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#2030383 - 02/10/13 10:26 AM Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
Wow this series is great! I highly recommend it. For an adult beginner like myself I am learning a lot about the development of music. Howard is a presenter on Classic fm ( British classical radio station). His presentation is interesting and easy to understand. Who would have thought the humble triad would be so important to music development! He starts right at the beginning of human music with the Paleolithic cave dwellers. The current episode is about the age of Beethoven- I have yet to watch this one. I'm on the episode about the development of orchestras. If you can watch BBC iplayer do watch this series!
_________________________
"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."

"He who divines the secret of my music is delivered from the misery that haunts the world."


Ludwig Van Beethoven

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#2030493 - 02/10/13 01:11 PM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: EdwardianPiano]
chopin_r_us Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 959
Loc: UK
He's OK for an organist.

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#2030695 - 02/10/13 05:47 PM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: EdwardianPiano]
bluebilly Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 439
Loc: England
Did you notice he's using a Roland V Piano with all of the I.D. markings blacked out?

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#2030759 - 02/10/13 07:39 PM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: bluebilly]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
Originally Posted By: bluebilly
Did you notice he's using a Roland V Piano with all of the I.D. markings blacked out?


No as I'm not that familiar with digital pianos- but I did wonder which one it is- so thanks for that!

Just watched the third one- surprising no mention of Franz Liszt!
_________________________
"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."

"He who divines the secret of my music is delivered from the misery that haunts the world."


Ludwig Van Beethoven

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#2030883 - 02/11/13 01:00 AM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: EdwardianPiano]
bluebilly Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 439
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Originally Posted By: bluebilly
Did you notice he's using a Roland V Piano with all of the I.D. markings blacked out?


No as I'm not that familiar with digital pianos- but I did wonder which one it is- so thanks for that!

Just watched the third one- surprising no mention of Franz Liszt!

I haven't watched the latest episode yet, I have it recorded, I'm waiting until I can get a quiet period...quiet periods are in short supply in my house....Grand children!?. I liked his very understandable explanation of the evolution of music, from single line notes up to chords and even the circle of fifths, etc., I'd like to see him make a programme concentrating more on that.

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#2030960 - 02/11/13 07:06 AM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: bluebilly]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
Originally Posted By: bluebilly
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Originally Posted By: bluebilly
Did you notice he's using a Roland V Piano with all of the I.D. markings blacked out?


No as I'm not that familiar with digital pianos- but I did wonder which one it is- so thanks for that!

Just watched the third one- surprising no mention of Franz Liszt!

I haven't watched the latest episode yet, I have it recorded, I'm waiting until I can get a quiet period...quiet periods are in short supply in my house....Grand children!?. I liked his very understandable explanation of the evolution of music, from single line notes up to chords and even the circle of fifths, etc., I'd like to see him make a programme concentrating more on that.


I was jumping on the couch when he explained circle of fifths- I understood it and had not done so before! His explanations of music development are brilliant for an adult beginner. Yes, hope he makes more programmes!
_________________________
"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."

"He who divines the secret of my music is delivered from the misery that haunts the world."


Ludwig Van Beethoven

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#2031128 - 02/11/13 12:49 PM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: bluebilly]
ClsscLib Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1777
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: bluebilly
Did you notice he's using a Roland V Piano with all of the I.D. markings blacked out?


Bennevis is going to hyperventilate with joy.
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2031140 - 02/11/13 01:05 PM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: ClsscLib]
sandalholme Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 778
Loc: Dorset, UK
His comments on Schubert upset me. Only quoted from his Lieder output, seemed to equate Schubert with Adele, considered him to be tuneful, non-dramatic etc but nothing else. Has Howard Goodall ever heard the savage outbursts in Schuberts' piano sonatas? His later string quartets? Even Winterreise, if he insists on treating Schubert as just a writer of songs. Lumped him in with Mozart and Haydn too, which would lead the novice music lover to believe he preceded Beethoven ..........

IMHO Schubert did indeed write beautiful "tunes". He also composed some of the most tragic and savage music ever written.

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#2031713 - 02/12/13 08:42 AM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: EdwardianPiano]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2409
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: sandalholme
His comments on Schubert upset me. Only quoted from his Lieder output, seemed to equate Schubert with Adele, considered him to be tuneful, non-dramatic etc but nothing else.
I think you may have misunderstood his comparison.

His express whistle through the history of music mentions great pieces of music in passing and expects his audience to already know them, if only by reputation. This is a brief summary of the history, for someone who already knows it, or a brief preview for someone who's about to start on it.

Given the influence of his symphonies, sonatas, and smaller works, it is, indeed, Schubert's lieder that have had the greatest influence on what followed and the thing that many most commonly associate with his name.

The comparison with Adele was not intended to belittle the emotional impact of his music but to associate it with what many perceive as one of the most dramatic outpourings in recent history.

Are you familiar with this?

Anatomy of a Tear-Jerker
_________________________
Richard

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#2031894 - 02/12/13 02:42 PM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: EdwardianPiano]
KeemaNan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 236
Loc: UK
Haven't seen these yet but have them recorded. I enjoyed his series 'Big Bangs' on Channel 4 many years ago - the book of that series is a very good and interesting read. And, of course, I am a huge fan of his great masterpiece, the 'Blackadder' theme !

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#2031902 - 02/12/13 02:52 PM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: EdwardianPiano]
bluebilly Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 439
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Originally Posted By: bluebilly
Did you notice he's using a Roland V Piano with all of the I.D. markings blacked out?


No as I'm not that familiar with digital pianos- but I did wonder which one it is- so thanks for that!

Just watched the third one- surprising no mention of Franz Liszt!

According to the Radio Times Liszt is the main subject in the Saturday 6/02/13 programme.

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#2031971 - 02/12/13 04:27 PM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: bluebilly]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
Originally Posted By: bluebilly
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Originally Posted By: bluebilly
Did you notice he's using a Roland V Piano with all of the I.D. markings blacked out?


No as I'm not that familiar with digital pianos- but I did wonder which one it is- so thanks for that!

Just watched the third one- surprising no mention of Franz Liszt!

According to the Radio Times Liszt is the main subject in the Saturday 6/02/13 programme.


Good- would be a crime against music to omit Liszt!
_________________________
"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."

"He who divines the secret of my music is delivered from the misery that haunts the world."


Ludwig Van Beethoven

Top
#2032266 - 02/13/13 04:13 AM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: zrtf90]
sandalholme Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 778
Loc: Dorset, UK
Thanks Richard for the link to the piece on Adele etc. Interesting. Still find it difficult to keep Schubert and Adele in the same compartment in my mind ..........

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#2034892 - 02/17/13 06:13 PM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: EdwardianPiano]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
Yes just read that- interesting. Watched the next instalment tonight- had a lot of Liszt! Now, I'm wondering if the next one will include the great Rachmaninov.....
_________________________
"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."

"He who divines the secret of my music is delivered from the misery that haunts the world."


Ludwig Van Beethoven

Top
#2035004 - 02/17/13 09:42 PM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: zrtf90]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
...
The comparison with Adele was not intended to belittle the emotional impact of his music but to associate it with what many perceive as one of the most dramatic outpourings in recent history.

Are you familiar with this?

Anatomy of a Tear-Jerker




Interesting. I've never pinned it down like that. I have always said I like dynamic range. That is basically what they discovered. Dramatic use of dynamic range illicits a response. Simple... not a trick.

I'd like to see that show someday. Sounds interesting.
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

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#2035129 - 02/18/13 06:55 AM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: EdwardianPiano]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
It's on BBC iplayer online Ron- but I don't think you can get this in the USA- however there are loads on internet channels - I think I heard of a BBC America channel where they show BBC programmes. I hope you get to see this series- it is very interesting.
_________________________
"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."

"He who divines the secret of my music is delivered from the misery that haunts the world."


Ludwig Van Beethoven

Top
#2035137 - 02/18/13 07:37 AM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: sandalholme]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1197
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: sandalholme
His comments on Schubert upset me. Only quoted from his Lieder output, seemed to equate Schubert with Adele, considered him to be tuneful, non-dramatic etc but nothing else. Has Howard Goodall ever heard the savage outbursts in Schuberts' piano sonatas? His later string quartets? Even Winterreise, if he insists on treating Schubert as just a writer of songs. Lumped him in with Mozart and Haydn too, which would lead the novice music lover to believe he preceded Beethoven ..........


Why "upset"? You're either confirmed in your regard for Schubert, or you've learned something about song-writing technique. Hopefully both! There's no down-side to that.

Here's some more fun, from William Mann, the London critic who ruffled feathers a generation ago by asserting the Beatles were "the greatest song-writers since Schubert". He had rather more to go on, I think, than Goodall's citing of the currently popular chubby chanteuse. But, for the point he was making, the comparison was telling. Don't argue otherwise unless you've SEEN the broadcast!

http://www.beatlesbible.com/1963/12/27/the-times-what-songs-the-beatles-sang-by-william-mann/ http://www.beatlesbible.com/1963/12/27/the-times-what-songs-the-beatles-sang-by-william-mann/

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#2035154 - 02/18/13 08:37 AM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: EdwardianPiano]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
Interesting article. I'm not a huge pop fan but have to say The Beatles are perhaps the best pop band ever- they did have good harmonies! Prefer their pre 1967 stuff myself. The 1960s was pop music's golden era.

However if one wants to include Sigur Ros in the pop world ( they usually are but are quite in a undefinable class of their own really) then they win hands down as the best pop band ever.


Edited by EdwardianPiano (02/18/13 08:42 AM)
_________________________
"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."

"He who divines the secret of my music is delivered from the misery that haunts the world."


Ludwig Van Beethoven

Top
#2035171 - 02/18/13 09:26 AM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: Exalted Wombat]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: Exalted Wombat
...

Here's some more fun, from William Mann, the London critic who ruffled feathers a generation ago by asserting the Beatles were "the greatest song-writers since Schubert". He had rather more to go on, I think, than Goodall's citing of the currently popular chubby chanteuse. But, for the point he was making, the comparison was telling. Don't argue otherwise unless you've SEEN the broadcast!


Just an addition for talks sake. I remember when the Beatles came to the USA. Everyone knows that piece of film where they get out of the airliner. All those girls....they were paid. It's called bandwagon advertising.

I remember watching the Beatles take the US by "storm" with a song: I love you, yah yah yah. I'll never forget my father and I watching that for the first time. He was in fits laughing. Saying; 'I can't believe it! I love you yah yah yah?!'

Also...lets face it....those guys like Bach, Beethoven, Schubert, etc.... They had really tough audiences. If you want to really appreciate Beethoven. You should listen to a recording of Seji Ozawa conducting Beethoven. Brings it alive.

One recent music that should be compared to the greatest is: Les Miserables. Schonberg and Boublil wrote a gold mine of music. Absolutely fantastic.
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

Top
#2035422 - 02/18/13 06:24 PM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: EdwardianPiano]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
Beethoven was in a class of his own- not called The Master for nothing!

The composers of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries were the greatest musical geniuses of the like which has never since been surpassed.

The world will never see another Beethoven, Mozart or Chopin.


Edited by EdwardianPiano (02/18/13 06:25 PM)
_________________________
"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."

"He who divines the secret of my music is delivered from the misery that haunts the world."


Ludwig Van Beethoven

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#2035677 - 02/19/13 06:24 AM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: EdwardianPiano]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1197
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Beethoven was in a class of his own- not called The Master for nothing!

The composers of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries were the greatest musical geniuses of the like which has never since been surpassed.

The world will never see another Beethoven, Mozart or Chopin.


True - but only because you very sensibly added "of the like". They were the geniuses of THAT style. There are, have been and will be geniuses of other styles.

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#2035679 - 02/19/13 06:28 AM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: rnaple]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1197
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: rnaple
Just an addition for talks sake. I remember when the Beatles came to the USA. Everyone knows that piece of film where they get out of the airliner. All those girls....they were paid. It's called bandwagon advertising.

I remember watching the Beatles take the US by "storm" with a song: I love you, yah yah yah. I'll never forget my father and I watching that for the first time. He was in fits laughing. Saying; 'I can't believe it! I love you yah yah yah?!'

Also...lets face it....those guys like Bach, Beethoven, Schubert, etc.... They had really tough audiences. If you want to really appreciate Beethoven. You should listen to a recording of Seji Ozawa conducting Beethoven. Brings it alive.

One recent music that should be compared to the greatest is: Les Miserables. Schonberg and Boublil wrote a gold mine of music. Absolutely fantastic.


You nearly had me, until that last paragraph!

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#2035906 - 02/19/13 02:29 PM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: Exalted Wombat]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: Exalted Wombat
...
You nearly had me, until that last paragraph!


Gee... you really hurt me. Why would you say that? And you're in London! You can go to the west side, any day, and see this! With it's best company! Gee...
That play was killed by the critics. It's the people who have made it the success it is.
Seriously....how could you down this? Do you dislike the French?

I have seen nothing recently that comes anywhere near what the greats did in centuries past. Besides the music of this play. I enjoy this like I enjoy Beethoven's 9th symphony by Seji Ozawa.
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

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#2036039 - 02/19/13 06:16 PM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: EdwardianPiano]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
Quote:
I have seen nothing recently that comes anywhere near what the greats did in centuries past. Besides the music of this play. I enjoy this like I enjoy Beethoven's 9th symphony by Seji Ozawa.



I agree- nothing today matches the complexity and majesty of Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin, Mozart etc.
_________________________
"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."

"He who divines the secret of my music is delivered from the misery that haunts the world."


Ludwig Van Beethoven

Top
#2036387 - 02/20/13 12:12 PM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: EdwardianPiano]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
...
I agree- nothing today matches the complexity and majesty of Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin, Mozart etc.


I must sincerely ask: Have you actually seen this play?
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

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#2036414 - 02/20/13 12:51 PM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: rnaple]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
Originally Posted By: rnaple
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
...
I agree- nothing today matches the complexity and majesty of Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin, Mozart etc.


I must sincerely ask: Have you actually seen this play?


Do you refer to Les Miserables? I've heard bits on the radio like I Dreamed A Dream, but no Beethoven it isn't. I will stand by my statement that the composers of the c.18th and c.19th were of a brilliance never again matched.
_________________________
"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."

"He who divines the secret of my music is delivered from the misery that haunts the world."


Ludwig Van Beethoven

Top
#2036483 - 02/20/13 02:54 PM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: EdwardianPiano]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1197
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Originally Posted By: rnaple
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
...
I agree- nothing today matches the complexity and majesty of Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin, Mozart etc.


I must sincerely ask: Have you actually seen this play?


Do you refer to Les Miserables? I've heard bits on the radio like I Dreamed A Dream, but no Beethoven it isn't. I will stand by my statement that the composers of the c.18th and c.19th were of a brilliance never again matched.


I've seen the London performance. It's pop opera. Some good tunes. Woefully short on fun, takes itself far too seriously. Many people worship it, and the movie. They're entitled :-)

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#2036518 - 02/20/13 04:18 PM Re: Howard Goodall's Story of Music on BBC iplayer [Re: EdwardianPiano]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
I can't say I worship Les Miserables. I've only seen the play on film. To soon be remedied. What I have seen, I have to rate as excellent, outstanding, brilliant. We need more entertainment like this today. The movie... I'll be nice and say: Very Good. The movie was too focused on drama, and being miserable, to have a chance to grasp the focus of the story....the inspiration.

I can say I love the inspiration. Which is the book. Full of a greater hope than death. A hope that depends on love for it's existence. A love that is greater than selfish, self serving love.

Mr. EdwardianPiano.... You must see this play.

Oh poor Mr ExhaultedWombat...You obviously didn't get it.

The play does a wonderful job of expressing what I described above in song. They did a wonderful job of great lyrics, and melodies. One after another. The last words in the last song, before the 300 person chorus comes out.... "To Love Another Person is to See The Face Of God."


Edited by rnaple (02/20/13 04:19 PM)
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

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