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#2035831 - 02/19/13 12:08 PM Kawai KCP80 or Yamaha YDP161
Kayel7 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 4
Hi there smile

I'm new to this forum and I'd like to get advice from you. Now I'm thinking between KCP80 and YDP161. I have tested 161 and I really like it's key action and sound too. But KCP80 has more functions that I'm interesting; Many sounds, Accompaniment, Line Out..etc...But I have never played it.
I can get them in very similar price.

So please advice me KCP80 has similar key action as 161? How about piano and other sounds realistic? I can't test KCP80 currently. So I need your opinion between these two. Thanks!

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#2035845 - 02/19/13 12:36 PM Re: Kawai KCP80 or Yamaha YDP161 [Re: Kayel7]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1867
Loc: Pennsylvania
Purchase Advice 101:

Do not purchase anything without playing it. Bad idea.

Even if someone says ... "Yes, they are similar".

What does that mean ?

Similar by definition means they are NOT THE SAME. If they are not they same, you may not like it even though it is "similar".





Edited by dmd (02/19/13 12:38 PM)
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2035896 - 02/19/13 02:11 PM Re: Kawai KCP80 or Yamaha YDP161 [Re: Kayel7]
Kayel7 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 4
Thanks for the input Don. Yes, I should test first before buy but currently that model is not available in my town.
Actually I have tested many Yamaha models from shops, friends..etc But never touched Kawai.
For Yamaha, I have played their basic GHS keys and I prefer better GH keys.
but for Kawai, I'd like to know that the key action use in KCP80, Advanced hammer Action IV-F, is basic level or more advance one?

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#2035898 - 02/19/13 02:15 PM Re: Kawai KCP80 or Yamaha YDP161 [Re: Kayel7]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
In this forum we are often a little anal about actions. So by forum standards I would say the actions on the YDP161 and KCP80 are not similar at all. One follows the Yamaha way of doing things and the other, Kawai.

They are more or less of the same quality in the sense that each has about as many fans as the other. The KCP80 has the older plastic Kawai action, which today is found in the EP3. So in terms of action you are asking the same question as people who are debating between the Yamaha P155 and Kawai EP3. Far fewer people own the Kawai, but based on the reviews I've seen, I'm inclined to think it may have an edge in terms of action realism.

In terms of sound there is again a lot of subjectivity. The KCP80 appears to have the same tone generator as my MP8 (vintage 2007). It was high end but is older. The YDP161 doesn't exactly have Yamaha's highest end tone generator either, but in my personal optinion it sounds better than Kawai's Harmonic Imaging. The latter is very clean and pure, to the point of sterility. That's my personal feeling about it (as an owner). My MP8 comes with a very large array of other non-piano sounds, many of which are very good (my standards are not as high in those areas), and it looks like the KCP80 has a bunch as well.

Is the AHAIV-F action low end? Well, it's the lowest end action you can get in a Kawai, but Kawai doesn't really make any low-end actions. Certainly nothing like GHS. It's more similar to GH than GHS and it's the predecessor of the RH action in the MP6 and ES7, so I'd say it's most similar to that than anything else.

I'm more sympathetic than many others about buying sight-unseen (I have done it). It's always best to play the instrument or at least an extremely similar one before buying, but if you put a gun to my head today and had me pick from among those two pianos I'd go with the Kawai, despite the fact that I've never played it.


Edited by gvfarns (02/19/13 02:31 PM)

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#2036089 - 02/19/13 08:44 PM Re: Kawai KCP80 or Yamaha YDP161 [Re: Kayel7]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9163
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello Kayel7,

The KCP80 is not discussed a great deal here on PianoWorld, however I believe it offers quite a nice 'overall' package at an affordable price.

It's a little difficult to make direct comparisons with the YDP-161 as Yamaha and Kawai adopt different keyboard and sound technologies.

As you are aware, the KCP80 features the 'AHA IV-F' keyboard action, which has been used in a broad range of Kawai instruments. It is no longer the latest and greatest technology, but still offers a satisfying piano playing experience. The core piano sound utilises 88-key piano sampling, which is comparable with the ES6 and current CL26 models.

In addition, the KCP80 includes the full GM2 sound set (over 380 sounds), a large control panel with 2x24 character LCD display, backing accompaniments, and line-out jacks.

In summary, the KCP80 is a very attractive entry-level digital piano, with a good quality keyboard action, piano sounds, and a selection of useful extra features that are not typically found in instruments within this price range.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2036091 - 02/19/13 08:48 PM Re: Kawai KCP80 or Yamaha YDP161 [Re: gvfarns]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9163
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
The KCP80 appears to have the same tone generator as my MP8 (vintage 2007).


This is not correct. The KCP80 features 88-key piano sampling, so its piano sounds are more modern than the MP8. As noted above, a closer comparison would be with the ES6, CL26, or CN22, which also feature the same 'AHA IV-F' keyboard action.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2036183 - 02/20/13 12:57 AM Re: Kawai KCP80 or Yamaha YDP161 [Re: Kayel7]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
They really need to think of a different name for each level of tone generator, then. My MP8 has HI, which was followed by PHI, UPHI and now HI-XL. The KCP80 has HI, so you'd think it would be the same.

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#2036185 - 02/20/13 01:13 AM Re: Kawai KCP80 or Yamaha YDP161 [Re: Kayel7]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9163
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I take your point, however practically all Kawai DPs introduced since the ES6 have featured 88-key sampling. The only exceptions are the EP3 and KDP80 (same sound specs as ES4 and CN21 respectively).

Also, the brochure for the KDP80 clear states that the instrument features 88-key sampling.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2036293 - 02/20/13 09:02 AM Re: Kawai KCP80 or Yamaha YDP161 [Re: Kayel7]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
Until now I thought my MP8 had it too for some reason. I guess you learn something new every day.

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#2037424 - 02/22/13 09:55 AM Re: Kawai KCP80 or Yamaha YDP161 [Re: Kayel7]
Kayel7 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 4
Thanks a lot for your advice gvfarns and Kawai James! And sorry for late reply.
Today I test play again 161 at local shop and when I release the keys, the piano sound still heard although I didn't use sustain pedal at that time. So it is something related to key-off sample ?

How about KCP80? Do they have key-off sample? When I listen to soundcloud demo, it seem it has it (around at 50 sec).

https://soundcloud.com/kawai-australia/k...p80-audio-demos

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#2037624 - 02/22/13 05:12 PM Re: Kawai KCP80 or Yamaha YDP161 [Re: Kayel7]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9163
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Kayel7, I don't believe this is related to key-off sampling - as far as I am aware, all digital pianos continue to play the sound of notes after the keys are released...this is just a natural characteristic of pianos.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2038063 - 02/23/13 04:06 PM Re: Kawai KCP80 or Yamaha YDP161 [Re: Kayel7]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 382
Loc: Poland
Kayel7
Instead of KCP80 you should look because you can get the CN23 at the same price level in Europe still...

And we know it's far better than KCP, perhaps also than YDP

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#2043335 - 03/05/13 11:53 AM Re: Kawai KCP80 or Yamaha YDP161 [Re: Kayel7]
Kayel7 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 4
Kawai James & Kapelli, thanks for reply. I'm thinking about CN series too.
I found out higher range of Kawai has "Let off" and Yamaha has "Key off" action.
Tbh, I don't really know what are they.
So please explain me if you have time smile

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#2043585 - 03/05/13 08:55 PM Re: Kawai KCP80 or Yamaha YDP161 [Re: Kayel7]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9163
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Kayel7, 'let-off' describes the slight resistance that is felt approximately half-way through the key stroke when pressing an acoustic grand piano very gently. Kawai keyboard actions with 'let-off' replicate this feeling, however this is not a feature of the KDP80/KCP80.

I'm afraid I do not know what 'Key-off' refers to on the Yamaha, however I don't believe it's related to let-off. More likely, it refers to the effect that is heard when releasing the keys. However, I could not see this feature listed in the YDP-161 specifications. May I ask where you saw 'Key off' referenced?

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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