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#2035730 - 02/19/13 09:17 AM Simplified piano action!
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1959
Loc: Suffolk, England
Have a look at this animation to see how a piano action might have worked had Monsieur Erard not complicated things.
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2035759 - 02/19/13 10:25 AM Re: Simplified piano action! [Re: Withindale]
BenP Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 166
Loc: South Jersey
What's with the string flopping back and forth indefinitely after you hit it?
_________________________
Ben Patterson
Part-time Piano Tech
Rural South Jersey

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#2035788 - 02/19/13 11:00 AM Re: Simplified piano action! [Re: Withindale]
That Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/11
Posts: 413
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Cool. Do you think that would actually work? Looks to me like the jack would just get hung up on the hammer.
_________________________
Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com

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#2035790 - 02/19/13 11:04 AM Re: Simplified piano action! [Re: Withindale]
Silverwood Pianos Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4217
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
There are still a lot of single escapement actions in regular service. Seem to be parts missing in the model perhaps.

Stoßzungenmechanik
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#2035796 - 02/19/13 11:10 AM Re: Simplified piano action! [Re: Withindale]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2194
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
Isn't virtual reality SO much better than the real world with all that complicating stuff getting in the way of things!!!
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2035799 - 02/19/13 11:11 AM Re: Simplified piano action! [Re: Withindale]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
That animation is not really worth commenting on...
oops, I already did....
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Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
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#2035833 - 02/19/13 12:09 PM Re: Simplified piano action! [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Jorge Andrade Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 65
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos
There are still a lot of single escapement actions in regular service. Seem to be parts missing in the model perhaps.

Stoßzungenmechanik


It must be a nightmare trying to play pieces like 'La Campanella' or 'El Contrabandista' on a piano with a single escapement action.

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#2035838 - 02/19/13 12:20 PM Re: Simplified piano action! [Re: Withindale]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21673
Loc: Oakland
Liszt probably played them more often on single escapement pianos than on double escapement pianos.
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Semipro Tech

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#2035873 - 02/19/13 01:30 PM Re: Simplified piano action! [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1959
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos
There are still a lot of single escapement actions in regular service. Seem to be parts missing in the model perhaps.
Stoßzungenmechanik

Dan, what was the approximate date of this one and what were its virtues? Zeitter & Winkelmann made some good pianos, at least they did in the 1920s.
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2035878 - 02/19/13 01:38 PM Re: Simplified piano action! [Re: Jorge Andrade]
Silverwood Pianos Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4217
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Originally Posted By: Jorge Andrade

It must be a nightmare trying to play pieces like 'La Campanella' or 'El Contrabandista' on a piano with a single escapement action.


Well, remember that Liszt marked La Campanella as allegro not presto or “as fast as possible.”

The staccato movement would be in the fingering and I’ll bet those early players of jack mechanic actions were well practiced.

Early Liszt is from the period when he probably thought that the piano being a percussive or percussion instrument there was no point in making any attempt at legato. (El Contrabandista)

One might as well enjoy frolicking in most head-spinning skips and repeated notes. Just don’t destroy the instrument by the first intermission which was often the case with the heavy handed Liszt.

Oh my, that could be considered classical blasphemy…. Don’t let any members in the pianist’s corner know.

_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#2035885 - 02/19/13 01:47 PM Re: Simplified piano action! [Re: Withindale]
Silverwood Pianos Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4217
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Originally Posted By: Withindale

Dan, what was the approximate date of this one and what were its virtues? Zeitter & Winkelmann made some good pianos; at least they did in the 1920s.


Hi Ian,

The instrument is from 1904 if I recall correctly. I would have to look at the client files to be sure but I think it is around that mark. The instrument is short at 5 feet, but with the square tail it has unusually good tonal qualities. I thought the build quality was solid; personally I liked the instrument.

One thing that was unusual, I found the original bass string set with German loops instead of the tougher English loops. Usually it is the other way around; the treble wire has the German loops and the bass string set has the English loops( see the Blüthner thread running below)

Very light touch similar to the Blüthner Patent Action. The adjustable flanges up top allow changes in touch weight to a certain extent. Had a spot of trouble with the new hammer set and had to remove quite a bit of molding materials to get back to proper balance.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#2035964 - 02/19/13 04:18 PM Re: Simplified piano action! [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1959
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos
The instrument is from 1904 if I recall correctly. I would have to look at the client files to be sure but I think it is around that mark. The instrument is short at 5 feet, but with the square tail it has unusually good tonal qualities. I thought the build quality was solid; personally I liked the instrument.

Thanks, Dan.

The early years of the twentieth century must have been a great time for pianos, such a variety of instruments, composers and styles.
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2036012 - 02/19/13 05:34 PM Re: Simplified piano action! [Re: Withindale]
kpembrook Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1311
Loc: Michigan
If you don't get it, it's because it doesn't show the hidden magnetic repulsion unit.
laugh crazy
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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#2036516 - 02/20/13 04:14 PM Re: Simplified piano action! [Re: Withindale]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3555
Is this an existing action type?

It looks like you just left out crucial parts (jack, repetition lever, shank) and renamed the back check in jack. I would not expect that it would work this way since the back check is ment to stop the hammer as good as possible in its motion instead of pushing it up.
_________________________

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#2036551 - 02/20/13 05:19 PM Re: Simplified piano action! [Re: wouter79]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1959
Loc: Suffolk, England
You are right.

Perhaps it was an answer to one of those questions University Professors like to spring on unsuspecting students, "Given this key, hammer, damper and string show how a grand piano action might work".

If you didn't know about them already Erard's double escapemnet action and Lexow's interesting single escapement one that Dan Silverwood put up would be far from obvious.

Just a minor diversion during a lull on this forum.

_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2036606 - 02/20/13 07:44 PM Re: Simplified piano action! [Re: Withindale]
Silverwood Pianos Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4217
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Originally Posted By: Withindale
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos
The instrument is from 1904 if I recall correctly. I would have to look at the client files to be sure but I think it is around that mark. The instrument is short at 5 feet, but with the square tail it has unusually good tonal qualities. I thought the build quality was solid; personally I liked the instrument.

Thanks, Dan.
The early years of the twentieth century must have been a great time for pianos, such a variety of instruments, composers and styles.


Indeed, I have restored more instruments from the 1900-1930 era than any other time period. It was I believe the golden age of piano building.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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