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#2030017 - 02/09/13 06:46 PM Handel--Keyboard Suite No. 15, Allemande
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3841
Loc: Rockford, IL
I posted a drier version of this over in the Tuner/Tech forum, and I'm posting this wetter version here for a different audience who listens from a different perspective.

Full disclosure statement: Recording Art.

So, this is the Yamaha G1 in the choir room at church. I had tuned it about a week or so, ago, but there were more than a few things with my work that I wasn't happy with, so I went back yesterday to give it another go. I am using a Sanderson Accutuner (referred to more generally as an Electronic Tuning Device) with Bill Bremmer's "Equal Beating Victorian Temperament III" settings. I am a monkey with a wrench and not afraid to use it. Still, in learning to tune, I am not too proud to use training wheels. grin

Both the tuning and the playing are works in progress. The piano needs regulating, so my touch was on the heavy-handed side of things for a piece that ought to be played lightly. The piano also needs to be voiced. It's a leetle bright, even for a Yamaha. grin Upon review, though, I thought I heard enough decent-ish stuff in my rehearsal recording to be able to splice together the better takes in order to provide some relatively distraction-free, uninterrupted listening blush. Then, after editing, I continued in my delusion, pretending to be a sound engineer, and practiced other aspects of mastering and mixing in CuBase.

To record this, I put the little Tascam DP-004 digital recorder about four feet from the tail of the piano with the piano lid fully open. The choir room is a small space, and very dry, acoustically. The sustain pedal has developed an annoying squeak, which can be plainly and incongruously heard in the dressed up version. Considering all of that, I hope you can enjoy it! Comments are welcomed, as always.

Handel--Keyboard Suite No. 15, Allemande

--Andy



Edited by Cinnamonbear (02/09/13 07:28 PM)
Edit Reason: chgd boxnet link
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2033560 - 02/15/13 07:26 AM Re: Handel--Keyboard Suite No. 15, Allemande [Re: Cinnamonbear]
woodog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 375
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Very nice tuning. And, of course, very emotionally satisfying playing.

Thanks for sharing!

Forrest
_________________________
Graham Fitch's Piano Pedagogy Site
(A WORTHY RESOURCE!)

--------------------
current studies:
Debussy: Suite Bergamasque
Beethoven Op. 78
Bach WTC 1, C# Major (#3)

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#2033586 - 02/15/13 08:24 AM Re: Handel--Keyboard Suite No. 15, Allemande [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Derulux Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5281
Loc: Philadelphia
Seconded. After reading your comments, I thought, "Oh man, what am I getting into?" Don't sell yourself short. That was very enjoyable. smile

Sound editor and tuner, indeed! wink
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2034025 - 02/15/13 11:42 PM Re: Handel--Keyboard Suite No. 15, Allemande [Re: Cinnamonbear]
ChrisKeys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1273
Loc: Dallas, TX
Ah, another sensitive performance. Thanks, Andy!

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#2034030 - 02/15/13 11:54 PM Re: Handel--Keyboard Suite No. 15, Allemande [Re: ChrisKeys]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6201
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Wonderful playing !!

Nicest G1 I've ever heard !!
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#2034283 - 02/16/13 02:19 PM Re: Handel--Keyboard Suite No. 15, Allemande [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Damon Online   happy
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6064
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Then, after editing, I continued in my delusion, pretending to be a sound engineer, and practiced other aspects of mastering and mixing in CuBase.


Nice job Andy. Is all the processing done with CuBase, reverb and whatever else?
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#2034293 - 02/16/13 02:41 PM Re: Handel--Keyboard Suite No. 15, Allemande [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Thanks for sharing! And I've always been interested in your knowledge and experience in tuning pianos and various ways to tune, also. I've become more sensitive to tuning since coming to college, since in choir, we sing with Pythagorean tuning, which is different from how a piano is tuned.

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#2034630 - 02/17/13 08:16 AM Re: Handel--Keyboard Suite No. 15, Allemande [Re: carey]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3841
Loc: Rockford, IL
Thank you, friends, for the encouragements! I've been on a Handel kick over the last year, and I am about ready to record Keyboard Suite No. 13 (finally figured our the Sarabande!) I am also getting ready to record "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes," but that's another story. smile

Originally Posted By: carey
[...] Nicest G1 I've ever heard !!

It's the temperament!, (...with the right stretch). grin Seriously, there is a certain kind of energy from this EBVT III design. There are other wohl temperaments to try, too, but this one is a definite winner.

Originally Posted By: Damon
[...] Is all the processing done with CuBase, reverb and whatever else?

Yup, Damon. I used CuBase for all the splicing and processing on this one. After I got my original track edited, I copied it to do the two-track method--I put reverb and some stereo spread in one track, and kept the other track un-touched. Then, I adjusted the volume on each track until I liked the mix. Then, in the output mixer, I did some light EQ'ing where there were some things that were poking out in an irritating way, and also used some light compression to take off a few more rough edges and put it all under the spotlight. Sometimes I also use a program called DC8 (or Diamond Cut 8) which is a noise-reduction program. I didn't seem to need it for this one.

If you're interested, here's the un-adorned "plain" version:

https://www.box.com/s/dc01d35pg1m77aog81ez

In it, you can hear how small the room is, but you can also hear some other very nice things about the temperament and the tuning that are lost in the processed version. Recording Art (and piano tuning) is all about making the best set of compromises, I think. frown

Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
[...] I've always been interested in your knowledge and experience in tuning pianos and various ways to tune, also. I've become more sensitive to tuning since coming to college, [...]

Then, OSK, you should take a gander at some of the threads in the Tuner/Tech forum. That's how I discovered it. Serendipity! Do a search on "Historical Temperaments" or "Unequal Temperaments" and see what you find. Here is one of my faves:

"Some sweet videos: an older piano tuned to an Unequal Temperament"

...where you hear the guy chime in who is responsible for getting this done:



My other favorite thread is, of course, this one:

"My Piano in EBVT III"

(See why my wife says, "Oh, Jeeze! Don't encourage him!" blush But please, encourage me! grin (It doesn't take much... laugh ))

--Andy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2034669 - 02/17/13 09:56 AM Re: Handel--Keyboard Suite No. 15, Allemande [Re: Cinnamonbear]
woodog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 375
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
An interesting aside... the publisher (and tuner) Latribe of that YouTube video has quite a number of recordings of his unequal temperament on the very old piano at Hammerwood park. Search for them!

There is a recording of Debussy's Claire de Lune (D flat, a very remote key for unequal temperament) in particular that I like to play for folks, and then play Angela Hewitt's rendition of the same piece (also a stunning recording soundwise - and any other 'wise' you can think of, but on a modern Steinway D in equal temperament).

Without exception, all listeners prefer the unequal temperament when volume is adjusted to the same levels.

I do this comparison on a good stereo, btw, as computer speakers just don't cut it when reproducing piano.

sorry for the thread hi-jack Andy, but like you, I find unequal temperaments much much MUCH to my liking, and like you OSK... I have been involved in choral singing all my life, and the solo voice always goes for the pure thirds and fifths.. and when that is achieved.. MAGIC!!

Forrest
_________________________
Graham Fitch's Piano Pedagogy Site
(A WORTHY RESOURCE!)

--------------------
current studies:
Debussy: Suite Bergamasque
Beethoven Op. 78
Bach WTC 1, C# Major (#3)

Top
#2034712 - 02/17/13 11:32 AM Re: Handel--Keyboard Suite No. 15, Allemande [Re: woodog]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3841
Loc: Rockford, IL
I do not consider that a hi-jack, Forrest. On the contrary! It's an excellent contribution!!! Thanks for those links!!!

--Andy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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