Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

Trying Something New with Search
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
101 registered (accordeur, ando, AndrewJCW, Anne'sson, 30 invisible), 1209 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2034116 - 02/16/13 05:47 AM "+" sign in fingering
SMT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/10/12
Posts: 33
What does mean the "+" sing in the following fingering notation?


Top
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2034124 - 02/16/13 06:10 AM Re: "+" sign in fingering [Re: SMT]
dannylux Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 1844
Loc: Connecticut
It's an old English notation. It means thumb. So the next finger is 1, middle finger is 2, ring finger is 3, and little finger is 4.

So the fingering in our notation of the top staff would be 1-3, 2-4, 3-5, 1-3, 2-4, 1-3, 2-4, 1-3. This is standard fingering for scales in thirds.


Mel
_________________________
"Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get — only what you are expecting to give — which is everything. You give because you love and cannot help giving." Katharine Hepburn

Top
#2034130 - 02/16/13 07:02 AM Re: "+" sign in fingering [Re: SMT]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5446
Loc: Philadelphia
Nice call danny.. I never knew that myself, and was only able to figure it out by the 'standard' fingering. Took me a second, though.

I wonder.. do you know why they used to notate that way? Seems counter-intuitive to me, but they must have had a reason?
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

Top
#2034134 - 02/16/13 07:26 AM Re: "+" sign in fingering [Re: SMT]
casinitaly Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 6155
Loc: Italy
They say you learn something new everyday.
I find it especially true here at PW!
_________________________

XVIII-XLII
Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard. BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2034138 - 02/16/13 07:33 AM Re: "+" sign in fingering [Re: Derulux]
dannylux Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 1844
Loc: Connecticut
Originally Posted By: Derulux
Nice call danny.. I never knew that myself, and was only able to figure it out by the 'standard' fingering. Took me a second, though.

I wonder.. do you know why they used to notate that way? Seems counter-intuitive to me, but they must have had a reason?

I seem to remember that they didn't consider the thumb a finger. People had 4 fingers plus a thumb per hand; hence the fingers were numbered 1, 2, 3, 4.


Mel
_________________________
"Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get — only what you are expecting to give — which is everything. You give because you love and cannot help giving." Katharine Hepburn

Top
#2034140 - 02/16/13 07:42 AM Re: "+" sign in fingering [Re: Derulux]
Nikolas Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 6280
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Derulux
I wonder.. do you know why they used to notate that way? Seems counter-intuitive to me, but they must have had a reason?
If I may dare to pass some judgement...

The British insist on many things which are not in accordance to the rest of the world (metric system, driving on the left side, etc). Since I've lived in the UK, I've come to realize how awesome it is to drive on the left side, rather than the right, but for the rest I can't begin to follow what's going on...
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

Top
#2034145 - 02/16/13 07:54 AM Re: "+" sign in fingering [Re: Derulux]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 13125
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Derulux

I wonder.. do you know why they used to notate that way? Seems counter-intuitive to me, but they must have had a reason?

I wish it were done all the time. In any other instrument, finger 1 is the index finger, 2 is the middle finger etc. Then you go to piano and have to re-associate everything. The + for thumb would put piano fingering in line with everything else.

Top
#2034170 - 02/16/13 09:14 AM Re: "+" sign in fingering [Re: SMT]
fizikisto Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 1517
Loc: Hernando, MS
keystring,
I agree, though I think I'd hate to have to change now! smile
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800

Top
#2034174 - 02/16/13 09:34 AM Re: "+" sign in fingering [Re: SMT]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3607
Quote:
I seem to remember that they didn't consider the thumb a finger


That is because anatomically, the thumb is not a "finger", it is a "thumb".

At least that is what I learned in Anatomy class in college.

Google "Is the thumb a finger"... lots of info.
_________________________
Piano teacher and Blues and Boogie-Woogie pianist.

A Blues Jam in G: https://www.box.com/s/43da5e4ca6432d021eb8

Top
#2034334 - 02/16/13 04:22 PM Re: "+" sign in fingering [Re: SMT]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 13125
Loc: Canada
The thumb is also the apposing digit that we use to grasp. So for example on violin, the thumb goes on the other side, and you use the 4 fingers for playing. On recorder - another instrument I play - the thumb goes on the other side and it closes or semi-closes a hole to create the octave, while the other fingers create the actual notes. So in a lot of instruments, the thumb does not have a note-determining function. Keyboards are an exception.

Top
#2034384 - 02/16/13 05:43 PM Re: "+" sign in fingering [Re: SMT]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6432
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Yes, dannylux is right. I learned about the + sign a couple of years ago in the Pianist's Corner.
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


Top
#2034393 - 02/16/13 05:52 PM Re: "+" sign in fingering [Re: keystring]
ClsscLib Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 2250
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
I agree with Keystring too. My piano teacher spotted me for a string player right away because whenever the sheet music called for the thumb to be used, I had to fight a natural tendency (35 years of string training!) to use my index finger.


Edited by ClsscLib (02/16/13 05:53 PM)
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

Top
#2034480 - 02/16/13 08:45 PM Re: "+" sign in fingering [Re: ClsscLib]
bluebilly Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 494
Loc: England
From age seven to fourteen I had three different piano teachers, two taught English fingering the third taught Continental fingering......confusing!!??

Top
#2034508 - 02/16/13 10:09 PM Re: "+" sign in fingering [Re: SMT]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3607
I have had several piano students who play or played guitar, and for them the fingering issue always was an obstacle.

Also, at least one guitar player uses all five fingers for fretting...Here is the late great Jeff Healey, who taught himself starting at age 3 to play with the guitar flat in his lap, so he pressed down on the strings with all five fingers.

But the fingering schematic would not mean a thing to him . . . he went blind at the age of one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WAKNlwidEM
_________________________
Piano teacher and Blues and Boogie-Woogie pianist.

A Blues Jam in G: https://www.box.com/s/43da5e4ca6432d021eb8

Top

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
Why It's Impossible to Tune a Piano!
aka, why you should be nice to your tuner.
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad)
Hammond A100 for Sale!
PRICE DROPPED!
(Think B3)
Hammond A100 for sale!
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad 125)
Sweetwater $55,000 Giveaway
Sweetwater $55,000 Mic Locker Giveaway
(ads)
PD - WNG - MH
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tours
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Beethoven Pathetique
by Mad House
Today at 09:33 PM
What is the lifespan of a DP?
by Ottawa58
Today at 08:21 PM
Grand Piano in Los Angeles Yamaha C3?
by Schazti011
Today at 07:18 PM
Why music, when you can improv?
by Panolof
Today at 07:15 PM
Kawai CS-X1
by EssBrace
Today at 04:37 PM
Forum Stats
83,760 Registered Members
44 Forums
172,928 Topics
2,527,740 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2016 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission