Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
132 registered (AnimistFvR, accordeur, anamnesis, 36251, 42 invisible), 1580 Guests and 34 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Topic Options
#2035841 - 02/19/13 12:22 PM Accompanying
IPlayPiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/08/11
Posts: 103
It's festival season and I have accepted roughly 8 pieces between 2 families which I will accompany for (all musical theater pieces). The parents have been asking if I will record my accompaniment for their kids to practice at home with. Obviously this means less rehearsal time which is both good and bad (bad because I will make less money due to less rehearsing). This also means I have to fully prepare these pieces earlier than I normally would so that they can have a quality performance to practice to. What would you do?

Top
(ad) Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2035857 - 02/19/13 12:59 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: IPlayPiano]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2472
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: IPlayPiano
What would you do?


Hi IPlayPiano. I do not know how these things are commonly handled, but I have had the occasion to hire an accompanist for my daughter. I have never asked for a recording and I cannot imagine asking for a recording. However I always ask the teacher for the score of the piano accompaniment, which my daughter studies thoroughly and refers to copiously when practicing the piece at home. For the purpose of musical development I believe that this is preferable.

Top
#2035874 - 02/19/13 01:30 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: IPlayPiano]
ezpiano.org Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1027
Loc: Irvine, CA
I think it is rare to ask for a recording. How about you charge a high price for recording that equals to how many rehearsals you anticipate to miss?


Edited by ezpiano.org (02/19/13 01:34 PM)
_________________________
http://ezpiano.org
Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Watch the introduction video on YouTube
@ http://bit.ly/Ready123

Top
#2035908 - 02/19/13 02:34 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: IPlayPiano]
MaggieGirl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 492
I would not make a recording. My friend's kids see an acting coach and voice teacher along with a strictly voice teacher. The voice only teacher charges a lot and she plays while she teaches. The voice/acting coach has an accompanist and charges an extra fee for the accompanist on top of his fee. It would be cheaper for them to use a recording but that just isn't how it works.

Top
#2035918 - 02/19/13 03:00 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: IPlayPiano]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2919
Loc: UK.
Unless you know the families well I would be reluctant to make a recording. I sometimes do recordings for a friend of mine who is a voice teacher but it's usually sight readable and we record at their house as they have the equipment.

I would encourage them to listen to some recordings of the pieces perhaps. There's no harm in them even singing along if it's in the right key and is the same version.

But......

The job of an accompanist is to respond to the soloist. A recording can't do that. I would put it to them that way. Singing to a backing track has no flexibility and that's a big problem, especially with musical theatre songs. They need to practice with you in a live situation. Having said that I don't think you need to rehearse a great deal for these things. If they know their solo reasonably well then one good rehearsal will cover it. For exams and festivals that's what I usually offer. A fixed price which covers one rehearsal and the performance. If I turn up to rehearsal and they don't know the rhythms or notes etc. then extra rehearsals cost extra. They can even sometimes turn into coaching sessions!
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

Top
#2035922 - 02/19/13 03:10 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: ezpiano.org]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5555
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
How about you charge a high price for recording that equals to how many rehearsals you anticipate to miss?

Do this.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

Top
#2035927 - 02/19/13 03:20 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: IPlayPiano]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11805
Loc: Canada
I am actually familiar with the practice. My son was in an arts magnet school, and as part of the program he had two performance exams per year. His accompanist told him to bring a cassette. He had a piano that could record the piano part alone while they played, and it could also duplicated it at half speed but original pitch. I later asked my accompanist to do the same thing, but since she had an acoustic piano we just stuck a tape recorder by the piano. She played it through once during our rehearsal time. In both cases, no extra time was taken. In other words, the recording was produced during paid time.

Going by my experience, this does NOT take the place of a rehearsal, and it is not the same as a rehearsal. In a rehearsal you are working with the accompaniment, working out how you will play the piece together. If you are a student more at the beginner end, a good accompanist will also guide you in various ways. (The coaching that was mentioned).

Having a recording was invaluable for other things. Still being a student, I was able to follow the piano part with the score, see how piano and my instrument worked together, and what kinds of cues I might catch from the piano to help me. I got used to the interplay of two instruments. I found it helpful, but it did not replace rehearsals.

Top
#2035930 - 02/19/13 03:25 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: ezpiano.org]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11805
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
How about you charge a high price for recording that equals to how many rehearsals you anticipate to miss?

I did three accompanied performances. One of them included a recording as I described above. There was NO difference in the number of rehearsals for performances where there was a recording to work with, and those without a recording (because recordings do not replace rehearsals). My son did many more performances than I did, and his number of rehearsals per performance didn't change either.

You are charging for your service, which is probably a per hour fee. If it takes you 30 minutes to do a recording, then that should be your fee. Not "this replaces 3 rehearsals because the student can work on his own, so I should charge for the hypothetical 3 rehearsals."

Out of curiosity - when performing more difficult and unfamiliar music, you would need to practice and learn the piece. Is the time taken for that considered in coming up with your total fees?

Top
#2035939 - 02/19/13 03:47 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: IPlayPiano]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3240
Loc: Virginia, USA
Having a recording is valuable for the performer, even though it is a fixed tempo.

But that doesn't make it the accompanyist's job to provide. There are lots of alternate ways to get a recording, including buying a CD. (or doing your own in software. I make lots of recordings for singers with a notation program and midi. Some of these I possibly could play, but if I'm going to do four recordings, each with a different part louder than the rest, software is the way to go.)

If they need to learn to cope with an accompanyist and changes of tempo, there's a software way around that, too.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2035949 - 02/19/13 03:59 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: TimR]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11805
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: TimR

If they need to learn to cope with an accompanyist and changes of tempo, there's a software way around that, too.

In what I related, the accompanist had a DP with a place for a cassette. After they had worked out their interpretation, he rehearsed with my son while the system recorded his accompaniment only. This reflected their interpretation, which no software or commercial recording could have done. If this is a desired service and it is feasible, why not consider it?

Also, this had nothing to do with "coping" with an accompanist. The person receiving the service was quite at home with it.

Top
#2035959 - 02/19/13 04:06 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: keystring]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3240
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: keystring
[quote=TimR]


Also, this had nothing to do with "coping" with an accompanist. The person receiving the service was quite at home with it.


Yes, that was an unfortunate choice of words. I meant rehearsing the skill of live performance, with give and take on both sides.

A recording is the same every time, as is the metronome. A duet is never the same twice.

There are programs that can follow the performer, like Band in a Box, but I've never used one. I have used a conductor program like Tapper, which has lots of potential. You can vary tempo and dynamics and there is no upper limit on difficulty.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2035965 - 02/19/13 04:18 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: keystring]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2919
Loc: UK.
Originally Posted By: keystring


Out of curiosity - when performing more difficult and unfamiliar music, you would need to practice and learn the piece. Is the time taken for that considered in coming up with your total fees?


I don't. To be honest sometimes the preparation would cost so much there is no way anyone would pay. I absorb the cost (in time) partly because I enjoy learning new music and also because it's there if you ever need it in the future.
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

Top
#2035967 - 02/19/13 04:25 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: TimR]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11805
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: TimR

A recording is the same every time, as is the metronome. A duet is never the same twice.

I can only go by our experience, and how we used it. I did not "rehearse" with the recording, but I did use it. You are picturing somebody playing along with the recording like a substitute-accompanist. I agree that this would not be good.

Top
#2035969 - 02/19/13 04:28 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: IPlayPiano]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2919
Loc: UK.
I agree that recordings can be useful to listen to.

The problem I find is that students who perform with recordings don't lead. They follow the recording because they have to. Learning to lead and be independent is something you can only do with a real accompanist.
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

Top
#2035974 - 02/19/13 04:35 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: Chris H.]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11805
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Chris H.

The problem I find is that students who perform with recordings don't lead. They follow the recording because they have to. Learning to lead and be independent is something you can only do with a real accompanist.


That is a very important point. And if you are at an early stage, it is hard enough to get the confidence to lead in the first place.

Top
#2035975 - 02/19/13 04:35 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: keystring]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3240
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: keystring
Originally Posted By: TimR

A recording is the same every time, as is the metronome. A duet is never the same twice.

You are picturing somebody playing along with the recording like a substitute-accompanist.


I am picturing somebody using a recording to prepare for the accompanist, using it to be rock solid on every entrance and pitch, so that the rehearsal time is used for interpretation and getting used to working with each other as a team.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2036056 - 02/19/13 07:03 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: TimR]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11805
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: TimR

I am picturing somebody using a recording to prepare for the accompanist, using it to be rock solid on every entrance and pitch, so that the rehearsal time is used for interpretation and getting used to working with each other as a team.


I guess that I was too. It is possible that the manner of preparing might be different.

Top
#2036130 - 02/19/13 10:28 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: IPlayPiano]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12140
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Singing with a recorded accompaniment is terribly annoying, but it can be helpful. Definitely charge what you think is reasonable for your time to make the recording should you choose to do so. However, there are accompaniments already made that the parents can usually find online and pay for. Also, on youtube often the accompaniments to popular songs can be found there. No sense in doing the extra work in recording (there is a bit of a pain in the post-production part). What if you don't have great recording equipment? Are they going to expect high-quality recording that you can only get with expensive equipment?

I have had my students work with recorded accompaniments when I am unable to play for them (aka, Skype students). It's better than nothing, and they still have to rehearse with their accompanist for the festival they're singing at, but this will cut down on difficulties with singing with the accompaniment (it's amazing what the mind can add in for the harmonies when you've never heard the accompaniment before - sometimes you think it's a totally different song until you hear the piano part!). So I think the practice of it is good and better than nothing.


Edited by Morodiene (02/19/13 10:30 PM)
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

Top
#2036180 - 02/20/13 12:51 AM Re: Accompanying [Re: IPlayPiano]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13812
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I would record the accompaniments, but I live in a town where there are several of us who have a lot of vocal accompanying experience and it's pretty much expected that we're able to sight-read most of the MT literature. (I've played several auditions where singers would walk in, put a piece on the piano, and then you play.)

Especially at the high school level, a recording can be very useful. The student will have to follow the accompaniment - this means that when you rehearse, they'll know the accompaniment and will be less likely to get lost. (This is nice because it means you get to spend more time rehearsing the music instead of teaching them their part.)

A couple of things you might do:

1) Charge for the recording. If your regular rate for rehearsals is $30/hour, then charge them for the time you spend recording.

2) Make the recording during the first rehearsal. Tell them to bring a tape recorder (or, more likely, their cell phone) and have them set it by the piano during the rehearsal.

3) Set a flat fee for the project. Say you'll provide a package (recording, performance, and up to 2 rehearsals for $50 or whatever you think is fair.)
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

Top
#2036536 - 02/20/13 04:56 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: IPlayPiano]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5962
Loc: Down Under
I do make accompaniment recordings from time to time, and I've worked out a fee schedule for this. No, it's not ideal, but it is useful for the (usually) student performer. They still have to learn how to perform with a real live pianist, when to lead, when to follow etc. It's not so much that it cuts down on rehearsal time, but that, as Kreisler says, the rehearsal time can be spent on the music rather than teaching them their part. smile
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

Top
#2037465 - 02/22/13 11:47 AM Re: Accompanying [Re: currawong]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4814
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: currawong
I do make accompaniment recordings from time to time, and I've worked out a fee schedule for this. No, it's not ideal, but it is useful for the (usually) student performer. They still have to learn how to perform with a real live pianist, when to lead, when to follow etc. It's not so much that it cuts down on rehearsal time, but that, as Kreisler says, the rehearsal time can be spent on the music rather than teaching them their part. smile

Something I have not seen mentioned (and pardon me if it HAS been mentioned), but an expert accompanist can "take over" when guiding an inexperienced player. I used to "pull" students back or push them forward when an adjustment in tempo was necessary, and at times, by placing a piano at just the right angle, I actually gave signals where a "judge" could not see them.

A recording is most definitely better than nothing, but it puts extra demands on the soloist, who then has to follow it even if he/she has had input into the making of the recording.

This is for music that is traditional and that does not have a 100% steady beat. For commercial music it is different.
_________________________
Piano Teacher

Top
#2037478 - 02/22/13 12:02 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: Gary D.]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3240
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
This is for music that is traditional and that does not have a 100% steady beat. For commercial music it is different.


Yes. Commercial music has a consistent beat, but not pitch.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2037489 - 02/22/13 12:18 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: TimR]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5555
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: TimR
Yes. Commercial music has a consistent beat, but not pitch.

And you think all the classical singers sing the right pitch all the time??? crazy
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

Top
#2037506 - 02/22/13 12:56 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: AZNpiano]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3240
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: TimR
Yes. Commercial music has a consistent beat, but not pitch.

And you think all the classical singers sing the right pitch all the time??? crazy


well..............I do! Hee, hee. Or if I sing a wrong note, it's actually a mistake, not an almost right right note.

I suspect digital autotune lets some people sell CDs that otherwise would be unable to. And click track keeps the rhythm steady - but that part I enjoy.

I don't listen to Idol regularly, but my family does, and I hear it in the background. It's really very instructive to hear the difference between a decent amateur and a pro. A wandering key center is one of the symptoms that drives me nuts.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2037565 - 02/22/13 03:16 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: IPlayPiano]
MrsLois Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/12
Posts: 75
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
I provide a lot of accompaniment services during festival time, and I made a standard contract last year, which people have been great with so far.

I charge a flat rate, which includes accompaniment for two pieces, and two rehearsals. Any extra rehearsals requested by the family are charged the same as a private lesson with me. Any more than two pieces requires additional fees.

As for the CD, I charge $20, because not only do I have to learn the music to a higher standard a little earlier than expected, it is also my time in making sure the recordings are at a good standard.

It's up to you, but I find that if you have standards with this, parents are usually more than willing to pay the extra money if you give them the service.

Top
#2041902 - 03/02/13 03:16 PM Re: Accompanying [Re: IPlayPiano]
okietransplant Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Texas
IPlayPiano, I am interested in what you decided to do. I have been doing alot of accompanying the last 12 years or so. I always quote a price which includes the performance and two 30 minute rehearsals. Recently, I got a Roland HPi-7, and I can make awesome midi and audio recordings, and burn cds. I am thinking of changing my pricing next year, offering the additional service of making a recording for x amount. I agree with the others that nothing takes the place of live rehearsal. With some students, however, they really need a recording they can use to practice with at home. This was a very good question for the forum!

Top

Moderator:  Ken Knapp 
What's Hot!!

Trade Regrets:
Barry "Bear" Arnaut

(ad) Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad) Piano Music Sale - Dover Publications
Piano Music Sale
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Rachmaninov Sonatas - 1 vs 2?
by iObsessed
11/25/14 08:07 PM
Completely OT- mods please move if necessary
by PhilipInChina
11/25/14 07:40 PM
Steinway "cottage" piano hammers
by ssenseney
11/25/14 07:19 PM
Garritan CFX vs VI Ravenscroft?
by LFYM
11/25/14 06:52 PM
Other Yamaha DGx 640/650 owners here ?
by vbdx66
11/25/14 06:19 PM
Forum Stats
77047 Members
42 Forums
159354 Topics
2340805 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission