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E. Wombat, I love it when you stop in here!

FWIW I use abc notation often.

To each their own, eh?

Cathy

I like ABC notation. As for being a dead end, it has gotten me to the point of writing crowd pleasing music and now learning my third instrument. I have written moving original music, performed it live, transcribed it, printed it in traditional dots and lines format. If it doesn't work for you, fine. It works well for me.

I tend to think that for me, learning traditional sightreading is mostly a waste of my time and energy. Sure, I could do it, but in the same time that it will take me to reach the sightreading competency of the average second-year piano student, I can write dozens of new original pieces. Pieces, which I perform in public for live audiences. Audiences that enjoy my music. What is the "end" that you speak of? And how will spinning my wheels on something I have little aptitude for (traditional sightreading) get me there in a more efficient manner?

My goal:
My music is a spiritual expression of who I am.

How does ABC notation detract from that goal? I detest the wet blanket types on the forum. "They" have told me I was wasting my time any number of times and have been proven wrong with my steady progress and still they come at me. "They" tend to see it as "their way or the highway." They are wrong.

As for what it is, the wiki explains it well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abc_music_notation
The wiki explains how chords and other complexities are handled.

/edit to add:
Let me add that I have nothing against sightreading or sight readers. For 80% of beginners it is the most efficient way, the best way. Every beginner should be exposed to traditional sightreading, and see how much sense it makes to them. For the 10% or 20% of us that struggle mightily with traditional sightreading, there are other ways, and ABC notation is one of the more popular alternatives.

ABC is not a good road for those that aspire to learn classical pieces. This might be what the Wombat is writing about. If a person's goal is to play complex classical pieces, ABC is not going to get you there. However, for folk musicians, and those of us that mostly write their own original music, ABC is plenty enough notation. ABC even gives a relatively easy path to converting to traditional dots and lines sheet music for those that want to share their music in that format. Text format means there is no software required beyond a basic text editor.

Sand Tiger +1



Cathy

I'm guessing.
The letter names of the notes are written down?
How do chords and rhythms look?

Okay, I read the wikipedia, article, and it makes sense that it was to use ASCII. I've seen this for folk songs too.

I still don't understand how you would render multiple notes and rhythms.

If you love it and it works for you, by all means carry on.

It's making it hard for you to learn Canon in D, something you say you want to do.

Come out into the BIG garden! You've done a lot of the work already, it won't be like starting over.

Sometimes you've just got to trust people who have more experience. Here's an example. I work with a choir. I want them to have the music not just the words. "But I can't read music!" "Never mind! Just use it to see when you come in, whether the next note goes up or down... The words are still there, exactly the same size as on your words sheet!".

You wouldn't BELIEVE the reasons and excuses they came up with! Music was new, and it scared them stiff!

One term later, we're singing harmonies, staggered entries, a lot of them are, if not quite sight-reading, a fair way towards it. They LOVE picking me up - "It's a quarter note, you played an 8th!" "But I thought you couldn't read music?" :-)

I had a very good day today. I went to a comm college where my teacher teaches. It was her studio class where she let her students play on stage in front of others. I hadn't played on stage for over 20 years for sure. I forgot everything after a couple of chords but recovered (she said it was a good recovery). I basically added some arpeggio in the same key (A major) to get to the next measure that I know. I then decided to play as musical as possible. I thought what the heck I screwed it up already, so i m gonna play the way i would like it to sound. Everyone told me that I was really getting into it as I play more. I thought it went well and happy. The class was great, people played what they have at different point of completion. 4 players were there. 3 were older than me. An older guy played incredible Bach Partita. It was impressive in both technique and musicianship. A lady played Chopin f minor nocturn. It's a difficult piece. She was holding Chopin Ballade. I'm so excited that I can go there every week. What an honor! I told her I will play my Bach too next week. I have to really read the score ( can't keep my eyes off) when I'm playing. But the guy played Bach did it with the book:)

I had a very good day today. I went to a comm college where my teacher teaches. It was her studio class where she let her students play on stage in front of others. I hadn't played on stage for over 20 years for sure. I forgot everything after a couple of chords but recovered (she said it was a good recovery). I basically added some arpeggio in the same key (A major) to get to the next measure that I know. I then decided to play as musical as possible. I thought what the heck I screwed it up already, so i m gonna play the way i would like it to sound. Everyone told me that I was really getting into it as I play more. I thought it went well and happy. The class was great, people played what they have at different point of completion. 4 players were there. 3 were older than me. An older guy played incredible Bach Partita. It was impressive in both technique and musicianship. A lady played Chopin f minor nocturn. It's a difficult piece. She was holding Chopin Ballade. I'm so excited that I can go there every week. What an honor! I told her I will play my Bach too next week. I have to really read the score ( can't keep my eyes off) when I'm playing. But the guy played Bach did it with the book:)

Maybe I'm a wet blanket, I don't know. But it sounds like you've taken offense as you've listed your accomplishments to date without traditional music notation.

The feedback you are getting is not a question of elitism, nobody is looking down their nose at you -- I think you're pretty remarkable, and I'm not just saying that, I've thought so before these last few posts and have said as much (I think) in other threads. Your advice has made a big difference for me in setting my direction going forward, so I hold you in really high regard, FWIW. 'Nuff said on that.

It's just a question of practicality...


That was really my main point at the outset. If you want to communicate with the wider world, in both directions, learning ABC is a very small "garden". If it's important to you to share your talent in writing, and to be able have others share with you on the pieces that are beyond what you are able to handle efficiently by ear (and, not to belabor the point but for the record, I'm completely envious of your capabilities in this department), ABC will not facilitate that except on a very limited basis. This is not going to change either.

But if it's not that important to you, or you just don't want to deal with it, that's your choice of course. Investing the time in ABC though shows that you really do want to communicate in that way...

I think the "wet blankets" really just want to encourage you to give traditional notation more of a chance given your expressed frustrations.

If you have a smartphone and idle time when you are riding the bus, in the doctor's office waiting room, etc. you can mess around with practicing reading without it taking any time at all from your regular stuff.

Malkin: loved the duet! What great fun!

Torquendale - yes, saw you over in MOYD and welcome you over here! Welcome indeed to PW - it is a great place!

Bessel - how are you doing with the Blues book? I haven't even looked at it for ages! I got side tracked with getting to know my new teacher. I think I'll probably get back to it in February.

Ragdoll - I just looked up the Snowflake Rag- that's a fun piece, and pretty lively too! Good fun.

EdwardianPiano - I was pretty careful over Christmas too - not that my neighbours get upset, but I do realize how intrusive the sound of my piano must be downstairs. I played ONLY with headphones except for Saturday. I don't care for it, but otherwise I feel too inconsiderate. I'm glad everyone is back to work this week and I can have my fun in the middle of the day!
(ah the joys of an odd schedule!)

Bobby SMith - congrats on your leap forward - how exciting!

WelshMikey - I'm still not much at improvising - but would love to be able to do it. Good for you!

SwissMS, sounds like a great "back to school" lesson for you! And how great that your teacher is so supportive of the ABF recitals! woohoo. You a really playing some lovely pieces these days. I hope we get to hear some of your work soon.

SandTiger - your posts are always interesting. I love the week numbers - great benchmarks, and also something that makes me stop and think...Wow, has it been that long?
As for the discussion on the ABC format... well, whatever works for you. Personally I think it sounds restrictive, but as you say, it does depend on what your goals are. It would seem like extra work to me.
I aree with TallGuy - it isn't a spirit of "elitism" that prompts others to suggest you work on the more standard system --- it is simply an enthusiasm to want to encourage you to open the doors to possibilities.

FarmGirl - wow - that's quite an experience! I don't think I'd do well in that sort of environment - mind you, folks at my level don't really get together for that sort of activity!

My ATOW is that I have the first part of my new barocque piece coming along very smoothly and just about at tempo! It came together very very quickly. The second half is a little harder, but it is coming along.
My German Dances are good enough that I recorded them to be able to sit back and hear where my rough spots are-.... I'm pleased with the progress and really HOPE I can let them go after my lesson this week!!!
My new jazz piece "clicked" a few days ago and is starting to sound better. I also realized I'd been playing a wrong note in one spot and that I'd got the rhythm wrong at one point. While I was frustrated I'd been practicing incorrectly, I'm really pleased I realized it before my lesson and I can work at sorting it out before playing for my teacher.
I'm SO happy to be getting back to lessons, I haven't seen my teacher for a month now!

I had never heard of ABC notation before, but apparently I've used something like it already to scribble down melodies of my own. It seems like a quick way to -write- down music, but I would prefer -playing- from regular music notation. So much easier to recognize intervals, note lengths and multiple voices or other double notes.

And that's as near as I've EVER seen the ever-supportive casinitaly get to constructive criticism! :-)

I had missed this! Wonderful! Love this kind of tunes.

And belated Happy 2013 to everybody.

I missed it too! How fun! Makes want to do a christmas music again.

Cheryl, thank you for your comments. I did not enjoy sharing my music with others before but lately I'm enjoying it. It's more exciting in weirdly addictive way. I think something changed within me definitely. I forgot to mention that I decided to reinforce my technique this year. Hearing some of those folks playing, I noticed that there are noticeable variation in the sound they make. I wondered why. I think it's the level of control. That's why I wasn't hearing dynamics and articulation absent which music fail to communicate (won't sing the song). I like my teacher but I noticed it right away that it's more up to you as a student. At a college level (I'm not in college but she is a prof) the teachers won't hold your hands like a neighborhood piano teacher. She won't look at your scale, Hannon or whatever unless you request. She assumes that you are doing it on your own. I know what I need to do. So I assign scales & exercises to myself and ask her to look at it once in a month. I'm kinda glad I went to a neighborhood piano teacher first. She got me back to basic and helped me fix bad habits.

I have never heard of the "ABC" approach to music either, but if it helps someone make music, more power to them. That is the goal of all this hard work!

malkin - I loved your Teasing Rag duet!

FarmGirl, you opportunity to listen to others play and share your music sounds like a great opportunity! It sounds a little intimidating, but should be a great confidence builder.

CasinItaly - Glad to hear your Beethoven German Dances are wrapping up. It is hard to play something you are really not "in to ", but it is a great accomplishment to master them anyway! It sounds like your having fun with the baroque music though!

I had a great, back to basics lesson yesterday. We spent 45 minutes working on technique issues. My teacher had me doing things ultra slowly (scales at 40!) and watching position and relaxation on every single note. We worked on scales and octaves and it was quite eye opening. I thought I was playing my Bach slowly in practice, but after this lesson, I have learned a new meaning of slow. This little prelude is quite the finger puzzle. We drew a line on the back of my hand and wrists, so I could see when I was torquing too much. It helped me recognize that I am not playing from the shoulder enough and compensating with my hand position. So my achievement is redefining slow!

I don't want to turn this into a debate on the merits of ABC notation. There is a blog by a forum member TromboneAl about his journey:
http://pianosightreading.blogspot.com/2008/01/background.html

I believe that this is the kind of road I am facing. For those that don't believe in aptitude for sight reading, do you believe it exists for ear training? Of course it does, aptitude exists for both ear and sight reading. The blog details a four year long journey of getting to sight reading proficiency, spending an hour or more a day mostly on sight reading. This is for an accomplished musician, an intermediate level pianist. My road, would be similar. I know others beginners, especially those that have a higher level of aptitude, don't like to hear it.

Each of us has limited time and energy, and in my case physical limitations due to chronic long term use problems on how much time I can spend on piano. If one of you wants to spend the next four years of an hour a day, getting to sight reading proficiency, have at it. For the average person it is more likely two or three years of 15 minutes a day. However, I am talking about the low aptitude group which might be as many as 20% of piano beginners.

How do I know I am in that group? I have over 10 years on other instruments. Single melody line treble clef only scores are beyond me. Full classical piano scores? Come now. Sigh. I've done the apps, I've done other exercises. I am not good at it. My brain doesn't process dots and lines well and I am not the only one.

Most in my camp give up on piano, because they can't read the scores. They don't know there are other ways, because most piano teachers are in the high aptitude group and have no patience for those of us in the low group. They can tolerate the average person, but often call us in the lower group, stupid or lazy because we can not learn the material. I have heard some on the forum say the same thing, that those that can't sight read are stupid or lazy. Sigh.

As far as struggling with a new piece, any person in the low aptitude sight reading group is going to struggle with that. Complex classical pieces are for the most part going to be out of reach for the hobbyist in the low aptitude group.

If I had chosen to spend my entire 10 months on piano primarily focused on learning to sight read, let me tell the high aptitude sight readers the big surprise. I would still be struggling with a score for Canon in D! However, I wouldn't have written a single original piece of music and likely would still be struggling with simple pieces from one of the method books. There are often other beginner posts from those in similar situation. Most are too ashamed to write about it. Many give up because they don't know that there is any other way.

Please understand that the road proposed by the well meaning is one of shattered glass and bleeding feet for those of us in the low aptitude group. It is doable, but it often involves turning their piano lives over to it. For TromboneAl, a polished and experienced musician, it took an hour a day for four years just on sightreading (not learning piano playing) to reach a level of proficiency.

Like I said, ABC provides an easy way to convert to traditional dots and lines for those that want to share their music with others. Like I said, for the 10% to 20% that struggle mightily with sight reading it is a popular alternative. There are thousands upon thousands of arrangements in ABC notation. Like I said, every beginner should have a go at regular notation, because a person won't know if they are in the low aptitude group until they try it. A person might well in the top 20% aptitude group and extoll the virtues of dots and lines for all the world. Most are going to be in the average group and with two or three years of 15 minutes a day of work, will reach a modest level of sight reading proficiency.

Those in that high aptitude group tell us in the low group just keep at it, it will click. Sigh. The reality is that that click might involve four years of an hour a day of walking on cut glass in bare feet. Those that chose that road, bless them, but I am taking a different road. It is a conscious choice. I write about ABC notation, especially for those of us in the low aptitude group, because there are other ways to make music. Yes, you give things up, but those are mostly things that are not likely to be accessible to you anyway.

Sand Tiger, you're right - what it boils down to is what each of us decides is a priority, and how we choose to spend our time - what we think will most benefit us.

What is important is that you are having fun with your music and are passionate about it. And it is very very clear to all of us that both are true for you.

I guess it is human nature to say "oh, but THIS way is really great - don't you want to try it?"

It is also hard for people in general to understand "what's so hard about xzy" if they find it easy, or relatively easy. We often think , well, if "I" can do it, anyone can - but we don't always truly "get it" that for whatever reason - somethings just don't work for some people.

It is inevitable that later on someone will come back again and say "why dont' you...." but I doubt very much it will be anyone who has followed the last few posts.

As they say... "Different strokes for different folks" -
just keep making beautiful music and having fun!

Sand Tiger - + 1 several times.

I happen to be a fairly good sight reader, tho if I haven't done it in awhile I fall out of the habit. But I do understand that lots of folks aren't like me, and have different priorities, and, FWIW, even get enjoyment from different challenges. I'm not one who is into taking lessons, and what I enjoy is learning - the way I learn. Never mind what a good teacher might be able to teach - my temperament is such that I get a huge kick out of learning the way that I do, and if I had to take lessons, well, I wouldn't be playing piano. So I have the same problem with those who are always suggesting that having a teacher is the only way, or even the best way, to go, that Sand Tiger has with people who suggest that it is somehow deficient to not read music.

But the real thing for me is - this is the "Achievement of the Week Thread" - and that's what I like about it - celebrating achievements. It just seems strange that folks might use it for, essentially, criticism, even if they, supposedly, think its "constructive" or they're being "helpful". Much less the tone of voice they do it in :\ I'd rather just celebrate.

So thumbs up to all our achievements

And mine is - I soloed at a dance last Saturday on a strathspey by Muriel Johnstone that a year ago I couldn't have done at all, much less have learned it to tempo in 3 weeks. Yea! All of the time I've been putting in practicing seems to be paying off!

Cathy

Sand Tiger: I understand what it means to struggle with something you are not talented for, for me it is ear training. I will never be able to play by ear, but still I enjoy studying and playing. We have to go around our weakness, in a way or another.

My AOTW: first lesson this year. My teacher declared that my Bach invention (in F) was, after months, really OK, and I could choose the next; as I usually have a "I want to do this" list, I proposed number 15, in B minor.

To counterbalance my success with Bach, I made a real disaster with my Chopin prelude. On Sunday I played it well, my husband praised me a lot, and he's a really demanding listener; yesterday evening the prelude was still OK and this afternoon I couldn't play 2 bars in a row without making a mess, and the prelude is 12 only bar long! Every time I tried, it was even worse.
I put a lot of effort into it, and I really love it, so I feel a bit disheartened...

casinitaly: why don't we start a topic D(isaster)OTW?