Rebuilders -
I have been thinking about developing and building a simple pounding in machine. It would really be advantageous for a shop to have a machine that pounds every key about 20-30,000 times after regulation and first voicing, to stabilize the tuning, bring action and key felts to the state of compression they will eventually attain, pound in the voicing etc. Then fine regulate, tune and voice and you can send the piano out to the client and not have to worry about major changes in the first months of playing.

This is what factories do, and it makes real sense. Would there be a market for such a machine? What would it be worth to a rebuilding shop?

I've been thinking of making my own. Mason & Hamlin has a nice machine based on a series of cams. Never gotten around to it to this point. I figure it would take me about two days of labor to build once I get the design on paper. Parts wouldn't be that big an expense. So it would have to cost less than the two days labor it would take to build myself????

I use a Playola that works great. I have a disk I play at night that pounds in the notes for 10 hours.
What I like is it also plays music during the day.
I have over 5000 songs on disks.

I paid $1,500 for a used one and felt it was worth every bit of that.

I've thought about it for years! It's a great idea Jurgen.

Rod - do they still make Playolas?

Okay, it´s not the same like a machine, but it helps to work all new felts (excepted the hammer felts)and leather with a hammer. Just pounding them with a hammer on the work bench.

Gregor

Just bring your niece's and nephews under the age of five over, they always like to pound on mine when they visit....

Anybody have a picture of one that piano manufactures use? All I can think of is that scene from Barbarella!

Sign me up..

Sally

Here is a video:

http://www.wendl-lung.com/jart/prj3/wend...rve-mode=active

Gregor

Thanks, Gregor!

Hey everyone, there is a model of an upright action with a true repetition lever on that site!

Here's the model mentioned by Jeff:



Do you think that action could be troublesome?

I think so. I've been using one for about 15 years now.

ddf

Unright or Erus,

You should really start a new thread with that action model. To me, it looks like it would be difficult to regulate, especially drop and let-off. I think the Fandrich action is simpler, easier to regulate and more elegant.

Yep, PianoDisc makes them. Way to much money for what we need them for.

They do?

ddf

I believe it was a QRS product, not Pianodisc. I don't see it on the website currently.

Sorry I meant QRS

http://www.pianosupply.com/playola/

Yeah, $4200 is a chunk of change. You could hire a lot of child labor for that amount.

This one is for sale on ebay. Still $3,000.00

Jurgen, I'm certainly interested, but don't go into production for me! I am getting started at rebuilding, and expect to be full time when I retire from my current job in about 5 years. Anyway I'd think every rebuilder needs one. Priorities and money are the thing. I'd think that you need to come in at less than $1000 - $1500. More than that and this inventive crowd will probably be in the DIY camp. Just my guess.

Yes, I was thinking in that ball park.

If it is the floor model I visualize, it will need to have a certain amount of mass to keep it stable. Which means that shipping cost could stifle the sales potential for the machine.

Perhaps just produce blueprints for techs to build the machine or have it built for them locally?

Sorry my good friend but before you get into business.

You mean like this?



When built it looks like this.



And Sounds like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a_uTTMT30A&feature=player_embedded

Or leave a shelf or box that could be filled with sand or rocks.

Personally, I am not interested. If a part sticks, it will stick when it is pounded, so it will not wear in anyway.

It has nothing to do with sticking parts. If parts are sticking, your repair and regulation is incomplete. Finish doing that work before you hit the switch of the pounding machine.

Pounding machines are used to play all keys vigorously, usually about 20,000 times or so, after which a final regulation, voicing and of course tuning takes place. This will result in a piano that is much, much more stable in tuning, touch, and voicing after delivery.

I see that Rod has found a source for such a machine that I was not aware of. Thanks Rod!

Pounder refrain

Kind of catchy. Reminds me of...

Never mind

Hi! I´like to revive this post because Im restoring about 20 pianos for an institute, and after replace all felt and bulkskin from the action i have to regulate again about a month of use, but they don´t play all the keys and the compression on the felt is not even. Who wants to wait and regulate over and over

I have draw some ideas of a 2 lever pouding machine like the one on the video but to be place on top of the piano to avoid that big box. I haven´t build nothing yet,

I´ll love a electronic one with solenoids but still to expensive and more living in mexico, I have talk to a WN&G tech and they have design a pounder over the pianodisk system, the hardest part is to hold down the solenoids up side down with springs.

The playola is too old and for the price, the lx system is far less expensive than that and better,

Who has more ideas, pictures or drawings of your machines? I guess most if not all restorers should have one on the shop.

someone here has an old (but not to old) un-used pianodisk system or parts sitting around the shop getting dusty I´ll be interested

I´ll apreciate your comment

Thanks

I learned to pound with 2 hand pounders, then a regulation pass is necessary. And earplugs
Keyboards are stabilized with a long lever that push on the underside of the pinblock and an adapted woodblock above the balance (als used to lower a key that is only a little high) balance punchings where ironed before installation, also , it does not make them so even but it helps.

Using first grade paper punching is also a must. The ones sold by Yamaha are good, not too sensitive to moisture and rigid enough.

The machine pounding is more efficient for the hammers and the action, but hand pounding can be firm , also on a new stringed piano you have to tune hard 4 times and that pound also , regulation passes and voicing are inserted between those tunings. I will pass the exact procedure.

So I always have think I need a machine, but can live without it.
I believe the machine pound not so hard, also , I asked how many strokes and had no precise answer, but even 10000 have been said to me too much.

Do someone know an exact range ?



Ps felted blocks in wood (leaded) are placed on the strings to avoid too much noise , it also make the pounding more efficient. (not anyone agree on this, but the noise is really too much, I also dont like to pound strong on bass strings)

The idea of the pounder is to effectively and quickly put the equivalent of 10, 20 or more hours of playing onto the new or re-built piano. In factories, this noisy process is done in sound insulated rooms. It seems they want the strings to resonate freely.
At two blows per second, a pounder can rack up 10,000 keystrokes for every key in short order (extended lunch break!).
This would be hard to beat pounding by hand.

Sure Jurgen , at 7200 impact one hour, I dont compete...

Then :

I hit several times before regulation to check the jack alignment

Then after finishing regulation I do the first tuning with tough strike

After that I do the damper works – then a second tuning with hard strike

Then second regulation and pre-toning, after that a third tough tuning

After that the finish regulation, finish damper regulation and finish voicing.

Now if you have counted well – the amount is a little less than 10000 …..

The reason is that regulation stability comes with time and in the correct relation between strike power to strike amount.

Too much is not automatically better.

( I am just jealous
 

...but not enough is automatically worse!... I kind of wish I had a pounder too...