.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1732779/1.html

In reviewing this particular Steingraeber thread (which is how I came across your post), I noticed that comments have been directed to appreciation of humor, an endorsement of the brand from a few who state a familiarity with it, comments alluding to what a party-pooper I am, and a banal comment on my typo by an apostle of pedantry. There also seem to be a few posts with stirrings of possible inappropriate self-promoton, and a moderator response that a story of a piano love affair that ultimately cracks your cranium can be a fine and fun thing. Finally, there are Keith's own responses which place him at the podium addressing the PW multitude and me as the lone heckler in the back of the room.

I'm not so sure I see it that way. There are after all thousands of page views and a few dozen individuals responding. It's conceivable that among the silent multitude there is a fair bit of appreciation for Gary' story of that homely Samick, although surely not as much as for the Steingraeber that lured a grown man to a cave. grin I do support the moderators though that there's not enough smoke here to make a fire. People don't lay down significant coin on a piano because it may split open their melons (although people choose a given piano for some strange reasons). The salesmanship that Keith owned up to -- it may stir up some brand curiosity, but that's not a bad thing even for the other silent Steingraeber retailers who may be wincing at his approach here.

Anyway, to answer your question, it's good enough. By all means it's good enough. Enjoy that piano. Work hard to make yourself its equal and you'll enjoy it even more.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#2031753 - 02/12/13 10:32 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Aah - The announcement from the Heights of Olympus.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2031754 - 02/12/13 10:32 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Keith D Kerman]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1777
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
I'm trying, T-dot, thanks.

For the record, I enjoyed Gary's post about the Samick as much as anyone, as I noted above.

In addition, I need no reinforcement on my decision to choose this piano, as I've already stated at length in another thread. I haven't played as many pianos as some, but this is the best piano my hands have ever touched. I couldn't be happier with it, and nothing I've said suggests otherwise.

You asked for a video, and I posted one. I'm glad you like it.


Edited by ClsscLib (02/12/13 11:12 AM)
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2031766 - 02/12/13 10:52 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1536
Loc: Danville, California
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Aah - The announcement from the Heights of Olympus.


Marty:

Or perhaps Mount Hubris

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#2031770 - 02/12/13 11:16 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: turandot]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17786
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Keith, I enjoyed your post (humor is always a nice touch), and I welcome all your posts. You make a lot of positive contributions to the forum. Please don't let a cranky detractor keep you from participating in the future. smile

Signed,
One of the silent multitude.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#2031772 - 02/12/13 11:17 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Furtwangler]
Karl Watson Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 351
To whom it may concern:

The level of repulsive vitriol that our forum now supports is something that I find so profoundly hurtful that I will never visit this sight again. Decent ladies and gentlemen simply do not speak or write in such a manner.

Why is it that is seems to be the most admired and indisputable authorities in the piano world that are attacked in such a manner ? Who cares if Keith is a retailer ? Havewe all lost the love of our instrument that we can condemn one of its devoted servants ? The pianos that this man has provided sustain and nurture artists that NONE of us here can approach.

The video of Shaun Terrill playing the Steingraeber certainly indicates that the piano is special. However, is it totally lost that his playing is simply off the charts in its beauty and naturalness ? However talented the young British pianist is, he could learn MUCH from listening to Shaun Terrill for 30 seconds. Have any of you heard his Rachmaninov Sonata, played on a not particularly remarkable concert grand and in an appalling acoustic ? It is stupendous playing.

It seems that the dog biscuit tribe simply must attack the Tiffany diamonds. Well, you can do it WITHOUT this particular audience member. This is roman coliseum stuff.

Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY

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#2031777 - 02/12/13 11:29 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: Karl Watson]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1777
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Step off the ledge, please, Karl. In this thread you see a lot of positive, constructive comments and one or two curmudgeonly posts. That's just the internet, and this site is better than most.

If you let the few bad-apple postings chase you away, then that perspective prevails.

Don't go. We need you here.


Edited by ClsscLib (02/12/13 11:43 AM)
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2031794 - 02/12/13 11:57 AM Re: Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano [Re: ClsscLib]
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10490
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib

In addition, I need no reinforcement on my decision to choose this piano, as I've already stated at length in another thread.


That's not the way I remember it!!! grin
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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