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#2033890 - 02/15/13 06:23 PM i tried a kawai ca-95
Carlos-CR Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 64
Loc: Madrid, Spain
But i played some acoustics too and i think that if i'm going to buy something its going to be an acoustic.

Soundwise, every acoustic i tried is more enjoyable than the kawai ca-95. I played some k3, a k5, an out of tune k8, a 70's u3 and a new one.

The acoustic uprights actions are very different to what i'm used (cvp 305). To my hands they seem heavier and imprecise and I found almost impossible to play pianissimo and the dynamic range seems to be in the louder side.

The grands actions are more similar to the ca-95, which imho is the easiest to play to the point that i will suggest that the next hybrid should have a digital action and conventional strings smile


The worst part in the ca95 was the bass, too resonant and artificial. That was very unexpected and I think my cvp305 sounds better.

I've yet to try an avantgrand, but I don't have great hopes after having played the acoustics.

I'm a little overloaded and need time to process all the information.

Carlos

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#2033958 - 02/15/13 09:05 PM Re: i tried a kawai ca-95 [Re: Carlos-CR]
Miguel Rey Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 283
do you prefer upright or grand action? You can always play with the sounds either with adding sub woofers, positioning of the DP, room treatments (hardwood flooring instead of carpet) and VST's if your talking about onboard sounds. For me is how the DP performs and feels.

Heres a quote from Kawai

"Great sound means nothing without control"


Edited by Miguel Rey (02/15/13 09:08 PM)
_________________________
Bechstein B c1905


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#2034081 - 02/16/13 03:03 AM Re: i tried a kawai ca-95 [Re: Carlos-CR]
Carlos-CR Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 64
Loc: Madrid, Spain
No, I don't prefer the upright action. My preferences are digital, then grand and lastly uprights.

But I'm starting to see the action as a mean to an end so the above stated preferences doesn't have much sense in their own.

After a night's sleep my main conclusions are:

- ca-95 sound it's not as good as i thought it would be. I don't even see it as a worthy upgrade from my cvp-305 which have really good amplification and speakers. Action was much better, of course, and more similar to a grand than my cvp, but since playing the AC uprights and knowing i will probably never have a grand I don't value it as much as before.

- upright actions is the price you have to pay if you want the real sound. Take this comment with a grain of salt as I don't have much experience with acoustics and found them hard to control. Maybe people used to uprights have the opposite opinion. But what I see clearly now is that the sound is the important part of the equation and only having a great action without the sound doesn't have much sense.

- grands are easier to control and play than uprights , but they are very big and expensive (second hand quotes started at 12000 eur) and the difference in sound from uprights is smaller than from digitals to uprights. For me its just a hobby and I don't feel comfortable paying so much.

Carlos


Edited by Carlos-CR (02/16/13 03:04 AM)

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#2034088 - 02/16/13 03:19 AM Re: i tried a kawai ca-95 [Re: Miguel Rey]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Miguel Rey
Heres a quote from Kawai

"Great sound means nothing without control"


Here's a quote from me:

"Control means nothing if you can't translate it into sound."

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#2034098 - 02/16/13 04:00 AM Re: i tried a kawai ca-95 [Re: Miguel Rey]
slipperykeys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 358
Loc: Dorset, England
Originally Posted By: Miguel Rey

Heres a quote from Kawai

"Great sound means nothing without control"


Here's an earlier quote from Audi,

"Power is nothing without control."

I am waiting for a meat company to produce the slogan,

"Beef is nothing without horse".

From this, it is a great piano! Almost tempted myself...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP5Sas6l0rY

You can clearly see at 6:14, that the keys do not appear to be parallel, which is a surprise, Fantasie Impromptu is a great piece of music to demonstrate a keybord with.


Edited by slipperykeys (02/16/13 04:05 AM)

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#2034109 - 02/16/13 04:48 AM Re: i tried a kawai ca-95 [Re: Carlos-CR]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
I have yet to hear the CA-95 live but I see where you're coming from. I hear people used to playing AP's say all the time that the sound of an AP has more personality and that the sound of a DP is sort of too clean and "pure beyond belief". I really have to try to get a chance to hear the CA-95 before making the investment but the demos I've heard so far sounded rather good to me.
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2034129 - 02/16/13 06:58 AM Re: i tried a kawai ca-95 [Re: Carlos-CR]
enzo.sandrolini Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 270
Loc: Europe - France
Hello Carlos
I previously owned a CA93 and now I have a NU1 for one reason: the action.
You are right, the upright action is harder to control than a DP action, but when you start to get use of it, it gives far most pleasure than and DP action

Now for the sound, I aslo thing that there is nothing better than an acoustic, I can hear the difference when I take my lessons on a real upright piano.

by the way, I also trade in my DP for the NU1 in order to not feel lost when I go for my piano lessons, otherwise, the difference between a DP and the real upright would have been really disturbing (IMHO DP have "too much easy" action which are not "real"..)
If you can, go for a real upright, we will soon appreciate its action (when you will get used of it)
_________________________
Music is a lifestyle

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#2034135 - 02/16/13 07:27 AM Re: i tried a kawai ca-95 [Re: Carlos-CR]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3437
Loc: Northern England.
On the Late Sterters Forum they have a recital going on. I made a list of all the APs and DPs discerned by listening for a bit of a laugh. As ya do.

I got it very badly wrong. I had a Steinway down as a Digital (it was in tune, that`s why) and vice vresa for many Digitals. The Yamaha P140 sounded great.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2034148 - 02/16/13 08:06 AM Re: i tried a kawai ca-95 [Re: Carlos-CR]
oivavoi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 46
Loc: Norway
Carlos, if you are in the buyer's market I would really consider trying out the avantgrands before you make up your mind. Especially the N2, IMO, is a wonderful instrument, but then again very pricey (I've just made a decision to buy one and have started to save up. In other words: no new smart phones for me in a while!). The N1 and the N2 both have grand actions. The NU1 with the upright action is also a very nice instrument (personally, however, I miss that grand action too much to consider buying one).

But if you live in a house/apartment where noise/buggy neighbors etc is not an issue, and you can practice freely on an acoustic without disturbing people, then a good acoustic is the way to go. Sound-wise, even the avantgrands can't compete at the moment (though the action and general "feel" on the N2 is superior to most entry- to midlevel uprights, I would say). If price AND space is not an issue, then obviously go for a real grand...:) But to most of us, limitations concerning finances/space/neighbors/girlfriends/(fill out whatever you like)/etc makes a DP or a hybrid a good compromise. To me, a DP/hybrid also gives me the opportunity to play around with electronic music and record stuff to my computer more easily. But that is not an issue for people who just want to play and practice on the piano without any hassle.

Concerning the action, as enzo.sandrolini says, I think it's really a question about what you are used to. If you have learned to play mainly on a digital then I can understand that an upright action feels too hard in the beginning. And the action on many of the good DPs today will easily beat the action on a bad and worn upright. However, if you get used to playing on a good upright or a grand, then I'm a 100% sure you will discover that it gives you more musical possibilities and makes for more interaction with the instrument - it is just better.

Anyway, good luck!
_________________________
Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10

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#2034189 - 02/16/13 10:03 AM Re: i tried a kawai ca-95 [Re: Carlos-CR]
Miguel Rey Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 283
I think it's fair to say one can & should only compare DP to DP and AP to AP when talking about the sound. Ant that quote from kawai was in reference to their DP's only. There is no substitute for a good AP , upright or grand if you ask me if I had 15-20K USD I would go that route in the first place.
_________________________
Bechstein B c1905


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