|
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
75 members (bluebilly, accordeur, BillS728, aphexdisklavier, bobrunyan, anotherscott, AaronSF, apianostudent, 16 invisible),
2,119
guests, and
357
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177 |
There is no yuck factor for me about what straight people do in the privacy of their bedrooms. I'm at worst ambivalent about it. But I suppose I can understand why some people might find it odd to think about if they aren't that way inclined. The idea however of being unsettled merely by the sight of two people showing affection for each other (or rather certain specific types of people more than others) I can't understand at all. I agree that homophobia is probably a bit strong a word for that, but you're right, it's definitely irrational, and I hate when people try and defend it. Who cares? If someone is grossed out by it, let them be.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607 |
It must be nice to live in your own little world where nothing affects anything else.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 854
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 854 |
FSO, I have to disagree with your characterization of Steve Chandler's comment as homophobic. One may quibble with his choice of words, but I think he's simply expressing his own orientation, which is straight. I suspect that many gays might call what straight men and women do in the bedroom "creepy" as well. It's not a judgement of them as human beings, but of their sexual activities, and merely expresses the "yuck factor" that those on both ends of the spectrum feel when imagining the sexual life of the other. But that is a far cry from homophobia. There are too many true homophobes walking around, especially here in the states, to devalue the meaning of the word by applying it too broadly. I've encountered many in my lifetime, and they view gays as sick, perverted, depraved human beings who choose their orientation, choose their life style, and fully deserve any and every tribulation that may ever befall them. There are many areas in this country, where a gay man is risking life and limb to even think of having a drink in a "straight" bar, assuming that his orientation might possibly be revealed to other customers. This is true homophobia, and it can be a deadly serious business. We are all walking cauldrons of emotions and feelings, shaped by an assortment of biases and prejudices, whether we admit it or not. I will plead guilty myself to the same "affliction" you diagnosed Mr. Chandler with. I even find it unsettling (preferable to "creepy"? ) to see men showing affection in public. It's not their problem, it's my own. Yet there is no way I can simply wish away that reaction, any more than I can wish away my reaction to a Brahms symphony. But what I can do is recognize it as irrational, as a prejudice that's part of me, and rely on reason to guide my beliefs. I fully support gay rights, including gay marriage, because my head tells me it's the right thing to do, even if my gut may occasionally balk a little. See I...we...sorry, I *really* didn't make myself clear; I perhaps stated too lightly how *inadequate* the term homophobe is...that there is merely one word to encompass any degree of unsettlement is abominable and leads to just this kind of thing Um...it's strange though; quite a lot of straight men seem to like seeing homosexual *women* snogging away...which would suggest it's more about attraction than whether the...um...activities are similarly choreographed...but...then surely they would hate seeing heterosexuals out together as half of the couple should be creeping them out...I just think it's one of "those things". Um...perhaps I read too much into Steve's comment, in which case I apologise...see, I'm anti-prejudice but you're under the misapprehension that that's what you are...if you don't like broccoli but have tried it enough times you can't be prejudiced; it's only having had no experience (or too little) that pops you into that category. Now, um, if it makes your stomach balk a bit, that's fine, it just is. I can keep waffling but I'm sure you've got it by now...oh, and just so you know, the LGBT get the royal stuffing kicked out of them world over; I've been assaulted and, at the lower end, had the right Michael taken out of me for what many would call my "choices". Just saying, um, I do know what some *very* whatever-phobic people can get up to.
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607 |
Why do you write 'um' and '...' so much?
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177 |
It must be nice to live in your own little world where nothing affects anything else. If you think people getting grossed out by homosexual PDA is "irrational" then you're the one living in your own little world, buddy. I'm not prejudiced against gays. I believe in equal rights too, but when I see gay PDA I can't help but feel a little stirred. It's a natural reaction I have, and I'm not the only one.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 935
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 935 |
Creeping out! The funny thing is that probably the worst swear word is what women do for men and gay men to each other.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177 |
Creeping out! The funny thing is that probably the worst swear word is what women do for men and gay men to each other. ?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,392
9000 Post Club Member
|
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,392 |
Why do you write 'um' and '...' so much? Because his posts seem merely confused. During my years in the UK I escaped London for Brighton frequently, but never met anyone quite as flowery as FSO. I was there for one reason, no apologies for that, and no games or silly complications involved. Fortified with a decent breakfast, the Anglo-Catholic Sunday service at St. Bartholomew's was giddily High Church, the smoky incense rendering irrelevant the need for a shower.
Jason
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607 |
It must be nice to live in your own little world where nothing affects anything else. If you think people getting grossed out by homosexual PDA is "irrational" then you're the one living in your own little world, buddy. I'm not prejudiced against gays. I believe in equal rights too, but when I see gay PDA I can't help but feel a little stirred. It's a natural reaction I have, and I'm not the only one. Yes, well thats because it's widespread. That doesn't mean it's not irrational.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607 |
Creeping out! The funny thing is that probably the worst swear word is what women do for men and gay men to each other. What word is that?
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177 |
It must be nice to live in your own little world where nothing affects anything else. If you think people getting grossed out by homosexual PDA is "irrational" then you're the one living in your own little world, buddy. I'm not prejudiced against gays. I believe in equal rights too, but when I see gay PDA I can't help but feel a little stirred. It's a natural reaction I have, and I'm not the only one. Yes, well thats because it's widespread. That doesn't mean it's not irrational. You have no argument unless you prove why it's irrational. You can't say it's "irrational" just because you don't like it. That's the exact kind of logic homophobes use against gays.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 854
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 854 |
You have no argument unless you prove why it's irrational. Not sure that's true...but...how about, as everyone seems inclined to say, its nun off you're businiss? I mean, the only reason to fear something is if it's perceived to be a large threat and disgust comes from an inherent understanding of tiny threats (repulsive smells, for instance, indicate rotting which in turn indicates potentially harmful bacteria)...um...what threats do homosexuals pose? We also find disgust in a social sense; microscopic threats to the community produced by individuals. Um...so...is the threat that we notice a very slight diminishing of the gene pool? That's all I can imagine and even that's at a stretch...but anyway, your point is invalid; fear of spiders is widespread and irrational. There *are* poisonous spiders (well...none here )...so you reckon you have to *prove* the fear of spiders is irrational, otherwise there's no argument for it to be so? Hmm...not holding up somewhere I believe... Edit: Argerichfan; aww! That's unseemly sweet (to me at least)..I can hack being confused if I get to be flowery ^>^ Debussyist; because I'm, irrevocably and deep down, a pillock...is that a good enough answer?
Last edited by FSO; 02/09/13 09:21 PM.
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 854
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 854 |
So...where do we stand on the spiders thing?
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177 |
God I feel like such a #$*%ing idiot right now. I was associating "irrational" with "unnatural". My apologies, Debrucey.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,395
9000 Post Club Member
|
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,395 |
The "yuck factor" seems to me to be conditioning, rather than innate, i.e., genetic. What might be innate is a lack of interest, rather than an aversion. And, many times, what has been conditioned can also be de-conditioned if one really wants to - it can be "wished away", so to speak. But that takes work, and may not be worth the effort for many people.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,837
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,837 |
I don't think "yuck factor" is really the right word. It's not about "yuck," and it's not even about sexuality. It's about discomfort with things that are unfamiliar.
Three quick stories from personal experience:
I used to feel uncomfortable around homosexuals. I grew up in the bible belt, homosexuality was extremely underground in my hometown. But in college, the luck of the draw gave me a gay roommate and one night he and his friends invited me out to the movies. I must have had an awkward, terrified look on my face, because one of his friends quickly said "by the way, all of us are gay and I have AIDS, and we totally understand if you don't want to go." I made a quick joke: "Two conditions: you have to promise not to bleed on me and you have to introduce me to all the cute girls you know as your 'single straight friend'." I made four new, good friends that night, overcame my discomfort in a matter of months, and have never felt the least bit uncomfortable around homosexuals since.
Like many, I also used to feel a bit uncomfortable in hospitals and nursing homes. But as luck would have it, I spent my junior high and high school years getting my hair cut by a barber who just happened to have his barbershop in a hospital (my parents knew him so that's where they took me.) Also, to make extra money, I used to do variety/magic shows in nursing homes with a couple of friends. I also got a job in college doing food service at an assisted living facility. I got used to being in hospitals and around sick people and to this day, despite having had some bad experiences in hospitals, I don't think twice about walking in the door. (Which is also good since my wife works at a hospital!)
Interestingly enough, about 9 years ago, I was invited to play a fundraiser at the home of a board member for the orchestra I was in. They were in the process of raising $30 million for a new arts facility. For the first time in my life, I found myself in a room with fifty millionaires. And I felt really uncomfortable. Having grownup in a lower-middle class family, I didn't understand these people and the world they lived in. To me, they seemed arrogant, self-important, lazy, and unfeeling. Over the course of a couple years, I got to know some of them and discovered that none of them were any of those things. They were wonderful people who, aside from the money, were really no different than people like me.
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) www.pianoped.comwww.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 782
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 782 |
There is no yuck factor for me about what straight people do in the privacy of their bedrooms. I'm at worst ambivalent about it. But I suppose I can understand why some people might find it odd to think about if they aren't that way inclined. The idea however of being unsettled merely by the sight of two people showing affection for each other (or rather certain specific types of people more than others) I can't understand at all. I agree that homophobia is probably a bit strong a word for that, but you're right, it's definitely irrational, and I hate when people try and defend it. debrucey, I'm sorry for using the term "yuck factor". That was way too strong a way of describing discomfort. I was thinking more of "strange", "foreign", or "unsettling" (to use your word). After all, sexual orientation involves feelings of attraction toward a specific gender, so it would make sense that both straights and gays might find the habits of the other to be strange, or difficult to understand. But "yuck" is a bit over the top. As far as being "unsettled" by seeing open displays of affection, that is probably due to simple cultural conditioning, as wr already pointed out. I only brought it up to point out that all of us have inexplicable reactions to things that we cannot control. The key is to recognize these irrational feelings and reactions, and use our rational side to declare our independence from them. I'm sure that in another generation or two, no one will be unsettled by any of this, and discussions such as this will seem quaint.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,162
1000 Post Club Member
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,162 |
Millionaires! Yuck. How could you stand it. You know they carry that 1% virus.
Fazioli 228.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
|
Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
|
|
Forums43
Topics223,408
Posts3,349,457
Members111,637
|
Most Online15,252 Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|