Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano

Well, I hardly have....

However, when visiting these guys over there or talking with them on trade shows, one never gets the feeling of one playing the 'superiority card' over the other.

Don't forget, many of the owners had dads, grand-dads and grand-grand dads that knew and respected each other for a very long time.

Instead, they most typically tell which artist bought pianos from them before [including most recently ..] "where" most of their pianos are being sold right now [not USA] and which top craftsman trained by one factory recently "was stolen" by someone else and is now working for another guy....

P.S. soccer, skiing and sometimes 'hunting' are also favourite subjects...among others of course...

Norbert

Keep in mind that the title of that book is Grand Obsession. There's probably been quite abit of paper written in the re-fi market due to that book.

Any financial analyst will tell you that it's not too swift to take money out of an appreciating asset to put into a depreciating one. However, that is somewhat logical, and if you're obsessed, logic will do little good. Better a re-fi than a piano dealer's tasty credit plan.

The mortgage market is interesting in the US right now. People who bought at the wrong time are underwater even as they continue to make on-time payments. They can't even get a line of credit. People trying to become first-time buyers are facing a lot of obstacles as they pay for the corruption and corporate greed of others.

I was in Japan around 1990 when the bubble burst there. A lot of people who gave up on the possibility of buying a home set their sights on more accessible luxury goods. The car makers catered to that, going so far as to create new upscale models designed for a less conservative more risk-oriented younger generation. Golf clubs, sailing clubs, and yacht clubs all saw an increase in membership interest for the next couple of years even as the economy stayed moribund.I had friends living in a rent-control apartment who used their home-purchase savings fund on a Nissan Cima and a small sailboat. That was the equivalent of $60k US at the time. Grand pianos never participated in the spending spree because they're simply too damned big to be practical in the Japanese scale of interior living space.

Around 1995 the reality truly set in. Upscale department stores and luxury goods boutiques began to falter as 100 yen stores (similar to 99 cent stores here) and dedicated used car dealerships began to sprout up. Japanese air carriers, who had never offered mileage clubs, suddenly had one.The % rate of saved income began to climb once again as Japanese who lacked true wealth realized that the cloud over their economy wasn't going anywhere in a hurry. Things are no different there today. People's expectations are lower, their caution sharpened by experience.

Turandot,

Finally we stumble on a topic on PW that I know a little something about- Foreclosures(REO).

fingers

T-dot, your financial advice is noted. Besides working in finance for the past 35 years, I also have an intimate understanding of my own financial situation. I would never dream of burdening you with enough knowledge of that situation to allow you to render an opinion that was worth anything at all in my case.

Thanks all the same, though.

One thing that's become clear here is that you are johnny-on-the-spot to counter any comments that may impinge on your prolonged celebration of your piano purchase on this forum. Please understand that my observations are from a macro perspective and need not intersect with your personal finances in any way. Whatever you, or any individual does with his money in a peaceful way is completely up to you. I'm quite sure I posted that already.

Earlier you put up a link to your owned Steingraeber from a time before it was owned by you. You asked if it was good enough for me, but I had requested absolutely nothing from you. My response was that I had seen and listened to the link, and while I liked the piano a great deal, it was not one of the pianos which are the subject of this thread, It still isn't, and you aren't.

There's plenty of bandwidth here for your celebration to continue. There's also bandwidth for people of different opinions and experiences to share observations that are not dedicated to that celebration. Again, to be blunt, you are not the thread topic.

Neither are you, dot, neither are you.

For once you are correct, but it's disheartening that in a mere seven words you had to be redundant.


Why don't you explain what the thread topic is? I mean really -- take a stab at it.

My goodness, T-dot... You surely do get peeved when people try to divert your thread hijacking efforts...

We English find your brash American salesmanship so amusing!
Do people really fall for it? You appear so desperate!
Don't worry, you're bound to sell it one day.

We brash Americans have sold more chewing-gum and rocking chairs than you can imagine, and if we could teach the rest of the world to rock and chew at the same time we would open markets world wide.

i quite enjoyed perri's book, but must confess that i often wondered if her vision quest was ultimately realized by the repeated playing of a couple of mendelssohn's "songs without words". 'obsession' carries a pejorative connotation; something out of balance, koyaanisqatsi. i have extraordinarily accomplished friends who have mediocre pianos that are out of tune most of the time, but when they play, it matters little. i suppose one could say they are obsessed with the music. in any case, the middle path serves most of us well, most of the time. everything in moderation, including moderation, as it's been said.

that said, i'll be the first to admit that my instrument is above my 'play grade', and i'm happy to see steinways and faziolis in homes of modest abilities. it's a good thing dealers don't make us audition for our choices, and it's a sad thing that those who really deserve the finest instruments can't afford them.

You know, you're the second person to tell me that my comments here are getting in the way of the parade. I asked the first one to apply his noggin to fashioning some sort of an explanation of what the parade theme is. I'll ask you to do the same.

The way I see it, Keith provided the itch -- a guy gone mad from lusting over a high-ticket piano. You provided the scratch with your sage financial advice about what one can accomplish if "you're willing to "bargain creatively, drive an old car, and refinance your house". In between the two, you provided the climactic moment when you wrote:

"from the minute I touched this piano it was number one on my list, and there was no number two -- though I played lots of really nice pianos. It was like the "thunderbolt" moment in the novel, The Godfather."

More like from an old Harlequin Romance, if you substitute a guy for the piano. The mob wasn't much into pianos, although they did find some creative uses for piano wire.

No matter. I had no reaction of any kind to the thunderbolt. We're all wired differently in terms of what sets off an electric charge. For me it was the scratch, not the climax, that opened the door once again to alternate points of view on how to handle the itch. I can see how to you it just messed up the transition to the denouement, but it just stuck in my head that there was something phony and hollow about that scratch, just as there was something phony and hollow about your compliment to Gary on his alternate reality story of the humble Samick. Yeah, you quickly wrote that it was nice and you went out of your way to state how you appreciated it as much as anyone, but that just served as a promo for yet another rerun of your core message.

At this point I've had a change of heart, though hardly a thunderbolt. I've got to tell you with you and Smarty both on standby stumbling over my dog's name and nipping at her heels , I looked at her, she looked at me, and we both decided -- what the hey -- maybe it is your thread and we're just jealous of how you're sitting pretty on that fine piano of yours.

So to make a long story short, we're throwing in the towel. I was wrong. It is your thread. Clearly it is your thread. Getting in the way just ain't worth it, and it does mess up the plot line.

It reminds me in many ways of my Uncle Leo. He was christened Leo, but everyone in the family called him Uncle Same-ol behind his back. He was the epitome of the self-made man...absolutely relentless with his repetitious stories. His wife, Aunt Corine, had chronic headache problems which were rumored to be caused by severe constipation which in turn was rumored to be caused by life with Leo. Of course this diagnosis was never talked about publicly at family gatherings.

Uncle Leo's favorite story was how right out of college he went to work for Goodyear Tire and Rubber for only $3.10 an hour, and how from that humble start, through the sweat of his brow he made his fortune. What he never mentioned was that when he went to Goodyear, the minimum wage was $1.00 an hour. None of us really knew what Uncle Leo's fortune was. There were stories that it wasn't all he cracked it up to be, but nobody really knew.

Leo's pride, joy, and conspicuous badge of success was a Chrysler Imperial that he spent his retirement years washing and waxing repeatedly. Leo did everything repeatedly, but God knows, he really did love that car. It served as the crowning symbol of his life well spent. The only thing was, when you got a ride in it, he became even more insufferable than usual as he puffed up before your very ears, sitting at the helm of such a beautiful piece of machinery.

I never let on about it to my dad, who I always suspected was jealous of his brother, but I really loved Uncle Leo. It was clear that he hadn't had it easy. his siblings all had careers that his parents liked talking about. He was the guy who spent his life at the rubber plant. Corine liked church socials and potlucks. He liked the ticket window at the track and the bleacher seats at the ballgame. When he got cataracts and driving became risky, he let me pilot the aging Imperial to take him to his many doctor appointments. His health was failing fast and he knew it. He was deflating. When he passed on, I was there reading a book to him. That was another thing about Leo. He could listen. He loved a good story more than he loved his own bloated boasting.

So, am I peeved at you? Not at all, not in the least. I love a good story too.

This is exactly what "should happen" when making a purchase:
there are many testimonials here by people involving much less suspect makes than Steingraeber.

To me Keith's comments were enjoyable to read as he, as several others here, has across a GREAT NUMBER of top class pianos in his life.

Once these "seasoned travellors" have found something truly special to them, it might be just worth taking it pretty well at face value "accepting the ride"...

Why not simply "enjoy"?

Norbert

Dot,

You seemed to have learned much from your Uncle Leo.

Self puffery and verbage have become your hallmarks.

Those qualities are now the core of this thread.

Why don't you all quit squabbling and go practice!
Geez.

Best suggestion I've heard all day.

Me. Fearing the noise of thousands piano hobbyist players (like me..)

The website is pianoranking.

M

That ranking stie is interesting even though it doesn't reveal much about itself. Some of the comments lead me to believe it is an honest collective effort and not slapped together for a commercial purpose. You should post it as an opener in a new thread.

An interesting set of opinions, but without background and methodology, the lists aren't anything but lists.

Even if there were more backstory, I'm sure I would agree with Norbert's earlier point -- that the differences among pianos in this tier are mainly sorted according to personal preferences of players and listeners. I have my preferences, and others have theirs, but that should mean nothing to someone else choosing his or her piano.