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Topic Options
#2037079 - 02/21/13 05:02 PM Artur A. Reblitz Book
greatlifestyle Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 43
Loc: Mexico
Hello.
I would like owners of the book Piano Servicing, Tuning, and Rebuilding to tell me if it will teach me regulation and voicing for my piano from scratch. I consider myself an able DIYer so the question really lies in the technical side. DIY haters, I'm sorry, but I cannot afford for "an expert technician" to do this.


Thank you,
Samuel

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#2037086 - 02/21/13 05:11 PM Re: Artur A. Reblitz Book [Re: greatlifestyle]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2423
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
Reblitz's book certainly helps most beginning tech-so it should help you. If you are versed in the basics of newtonian physics-that will help also. And if you have good tool sense and a feel for the elasticities of the piano-you should be able to do some useful work.

First step is to define what you want to accomplish!
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2037090 - 02/21/13 05:15 PM Re: Artur A. Reblitz Book [Re: greatlifestyle]
Blues beater Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/13
Posts: 133
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Another DIYer here:

I felt the explanations of regulation were excellent and understandable. I own three uprights but do not own a grand so I speak to the upright section. I am happy with my own efforts at regulation after replacing all the hammers and hammer butts on one piano, all the hammers, the bass strings, keytops and major action work on another. I doubt that there is any substitute for LOTS of experience with LOTS of pianos when it comes to voicing.

Good luck!
_________________________
Don, playing the blues in Austin, Texas on a 48" family heirloom Steinway upright, 100 year old 54" Weber upright, and unknown make turn of the century 54" upright -- says "Whittier NY" on the plate

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#2037110 - 02/21/13 05:46 PM Re: Artur A. Reblitz Book [Re: Blues beater]
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 2090
Loc: Suffolk, England
As good as Reblitz is you would also do well to search the archives of this forum to learn how experts approach each aspect of piano servicing.
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2037140 - 02/21/13 06:18 PM Re: Artur A. Reblitz Book [Re: greatlifestyle]
miscrms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 187
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
I'd say the Reblitz book is a must have for any DIYer. I've just read it cover to cover in the past month, and really enjoyed it. It also has enough detail to be valuable as a reference that I look back to often. As with most text books it lays out the basic principles and common examples / practices. The challenge becomes absorbing that info, and adapting it to the unique challenges in any particular piano. I've found the combination of Reblitz combined with lots of reading of past threads here on PW provided a good background to be able to ask semi-intelligent questions on specific problems if needed. By being able to ask the question in a way that makes sense, I was more likely to get useful answers and be able to comprehend the resulting suggestions and apply them.

While its got a pretty thorough step by step section on regulation, I have read some comments that this section is more directly applicable to uprights than grands.

Best of Luck,

Rob
_________________________
1874 Steinway Upright "Franken" Stein

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#2037167 - 02/21/13 07:23 PM Re: Artur A. Reblitz Book [Re: greatlifestyle]
Mark Cerisano, RPT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 1495
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I use Reblitz in my course, but when I was starting out, I found it difficult to visualize how all the elements fit together. Search PW for my discussion of the "Regulation Triangle". I have developed this explanation to help students quickly grasp how the elements fit together and where the important parts of the regulation process are.

Here are the threads to save you time:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2030094/Searchpage/1/Main/141143/Words/%22regulation+triangle%22/Search/true/Re:%20Regulating%20the%20action%20on%20a.html#Post2030094

and

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2010309/Searchpage/1/Main/140035/Words/%22regulation+triangle%22/Search/true/Re:%20Need%20advice%20on%20regulation.html#Post2010309
_________________________
Mark Cerisano, RPT
www.howtotunepianos.com

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#2037174 - 02/21/13 07:33 PM Re: Artur A. Reblitz Book [Re: greatlifestyle]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
In addition to Reblitz, I would also suggest "Piano Manual" by John Bishop and Graham Barker. It is an excellent companion to Reblitz. One thing that is very usful are the very clear color photographs. It's a very good book for the beginning DIYer.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2037322 - 02/22/13 03:24 AM Re: Artur A. Reblitz Book [Re: greatlifestyle]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
It is a basic book with some aspects that are dated to me, or did correspond to what the author understood . He was more versed in pneumatics than in acoustical pianos if I understand well.
I have read it and own a translation but at some point there are concepts that miss, while being widely used today, but it is enough to hhelp a beginner.

It also address more the American piano from some era than European ones.

The updates where welcome.

The redaction is very well done and it is easy to read


Edited by Olek (02/22/13 03:26 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2037330 - 02/22/13 03:47 AM Re: Artur A. Reblitz Book [Re: greatlifestyle]
beethoven986 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3372
Originally Posted By: greatlifestyle
Hello.
I would like owners of the book Piano Servicing, Tuning, and Rebuilding to tell me if it will teach me regulation and voicing for my piano from scratch. I consider myself an able DIYer so the question really lies in the technical side. DIY haters, I'm sorry, but I cannot afford for "an expert technician" to do this.


Thank you,
Samuel


Reblitz is a standard source of information, and a good one, if a bit outdated. Though, if you can't afford "an expert technician", I question how you can afford the tools necessary to regulate, voice, and tune your piano.... I've spent a few thousand already and still don't have everything I need. Just sayin'.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2037333 - 02/22/13 04:01 AM Re: Artur A. Reblitz Book [Re: greatlifestyle]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
It is not a mean to "teach piano tuning and servicing" more some sort of reference . Most tasks at the piano are x 88 or x250 so it is important to understand the final intention of any action before acting.

I once repaired a car engine, and broke the upper axis in it (cams) because nowhere in the documentation it was stated that the wheel had to be turned backwards to put that part in place.

Similar things, with less damage, hopefully, can happen in a piano.
All writings and even videos are not enough to get it all before you have done a few times the real thing under supervision, with man to man communication (I don't know why exactly, in the end, but the process of learning manual tasks seem to be of that sort)


Edited by Olek (02/22/13 04:05 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2037335 - 02/22/13 04:13 AM Re: Artur A. Reblitz Book [Re: greatlifestyle]
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 2090
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: greatlifestyle
... tell me if it will teach me regulation and voicing for my piano from scratch.

In summary, adjustments - probably, repairs - possibly, voicing - ???

For an illustrated overview of regulation Google for the Kawai vertical and grand regulation manuals.


Edited by Withindale (02/22/13 05:57 AM)
Edit Reason: Kawai manuals
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2037360 - 02/22/13 07:26 AM Re: Artur A. Reblitz Book [Re: beethoven986]
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 2069
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
Though, if you can't afford "an expert technician", I question how you can afford the tools necessary to regulate, voice, and tune your piano.... I've spent a few thousand already and still don't have everything I need. Just sayin'.


I'm not sure about your needs, but for the OP to obtain basic tools for tuning,
regulating and voicing his own piano, he certainly doesn't need to spend "thousands".
Just sayin'.
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.
LinkedIn profile
1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

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#2037364 - 02/22/13 07:34 AM Re: Artur A. Reblitz Book [Re: beethoven986]
Blues beater Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/13
Posts: 133
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
Originally Posted By: greatlifestyle
Hello.
I would like owners of the book Piano Servicing, Tuning, and Rebuilding to tell me if it will teach me regulation and voicing for my piano from scratch. I consider myself an able DIYer so the question really lies in the technical side. DIY haters, I'm sorry, but I cannot afford for "an expert technician" to do this.


Thank you,
Samuel


Reblitz is a standard source of information, and a good one, if a bit outdated. Though, if you can't afford "an expert technician", I question how you can afford the tools necessary to regulate, voice, and tune your piano.... I've spent a few thousand already and still don't have everything I need. Just sayin'.


I was able to regulate two pianos that I performed major services on without spending that much on tools at all.
Yes, the tools I used were not the most convenient, but they worked. For example, 90* pick that I already had as opposed to a specific capstan tool. I did not attempt to voice either piano, not so much for lack of tools, but I felt that would require substantial experience. When I replaced all the bass strings on one of my pianos I got them in the ballpark and kept them there with an app on my smartphone. I had a professional tuner come do the whole piano after the bass had stabilized. Saved me paying for multiple visits from him. Success will depend on the DIYer's mechanical aptitude and ability to improvise.

I own a car repair shop. The factory repair manuals constantly refer to very expensive special tools that we either do without or fabricate which is common practice in the business.
_________________________
Don, playing the blues in Austin, Texas on a 48" family heirloom Steinway upright, 100 year old 54" Weber upright, and unknown make turn of the century 54" upright -- says "Whittier NY" on the plate

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#2037373 - 02/22/13 07:59 AM Re: Artur A. Reblitz Book [Re: greatlifestyle]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Certainly some basic tools can send you somewhere yet...

May allow to lower the expense with the final tech, as you did.

The problem is to refrain a little, as many DIY ers are proud of their result to the point they fear a pro have a look at them. At some point and with the correct pro it could be a win win situation.

Experience is needed for regulation as well but as it is done in a few passes the job done can help.
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2037513 - 02/22/13 01:12 PM Re: Artur A. Reblitz Book [Re: greatlifestyle]
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 2090
Loc: Suffolk, England
One thing I didn't mention is that many of we amateurs do not have the experience to know how an older piano could or should play and sound. Reblitz won't teach you that.

BDB made the point very well in another thread today:
Originally Posted By: BDB
When I judge pianos, I have to judge them by how they would play and sound with consistent regulation and voicing, something that takes years and years to begin to do.
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2037617 - 02/22/13 05:01 PM Re: Artur A. Reblitz Book [Re: greatlifestyle]
fishbulb Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/13
Posts: 50
Reblitz' book has been a good read so far - I am about halfway through.

My next reads will probably be some of the materials that the PTG sells at their store on www.ptg.org (you don't have to be a member to buy the books, although the prices are higher for some of them if you're not a member.)

For example, go to the "Exam Resources" section of the PTG store. I am planning on buying the PACE lessons series on repair and regulation (lessons 1-7) and the upright repair lessons (lessons 8-19). If you are working on a grand, you'll want lessons 20-35 instead of 8-19. There is also a PACE series on tuning.

In the "Books" section of the store, there are also a lot of useful titles, such as "The Piano Action Handbook", "A Guide To Restringing", "Piano Technicians Guide to Field Repairs", and a few others, depending on what type of repair you're interested in.

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#2037626 - 02/22/13 05:13 PM Re: Artur A. Reblitz Book [Re: fishbulb]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: fishbulb
Reblitz' book has been a good read so far - I am about halfway through.

My next reads will probably be some of the materials that the PTG sells at their store on www.ptg.org (you don't have to be a member to buy the books, although the prices are higher for some of them if you're not a member.)

For example, go to the "Exam Resources" section of the PTG store. I am planning on buying the PACE lessons series on repair and regulation (lessons 1-7) and the upright repair lessons (lessons 8-19). If you are working on a grand, you'll want lessons 20-35 instead of 8-19. There is also a PACE series on tuning.

In the "Books" section of the store, there are also a lot of useful titles, such as "The Piano Action Handbook", "A Guide To Restringing", "Piano Technicians Guide to Field Repairs", and a few others, depending on what type of repair you're interested in.




I agree, the PACE are the best reading to understand regulation... Tuning also is OK
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2037639 - 02/22/13 05:33 PM Re: Artur A. Reblitz Book [Re: greatlifestyle]
miscrms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 187
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Thanks fishbulb, looks like some good stuff on there. Does anyone have any comments on the "Vertical Regulation Curriculum Workbook" offered on the PTG Store?
rob
_________________________
1874 Steinway Upright "Franken" Stein

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#2037646 - 02/22/13 05:43 PM Re: Artur A. Reblitz Book [Re: miscrms]
fishbulb Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/13
Posts: 50
Hmm, missed that one. At 136 pages, the Curriculum Vertical Regulation Workbook looks like a better buy than the PACE Vertical Regulation, which is 56 pages. Then again, all those extra pages could just be blank "notes" pages or something ;-)

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#2038174 - 02/23/13 09:39 PM Re: Artur A. Reblitz Book [Re: greatlifestyle]
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 1239
Loc: Ohio, US
When I first started messing with my piano I got out every book I could get through the library system and I decided the Reblitz one was what I wanted my own copy of. I can't judge for grands but it helped me get my 100+yr old upright into acceptable shape when doing it myself was really the only option I had. It was tedious and frustrating work but very rewarding.
_________________________
I'll figure it out eventually.
Until then you may want to keep a safe distance.


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