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#2032753 - 02/13/13 10:32 PM Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic...
Gavbrown Offline
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Registered: 09/13/12
Posts: 22
And what are you looking for? I am a composer and am interested to know

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#2032778 - 02/13/13 11:27 PM Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: Gavbrown]
LoPresti Offline
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Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
I would hope that most music teachers go to a music store.
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#2032789 - 02/13/13 11:39 PM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: LoPresti]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
That were I go, to a music store, as a student.

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#2032796 - 02/13/13 11:54 PM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: Gavbrown]
dumdumdiddle Offline
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Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1263
Loc: California
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#2032840 - 02/14/13 02:40 AM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: LoPresti]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5422
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
I would hope that most music teachers go to a music store.

Well, if book publishers insist on charging $40 for six pieces of paper, stapled together, then music stores will simply go out of business like newspapers and print magazines.
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#2032841 - 02/14/13 02:43 AM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: AZNpiano]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5221
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
I would hope that most music teachers go to a music store.

Well, if book publishers insist on charging $40 for six pieces of paper, stapled together, then music stores will simply go out of business like newspapers and print magazines.
Well... not all of us do that! :P But there's the currency conversion and shipping fees to consider (at least in the case of Editions Musica Ferrum and for a little while longer, I hope)... wink
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#2032843 - 02/14/13 02:57 AM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: Gavbrown]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5422
Loc: Orange County, CA
To answer the OP.

sheetmusicplus

primamusic
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#2032853 - 02/14/13 04:14 AM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: AZNpiano]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
Well, if book publishers insist on charging $40 for six pieces of paper, stapled together, then music stores will simply go out of business like newspapers and print magazines.

Well, my books that I buy are about $10 for 70 pages unless you want a cd, which I don't and it is $20 and this is in Canada. In the states it is usually half price, but the wages are lower and there are 600 millions people as opposed to Canada with 50 million and the third largest country on the planet.

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#2032858 - 02/14/13 04:21 AM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: AZNpiano]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
For me the internet is fun, but it is not safe for business and I support my local people who work, raise a family and and pay taxes.

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#2032887 - 02/14/13 07:58 AM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: Gavbrown]
Minniemay Offline
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Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 1702
Loc: CA
I try to shop locally, but we have only one store and they rarely stock anything I'm interested in. I'd like to support them, but they don't make much of an effort to encourage my business.
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#2032889 - 02/14/13 08:02 AM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: Gavbrown]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11439
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I would also like to shop locally, but like Minniemay, the local store doesn't really stock everything I like. That's not the biggest issue, however. They aren't very well organized, and if I'm looking for something and have to ask for help the person who helps find the music is very slow and likes to talk a lot. The problem is, when she talks she stops what she is doing, so a 15 minute run to the store ends up being 45 minutes. Ain't no one got time fo dat!
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#2032900 - 02/14/13 08:51 AM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: Minniemay]
Ben Crosland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 418
Loc: Worcester, UK
Originally Posted By: Minniemay
I try to shop locally, but we have only one store and they rarely stock anything I'm interested in. I'd like to support them, but they don't make much of an effort to encourage my business.


This. My local shop suffered from terribly slow ordering, to the point where I just gave up sending my students there, and told them to shop on Amazon instead, because, well.. we could do with starting on this piece within a week or two, not next term some time!

Then they got taken over by someone who thought that signing it over to a very large music distributor would be a good idea. Now they feel like practically every other sheet music in the UK, with the exact same selection of the most popular music. They used to stock (and sell) my books, too - last time I went there, I had to crawl around on the floor to find them in some obscure corner, because they're not in MIPs list of titles to put in the main display.

Last time my colleague went in, the owners were moaning about how sales have dropped significantly - I wonder why.


Edited by Ben Crosland (02/14/13 09:03 AM)
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#2032907 - 02/14/13 09:14 AM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: Minniemay]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3156
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: Minniemay
I try to shop locally, but we have only one store and they rarely stock anything I'm interested in. I'd like to support them, but they don't make much of an effort to encourage my business.

Slow fulfillment of orders is the problem I have at my local store, too. I'd very much like to support them, but when it can take months for music that I have ordered to come in, I start having serious second thoughts.

The major problem seems to be with the distributor(s) the local store uses. I don't know why the distributors are so incredibly slow. It generally seems to be a problem when items are out of stock at the distributor. I can find the music I want in stock at sheetmusicplus or Amazon, and whisk, it comes to me almost immediately.

The distributors are implicitly in competition with the online retailers because if the music stores all go under, the distributor loses its customers. So I don't understand why they can't gear up and be as well-stocked for their client music stores as the internet retailers are.
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#2032919 - 02/14/13 09:53 AM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: AZNpiano]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
I would hope that most music teachers go to a music store.

Well, if book publishers insist on charging $40 for six pieces of paper, stapled together, then music stores will simply go out of business like newspapers and print magazines.

Yes -- AND -- if musicians from all corners of the art were not busy finding ways to by-pass copyright regulations, then the legitimate music publishers would not need exorbitant prices to make any profit.

Newspapers and magazines? You are a smart man. Have you actually done any reading on these "new alternatives" to printed (and edited) media? What are we becoming?!?
_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

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#2032932 - 02/14/13 10:18 AM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: Gavbrown]
Miss Karen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 69
Loc: Kent, WA (Covington)
I stopped years ago going to my local music store. I get a rebate check and better discounts when I shop online.
_________________________
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Redwood Piano Studio
http://redwoodpianostudio.atspace.com/

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#2032937 - 02/14/13 10:31 AM Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: Ben Crosland]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Ben Crosland
My local shop suffered from terribly slow ordering, to the point where I just gave up sending my students there, and told them to shop on Amazon instead, because, well.. we could do with starting on this piece within a week or two, not next term some time!

I know Minnie, and Morodiene, and Ben, and PianoStudent88,

It can be a sad state of "service", AND it is certainly part of a downward spiral, to which we are adding momentum. In the profession, one needs to use effective resources that work, and in a timely fashon. But here's what LoPresti worries about:

I can buy virtually everything cheaper at the WalStore SuperCenter than I can at Smith’s General Store, or at Wilson’s Pharmacy. WalStore is well-lighted, fully-stocked, and I can shop at 2:00 AM if I so choose. It has plenty of free parking and more than two cash registers!

Step 1: Smith’s looses profitability, and can no longer afford to pay the highly experienced staff that has assisted its customers for years.
Wilson’s looses profitability, and can no longer afford to pay the highly experienced individuals that have assisted its customers for years.
Step 2: Former employees from Smith’s move out of the area.
Step 3: Bill and Betty, former employees from Wilson’s, find work at WalStore.
Step 4: Service at both Smith’s and Wilson’s deteriorates. More customers abandon ship.
Step 5: Smith’s General Store, and Wilson’s Pharmacy no longer need to order as much product, and their distributors begin to neglect them.
Step 6: Smith’s General Store goes out of business.
Wilson’s Pharmacy closes its doors.

Time passes . . . . .

Step 7: Someone at WalStore Corporate Headquarters notices that SuperCenter Store # 7692 is no longer meeting “profitability metrics”, plus the high cost of delivering up there is well above corporate guidelines!
Step 8: Can anyone guess what comes next? Bill and Betty better dust off their resumes!
Step 9: The area no longer has a General Store, nor a Pharmacy, nor a SuperCenter. PROGRESS!
_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

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#2032950 - 02/14/13 10:49 AM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: Gavbrown]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11574
Loc: Canada
There's more than that going on, Ed. First you have the monstrous head of Profit-At-All-Costs, or PAAC for short, plus its brother Making A Buck = MAB. Maybe it's a sister, hard to tell. So a PAAC owns a strip mall and charges outrageous rent for the premises. Another PAAC hires the cheapest staff possible, people who don't know what they are doing. If they do have a senior, knowledgeable staff member, find a way to make him redundant because he's more expensive than some kid. MAB smells money and opens a store - real or virtual - with flashy and/or impressive looking things that draws the crowds. All of that stuff works together.

We have a store downtown that is in the right part of the neighbourhood. It's near a university and the National Arts Center, where we find the likes of Pinchas Zuckerman, orchestra members, students working toward these things. The neighbourhood itself is also unusual. You find the artists, the ex-hippies, the educated or self-educated people who love substance rather than flash. In that store the staff consists of what seems to be young musicians and music students near the graduate level. Teachers go there, and students go there. Regardless of what program you are studying under, RCM, Suzuki, other, the staff makes an instant bee-line to the material and can advise you on what teachers are preferring at this time, and why. I don't think this store could survive in any other location.

I don't have a car presently so I can't get to that store. But my work occasionally takes me to a mall where there is a music store that advertises popular things in its window, has lots of orange and yellow, and surprisingly it has some good material in it. The orange-yellow happy thing brings in regular customers who are not musicians, while the musicians know it has what they want. The staff there are musicians too, including with music degrees. But you have to explain things to them about editions, because their customers are looking for "easy" things, not for correct things.

Food for thought, Ed. There's a mall right next door. Three places are vacant and "for rent". It is a fact that the mall is charging a ridiculously high rent, so big chains like Shoppers and A&P aka Superfresh aka whatever Quebec chain bought it, can afford to stay there. They can even afford to take a loss on any store. Several excellent small stores with MANY customers, have had to close. This has nothing to do with customer loyalty.

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#2032958 - 02/14/13 10:55 AM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: LoPresti]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3162
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: LoPresti

Step 7: Someone at WalStore Corporate Headquarters notices that SuperCenter Store # 7692 is no longer meeting “profitability metrics”, plus the high cost of delivering up there is well above corporate guidelines!
Step 8: Can anyone guess what comes next? Bill and Betty better dust off their resumes!
Step 9: The area no longer has a General Store, nor a Pharmacy, nor a SuperCenter. PROGRESS!


This can happen. But there's another side to it as well, one which I had no appreciation for until my wife started working at W**mart.

Bill and Betty have resumes. Most of the W-store employees do not. The profitability of the large store allows it to employ huge numbers of relatively unskilled people who have little chance of finding a job elsewhere. These numbers are many times larger than what the General Store and Pharmacy could support. They aren't paid a lot - but they are not doing crime or on welfare either.

Progress? I dunno. I see it both ways.
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#2032962 - 02/14/13 11:04 AM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: Gavbrown]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11574
Loc: Canada
More on the subject.

The big businesses hire experts who tell them how to market, and what to market. The decision makers listening to the experts and following their studies are in an office away from the actual stores. The store owners hear what their customers have to say, but are unable to respond to it. Whatever sales happen are interpreted according to the theories and experts, and not according to customer action. This material comes across my desk in my work.

Here is a very concrete example - though it's not music you may get the drift. There is a gas chain that started piping in loud, frantic music at the gas pumps. I literally could not bear it, put in a minimum amount of gasoline, and went in to pay. I told the staff that this loud music had caused me to buy less gas than I would have, and that it was so unpleasant that I'd go to another station in the future if this continued. Staff told me that MANY customers had complained saying the same thing. But head office imposed this loud music, so they could not heed customer feedback.

Their reasoning: The music came from their own radio station and contained messages advertising their products (the explanation I got). So some "expert" cooked this up, probably through some studies. The fact that when you drive away customers from buying their primary product - gasoline - through this tactic, and a customer who goes elsewhere and won't buy any product, just isn't there for them. Meanwhile the actual staff dealing with customers has no input. What you and I do doesn't matter, because the experts deal with fictitious customers, and statistics that are collected and interpreted various ways. Or "demographics" that hypothesizes. Etc.

Addendum: TimR's observations seem to go with what I wrote in my first post.

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#2032965 - 02/14/13 11:08 AM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: Gavbrown]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11574
Loc: Canada
Back on the topic - I haven't seen "what do teachers look for" answered. I'd imagine that this goes into things like music matching the abilities of students at certain levels, that will also help them to learn. Does this require some teaching knowledge as well as composition skills to pull off? I imagine that music for the lower grades would be the most challenging of all.

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#2033034 - 02/14/13 12:45 PM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: keystring]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: keystring
There's more than that going on, Ed.

I agree, KeyString. Sad . . . and sadder . . .
Even we musicians have the blinders on, incredibly.
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In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

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#2033052 - 02/14/13 01:33 PM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: LoPresti]
Gavbrown Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/13/12
Posts: 22
Thanks to all who posted!

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#2033064 - 02/14/13 02:06 PM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: Gavbrown]
MaggieGirl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 471
Not a teacher, but when we can make the long drive, my daughter LOVES getting music here: http://www.mosfullertonmusic.com

It's a pack-rats dream. It's just too far to go and have that the only destination. The only downside is all their pianos are not allowed to be touched and I swear her hands get itchy with desire.

Adding - I ordered on Amazon this week - the music wasn't local and she needed it right away. I only ordered books 1 from the sets. For the next books I have more time and can order locally.


Edited by MaggieGirl (02/14/13 02:14 PM)

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#2033478 - 02/15/13 01:08 AM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: Gavbrown]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
We are fortunate in Amsterdam to have a WONDERFUL sheet music store next to the Concertgebouw: Broekmans & Van Poppel. They stock just about everything and order what they have run out of or don't stock very quickly. If you are in town for a concert, it should be a must-visit stop on your list. Make sure you tell them you are a teacher to get your discount. They also have a great antiquary department upstairs that changes often and often contains rare, out-of-print editions, as they tend to buy the entire collections of used music from the estates of dead professional and amateur pianists without interested heirs (of which there are, unfortunately, more and more every month it seems).

Great service, nice place to hang out browsing,...and realistically, perhaps they too will be out of business in another 25 years....who knows?...they also have a website but it is not their core competency, to put it politely: http://www.broekmans.com/en/default.cfm

Online alternatives:

www.musicstore.co.uk
www.amazon.co.uk
www.imslp.org for a great selection of public domain free scores

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#2035397 - 02/18/13 05:40 PM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: theJourney]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: theJourney
We are fortunate in Amsterdam to have a WONDERFUL sheet music store next to the Concertgebouw: Broekmans & Van Poppel.

You are also supremely fortunate to have that unimmaginably fine institution right next to the Broekmans & Van Poppel store!!

Ed
_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

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#2035421 - 02/18/13 06:23 PM Re: Where do Teachers go online to look for new sheetmusic... [Re: Gavbrown]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2424
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
In Amsterdam, you're just basically fortunate to be in Amsterdam.
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