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Please don't quote inappropriate posts - it only encourages the trolls and takes twice as long to delete.

This thread needs to be closed... moderators?

Actually, I had an unfair advantage. I had used the wrong pronoun on another thread, and then apologized. Her response was "Pfft, it happens", which endeared her to me forever.

There's only been one moderator report so far, and I don't see a compelling reason to close it just yet. It's a dangerous topic, and my guess is the thread will go sour soon enough, but there are a few interesting ideas here and there, so I'll wait it out a bit longer.

Why?

It will close of its own accord, like any other thread. So far, I think it's been interesting and 99% civil.

Amazing, those wimps who whine to a moderator at something perceived as offensive. Why not just stay off the thread? And during my commute home from work I seem to have missed some excitement!

And there have been some interesting ideas here...

Words of your own have had similar enough effect on me, Old Man <3 Um...I rather like this thread; a lot of liberally minded enough people posting comments innocuously enough whilst worrying that their own wording or the wording of others might incite some form of homophobic revolt. I mean, um, this thread's hardly about to get out of hand; even the Horowitz quote became deconstructed so as to ensure all that no offence is being taken or received, transmitted or otherwise left lying around... *and*, whilst the conservatively liberal may disagree, the thread began with a valid topic to which all the subsequent posts have pertained some degree of relevance; to close it at this juncture would be, in a way, to say that this is something that *shouldn't* be talked about...anyone who can't see the adverse long term effects of such needs binoculars...soo...um, thank you, Kreisler, for not blowing up the ship before it has a chance to sprig leaks and be abandoned.
Xxx

The moderator agreed that the post was offensive. He deleted it and called it inappropriate.

Not quite sure what that means... but considering your location, I should imagine you as quite socially liberal.

Well of course I never saw it... but still curious.

I find it fascinating how easily some people take offense -- just because somebody said the word "gay" doesn't automatically make them homophobic or anti-gay. So far as I can tell, nothing in the OP is derogatory, insulting, or degrading. I think rather than getting all up in arms about "it shouldn't matter", we should all realize that no, it doesn't matter...but that doesn't mean it's not still an interesting correlation to study.

My own theory is that while male pianists are not more likely to be gay, gay men are more likely to be pianists. A lot of it has to do with the emotional sensitivity that many "alpha" type straight guys repress, or simply don't possess in the first place, and the fact that being a good performer requires a certain amount of outward flamboyancy. There are flamboyant straight men, and there are introverted gay men, I'm not trying to make any blanket statements here, but the point is that it's a fair point. It doesn't really matter, but it's still an interesting topic for idle discussion -- so long as people can realize the difference between discussing sexuality and being homophobic.

Perfectly defining for me what I mean by "conservatively liberal"; Um...it's...well, homing in on notions, questions or even words that merely border non-"politically correct" in an attempt to enforce a free and loving environment rather than allowing one to grow naturally...
Edit: and yes...um...you could arguably call me socially liberal but don't let on; it's an awfully weak position to start off at

Not really.

Few thoughts:

1 -
Interesting - kinda like "gymnastics doesn't make people short, short people make good gymnasts." But I don't think that necessarily applies here. Do fat people make better opera singers? I don't know - the yummy Jonas Kaufmann does pretty well for himself.

2 -
This topic comes up from time to time, and I always find it humorous how some enter conniption territory over such an innocent curiosity. "IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!1111" So Argerich likes (or liked...) her coffee and cigarettes, some pianists like french vanilla ice cream, and you know what? I would be interested to know if it turns out many "great" pianists like peanut butter on their bagels as much as I do? Why does it matter? I'm curious - stop getting so angry about it.

3 -
I also find it interesting that so many have chimed in - though no one has identified as gay. I am gay - and a very out-of-practice pianist I'm curious is all - NO IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!111111

4-
As a gay man, I think there's credence to the suggested - it's simply easier to "be" gay in the arts. I'm out - but trust me that working in construction, it's not as comfortable to talk freely of my partner and love life. Things have improved, but it's still awkward for some. We'll get there...

-Daniel

You can't compare being fat to being gay (no offence). You can lose weight more easily than to change your own instincts.

FSO, you quoted the wrong post.

I don't plagiarise the future, it's not my style. GeorgeB...well, firstly you *can't* change instincts consciously, that's what makes them instincts, and secondly...um...don't you think fat people have an instinct for cake?

I'm confused. If I look at your list, then I would say that women would have an advantage over men for the majority of the items on your list based on some of the inherent observed biological and evolutionary psychological differences between the sexes (which are considered just as taboo or even more so to discuss in some circles). Yet, we all know that over the past couple hundred of years there have been many more male master pianists with long and spectacular careers than female ones... Something else is clearly going on here. And I think we all know exactly what, too.

We are all products of our social environment.

Gay men can hide the fact that they are homosexual (or at least depend on those who enforce an oppressive and creepy "Don't Ask, Don't Tell!" mask of silence)

However, outside of the odd Isaac Bashevis Singer short story, women can't hide the fact that they are women.

Knowing someone's sexual orientation is about as relevant as knowing how thoroughly they wipe after a bowel movement.

Both are important when looking for a mate I guess

For me this subject is interesting because I am a sociologist, not on personal level. But if I look at my personal experience: I have lots of friends and acquintances who are openly gay and a few who are still in the closet. They come from all areas of professional life. Only a couple are involved with arts. I also know some very good musicians and they are not gay. So I wonder how piano would be in any way special in this regard...

OH, and I now understand why I will never be a good piano player...it's my gender!