Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1

Can someone please address my questions?

Nguyen - I saw that you mentioned Piano Adventures but there are alots of books on there and if you're comparing PA to Alfred's AIO, why isn't the basic series of Alfred's spoken about. I'm just curious. There happens to be theory, lesson, advanced and all in the PA series, it's a little intimidating, I don't know which to look into.

What is the difference between the AIO and Alfred's Self-Teaching Adult Piano Course http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/look_inside/18400506/image/99489

I'm learning this on my own so I don't know what I need to understand when playing a song say, Mary had a little lamb. The signature is 4/4 but I do not know how fast to play it or how long to hold one key, might be a weird question, but I'm just beginning so can someone help me out.

I'm also wondering about my previous question about learning on a keyboard and I'm missing a sustain pedal too, is this really important?

Thanks!

Thanks for that comment JimF. My teacher seems to agree with you. I am four pieces away from finishing my Alfred Level 1 book and she told me last night that we would NOT be using level 2, for that exact reason!! She wasn't sure what she would replace it with (another program or simply pieces she has chosen that exemplify aspects of the theory I am learning).
Just for the record, I really have enjoyed Alfred. It contains quite a bit of music that I haven't enjoyed playing, but it is very systematic and organized in terms of the theory content.
I passed Greensleeves and The Stranger last night. For the first time my teacher said "That was just beautiful....perfect!" I struggled with the overlapping pedal of Greensleeves and the timing in the left hand of The Stranger, but by lesson time, I had managed to get both down pretty well.

Flowerpoddess, the Alfred Self Teaching Course is bnsically the Adult AIO with some extra "study guides" for the pieces, and I think it has three extra pieces at the end. It's fairly new, and most of us who have "graduated" from Book 1 had our books before it came out. So far, Book 1 is all there is in the self teaching.

I'll let Nguyen answer you question about the PA more thoroughly, but I do know that he researched it and found that most teachers on PW who used a method book at all preferred PA over Alfred.

Jim, I humbly think this isn’t a problem but rather a lack of focus of the Adult series. Adult series (the Alfred at least) tend to leave out rigorous, adequate, all around training a serious pianist is required to fulfill. My opinion (not experience, just from reading), is that these tailor towards casual self fulfillment, play for oneself mentality. If an adult series is put together thoroughly, going the whole nine yards, many adults may shy from it for difficulties.

This is the question I have been asking, why are there Basic series for children, then Later Beginners series for teenagers, then Adult series for Adults? Why can’t teenagers and adults learn from the graded methods of the kids’ versions?

The answer I found is that we don’t have the patience and maybe, just maybe, the abilities to learn like kids anymore, so we choose the short-cut. This is why adult method books were written, to tailor to our needs for instant music, not years of preparation to get music.

Perhaps I’m wrong, but this is the impression I get from reading, from suspecting why there are many methods out there.

Hi again folks

Another week or so into my studies and I feel that I'm making reasonable progress. As a reminder, I'm not going to a teacher (don't have one anywhere near me) and I'm learning with the AIO book and judicious use of YouTube videos.

I've got a question though that I hope someone may be able to answer (apologies if it's been asked here before, but I couldn't find it when I searched).

I've reached the stage in the book where I'm informed that I'm now ready to begin the first piece in the Greatest Hits book (which I have) - Love Me Tender.

I practised it for about an hour last night, and gave a passable rendition of it; the only thing is, I'm not sure of the finger positions for it. Up until now in the book, I've been learning "C-position" and "G-position", but this song (which is specifically targeted at my level of knowledge) would (after much confusion on my part, trying to figure it out) seem to be best played with both left and right thumbs positioned on the D above middle C, which is definitely not something that's been mentioned in the book.

Is this right? Am I completely on the wrong track? Or is the Greatest Hits book not quite as tightly integrated with the AOI book as I'd originally hoped?

Cheers

Hi Flowerpoddess, sorry I didn’t see your question before this post. Here are a few answers to your questions. Please bear in mind that these are not my experiences, just through asking, reading, and maybe some experiences with this Alfred book 1.

When I did my method search, I was searching for a favorable method by teachers only, not all methods. Once I decided Piano Adventures, my search was pretty much done. So, I really don’t have any knowledge of the Alfred Basic series.

For Piano Adventures, I will list the 3 methods for 3 different age groups.

The PA Basic series: Primer to start around age 5-6, Level 1, Levels 2A & 2B, Level 3A & 3B, Level 4 and finally Level 5.

The PA Accelerated series: There are Book 1 and Book 2. These are for teenagers, young adults.

The PA Adult series: Also Book1 and Book2. These are for us adult beginners.

To start from scratch, you only need the Adult Book1, this book should cover theories, techniques, necessary practices and lessons, All-In-One book.

I’m not quite sure what you mean here. I’ll try my best. If you decide to teach yourself with the Adult book, get the Adult Piano Adventures – “All-In-One” Lesson Book 1. This is all you need.

If you go the basic series, you need at least 2 books, The Lesson Book and the Theory Book, for any level. Then you can always add the Technique and Artistry to improve techniques. This book is almost the same as a hand/finger exercise book. And you can also add the Popular Repertoire book. This book is your repertoire of known pieces/songs that you add to your repertoire for self or family/friend entertainments.

How fast and slow tempo isn’t as important as steady tempo. So go slow but steady. Simply put, 4/4 is 4 beats each measure/bar. So you just count 1 – 2 – 3 – 4 and repeat 1 – 2 – 3 – 4. The 1 and the 2 and the 3 and the 4 have to have equal length of time. One can not be longer or shorter than others. Go as slow as you can at first to play the notes right. Once your hands can follow the counts properly, then increase speed until it sounds right you to. That usually is the right tempo, once it sounds right and musical to you. I advise getting the book with the CD, if you don’t know the tempo, you can always try to get it to the CD tempo. CD tempo has to be right.

If you don’t know time value of the notes, ask again and we will walk you through.

For the first half of Alfred book 1, you can do without pedal. Once you get to around the middle of the book, you need a piano/keyboard with a pedal to develop pedaling technique. Some pieces/songs don’t sound right or musical without pedaling.

Hope I answer everything.

P.S. I order all my books at www.methodbooks.com. I found this website simple and easy to navigate around. They only sell Piano methods so it's not as confusing.

Hi Sorenlorensen, I believe that piece is to be played in the Middle C position, to be introduced a little bit later in the Book. I know the lesson book sometimes states you are ready to start Greatest Hits and such, but it usually takes a few more lessons deeper in the book to figure out the pieces in the other supplemental books. Flip forward a couple of pages, you might find your answers.

First off I agree. the basic fact is that the Adult "teach yourself" books are marketed directly to adults who can't play piano. The book has to appeal to those buyers.

But there is more to it.

Adults can learn something very quickly that small children simply can't learn.

For example If I'd ask you for the "V" chord, second inversion in key of Bb. You could teach an adult in 20 minutes how to figure that out but you'd be explaining it to a 5 year old until he was 9 or 12. An adult can learn a lot of music theory simply by reading a text book, children can't.

But children have a built-in ability to learn language skills that goes away as they become teenagers. Music instruction takes advantage of this.

I think with adults you learn what needs to be done and then the adult makes his fingers do it. With kids they learn to move the fingers and then eventually figure out what they are doing. Maybe not so black and white as this

I'm a beginner but I notice things that teachers work with kids on for weeks take just a few seconds with an adult, She's just say "you really need to memorize everything on these two pages" and that's the end of it

Nguyen and ChrisA

Chris, I think you make great points about the way adults learn vs. children. But I can't help wondering about the choices a publisher with a profit motive goes through when selecting pieces for something like Alfred AIO. As you both mention, there's the marketing aspect - adults in particular want to play something they recognize as a "song". Profit margins may be at work here too - effectively forcing the publisher to use public domain literature. This is a bit of a dilema, since by definition public domain equals "written a long long time ago". Its possible this narrowing of the possible selections is what is responsible for the pedagogical weaknesses we've been discussing. Anyway, thats what I've wondered about when I see something like Blow the Man Down or others included. Would any teacher NOT using a method book ever assign BTMD to any student?

You are absolutely correct, both thumbs go on "Middle D" (the D to the right of Middle C). For the most part, the Greatest Hits songs correspond very well with the associated section of the AiO book. Love Me Tender is the one exception that I've found so far; at the point where the book says you are ready for Love Me Tender, you have only been taught "C Position" and Love Me Tender requires a new position entirely. I don't know if the page number is wrong or if they just expect you to figure it out.

But the short story is that you are correct, based on the fingering numbers in the book your thumbs should both be on Middle D.

Am I the only one who *likes* BtMD?

Thanks for that mooshinator. Maybe since it's targeted at adults, we're expected to do a bit of thinking and figuring things out for ourselves, eh?

Glad that I seem to have got it right. Now, back to The Cuckoo ...

I liked "Blow the Man Down", at least I did once I could play it. LOL

I do like Blow the Man Down, very much. Thanks to a tip from GracieCat I picked up the octave jumps for the left hand from that tune. Speaking of developing a strong left hand! Doing the octave jumps and finding the right landing spot makes the left hand just fly over the keys. While the right hand plinks a melody and it just sits there in one position, almost immobilized by comparison.

That brings up a point about Alfred’s in general. The scores are made easy by intent. The simplified scores provided in Alfred’s can be embellished and made challenging at much higher skill levels. I don’t feel like I have mastered a tune based on passing my Alfred’s version. The Alfred’s version is introductory. It is a launch point. I am not talking about improvisation here. I mean that there are formal published versions of most these set pieces that are far more advanced for consideration.

While I have tinkered with alternate versions of tunes, I do try to stay diligently on course with my Alfred’s. I feel there is a musical progression happening that goes beyond what a single piece provides. I like the broad base and rapid pace of getting pages of Alfred’s under my fingers. Rapid being a relative term… I take weeks for some pages. Ha. What I find rewarding is to seriously focus on Alfred’s and ‘play’ with other stuff. Alfred’s is a good method in that is does provide exposure to some standard body of music with variety and connection to basic musical training. It is working well for me.

Blow the Man Down has one advantage towards me liking it. I absolutely adore ¾ time. What more does any tune need?

Moonshinator,

I only cited BTMD because it seems to be widely disliked , and its possible it is only in there because, well, at least some people have heard of it before. You can substitute other examples for the point I was trying to explore. I can't remember whether I disliked it or not at the time.

I guess what I was getting at is something like - if the buying public wants recognizable tunes, but publisher has to use public domain titles from the 1930's and 40's, how much of whats available is going to meet the "recognizeable" standard to todays average adult beginner (except for old geezers like me) and at the same time be a good learning piece?

Jim

Another "adult book". This is the one I'm working out of.

http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Keyboard-Repertoire-Intermediate-Selections/dp/0882848577

Notice there are also volumes 2 and 3 under "Frequently Bought Together". You can use Amazon's "look inside" and maybe determine if this book would be suitable for some one who just finished Alfred's Bk #1.

The advantage of this book is that it's not "made up" exercises but classical music is original form and key but selected for beginners and it covers all periods.

If this is to easy, then there is volume #2. Each book comes with or without a CD

There is zero instruction material in these book. The idea is that at this point you should be able to read a text book

There is a series of book out, by Hal Leonard, that use nothing but recent popular music. It's the "fast track" series. It skips a lot and teaches playing easy melodies with the right hand of song you now from the 60's to present mostly rock and pop. There are three books in each series. There is a series for piano, guitar, drum and bass.

Also the books are all matched so the beginning guitar player learns the same song as the piano, bass and drummer. So you can have a beginner's band.

You REALLY CAN be playing songs you know with other musicians in by the 3rd or 4th session.

In additon to the method books there are many song books with extra material, for each instrument and grade. Also for each there is a scales book. But at $15 per (rather thin) book it adds up. But it is all copyrighted pop/rock classics for example "You Really Got Me" by the Kinks, and "Wonderful Tonight" by Eric Clapton.

Oh, forgot, there is a matching vocalist series too. Some of the piano tunes are just backing tracks, rhythm only so they are teaching yo from the start to play in a band.

Very different from classical piano training.

This thread seems to have gone way off topic, can we keep it about Alfred one...

Thanks...

If you want some extra left hand work, just play the treble clef in the left hand and the bass clef in the right. (I just tried it on Got Those Blues and it's hard.) Maybe I'll go back and play some of the old songs with the left hand reading the treble clef. (No right hand at all.)

Someone above was mentioning putting their hands in C position or D position. Please realize that is just a jumping off point in the book. Real songs aren't written to be played with our hands in a certain position. I'm sure everyone realizes that, but I thought I'd better say it anyway.

Flowerpodess, you have to keep a steady beat when you play. When I was in band I always tapped my foot to keep time. Not very good now that I have to use that foot to hold the pedal down at times. Look back at page 13. A quarter note gets one beat, and a half note gets 2 beats. Do you have the CD that came with the book?

I pretty much have those blues pieces down on pages 107-109. I've put some extra work into the pieces my teacher picked out in Alreds Masterwork Classics book pages 7-9. I'd like to have them all finished so I can move on next week. I have no lesson this week.

Nguyen - Thank you for responding to me. I read from your previous posts that you think the basic series is better than the Adult so I'll just PM you on that since it doesn't relate to Alfred's at all.



That's what I meant I do not know about steady tempo. There are songs that should sound a certain way but simply looking at 4/4 doesn't explain much to me other than one what you said, 4 beats per bar. I don't know how to long to hold each beat, when musicians look at a music sheet they know how long to hold the note and everyone plays at the same pace is what I was asking about. However, I've received help to use a metronome and take one crochet beat as 1 second. But, yes the CD would help a lot. I wouldn't know what sounds musical, it'll only confuse me further trying to figure it out on my own.



Thank you for your answer. How about the PA book, does it require the pedal technique much sooner? Another question I have in general is, how far can I get with a 61 keys keyboard, would I eventually need an 88 key piano? How far as in terms of grades and playability of songs.

Mom3gram - Thank you for answering my question!


GracieCat - I'll have a look back. But, I already know about the number of beats each note like crotchets and minims get, I just don't get what a steady pace is, I'm hoping as I mentioned above that a metronome will help if I look at 1 beat as one second. I do not use Alfred's or Faber books.

I got books that are meant to be workbooks and books that are meant to have a teacher beside you. I got the wrong books two years back so I'm hoping to get the right ones this time, hence why I'm here. These books that I have are by Lisa Ng and since they heavily rely on teacher, they don't come with a CD. I have a weak left hand as it is, so I don't want to pick a method that will further reduce the use of my left hand.