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#2036860 - 02/21/13 10:14 AM Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10
SDaniel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 21
Loc: France
Hello to all members of this forum. This is my first post, although I've been reading you for a few months now. It's been very useful to me to help make a choice for a new DP. I've finally purchased a Kawai MP10 three weeks ago (after about 15 years playing and touring with a Roland RD 600).

First I'd like to address a few words to Kawai James, for him to transmit to his colleagues, to congratulate them for the MP10! It's definitely a great DP, and although I hesitated a lot to go with Kawai (almost impossible to find a stage piano in a store here, you have to trust the vendor who lets you play a console and says "Yeah, it's just the same, but portable", plus I read lots of comments about issues with the first units... A little scary when you go for a 2000€ keyboard!) but in the end I am VERY happy with it. I compared with a few others that simply didn't make it for me. The MP10 is the closest to the "real thing" DP I found (of course this is a personal taste). Congratulations guys you did a great job!

Now let's go for the less pleasant part of the message (!!)
I just noticed an issue with the sostenuto pedal: Playing an ostinato left hand part with a bass and chord rhythmic stuff, hold by the sostenuto, and jamming with the right hand above it. Then what happens is that the notes of the left hand begin to cut, then "clicks" appear, and then certain notes just don't play anymore. Things become normal again after a (long) while if I just stop playing the right hand and continue with the left one, then the notes progressively return to their normal behavior. Noticed the same with two different pedals (the provided F 20 unit, and a Roland sustain pedal, not sure what the reference is, maybe DP6?)

I'm not sure if this is a polyphony limit (so there's nothing to do with it), or a bug (and then I'll have to have my new baby sent to after sale service?!...) Anyone has an idea?

By the way, I might look for a third Kawai pedal, I saw to references, F10 and F10H. Which one is appropriate? Will the new F30 be available and suitable for the MP10?

Thanks for reading to the end !



Edited by SDaniel (02/21/13 05:42 PM)

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#2037108 - 02/21/13 05:44 PM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
SDaniel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 21
Loc: France
Well, don't hurry! One at a time please!

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#2037114 - 02/21/13 05:50 PM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2423
Loc: UK
Patience. International time differences!

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#2037120 - 02/21/13 05:55 PM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
SDaniel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 21
Loc: France
Yeah! Thank you Spanishbuddha, now I feel less alone! ;-)

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#2037148 - 02/21/13 06:38 PM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9528
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Good morning SDaniel,

Thank you for your positive feedback regarding the MP10.

Now, with regards to your query, may I suggest the following:

1. Please check that the instrument's software is up-to-date. The latest version is v1.05. To check the software version installed on your MP10, power on the instrument while holding the STORE button. If the 'Program:' number shown on the screen is less than v1.05, I would recommend downloading and installing the latest software version from the this page

Of particular note is a fix in v1.03 of the software:

Originally Posted By: MP10 v1.03 software update
Fixed: Pressing/releasing Sostenuto pedal may truncate String Resonance sound.


2. If updating the software does not resolve the issue, my recommendation would be to report the problem to the Kawai dealer and/or the Kawai distributor in your country (e.g. Hohner France).

It may also be worthwhile to create an audio recording of the issue that you are experiencing using either the MP10's 'USB Audio' function, or by capturing the audio from the LINE OUT jacks.

3. If the Kawai dealer/Kawai distributor in your country is unable to resolve the issue, my next recommendation would be to contact Kawai Europe using the addresses on this page.

Originally Posted By: SDaniel
By the way, I might look for a third Kawai pedal, I saw to references, F10 and F10H. Which one is appropriate? Will the new F30 be available and suitable for the MP10?


To add a third pedal to the MP10, a momentary footswitch can be connected to the FSW jack. When combined with the included F-20 pedal unit and assigned correctly, this allows a soft, sostenuto, and damper pedal configuration.

The F-30 triple pedal unit is currently only available for/included with the new VPC1 virtual piano controller. While it is technically possible for the F-30 to be used with the MP10 (and MP8/MP8II), a software update will be required to enable full triple pedal functionality.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2037221 - 02/21/13 09:16 PM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
SDaniel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 21
Loc: France
Hello Kawai James, thank you for your suggestions. I will try the software update tomorrow, and I'll let you know. I wish this would be the answer, but it is a brand new instrument that I bought a few weeks ago. Wouldn't you expect the software to be the latest one? As for the audio file, yes, it's gonna be easy to do.

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#2037227 - 02/21/13 09:29 PM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9528
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: SDaniel
I wish this would be the answer, but it is a brand new instrument that I bought a few weeks ago. Wouldn't you expect the software to be the latest one?


Not necessarily - it really depends on when the instrument was manufactured.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2037228 - 02/21/13 09:35 PM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
adak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
A comment about the pedal unit on the MP10. It comes with a 2 pedal unit. Can you sell the MP10 with the 3 pedal unit? The 3 pedal unit looks nicer, and you can charge more for it, I am sure myself and others would be willing to pay the higher price. One of the reasons that turned me off about the MP10 was the pedal unit, cause 2 pedals just does not look as aesthetically pleasing as 3 pedals. The piano itself is great, now for the next step the whole unit needs to look great.


Edited by adak (02/21/13 09:45 PM)
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-150


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#2037233 - 02/21/13 09:46 PM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9528
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
adak, I'm inclined to agree with you.

Perhaps the next MP will include the triple pedal unit?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2037235 - 02/21/13 09:49 PM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
SDaniel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 21
Loc: France
so, shall we understand you have top secret informations about a next MP ???

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#2037237 - 02/21/13 09:52 PM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9528
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Highly classified. wink
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2037403 - 02/22/13 09:03 AM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
SDaniel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 21
Loc: France
Kawai James

I just had a look at the software version, it is v1.04
So I guess I should try your update suggestion, but before that I'd like to ask one (silly?) question: if I do the software update myself, do I break the warranty?

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#2037607 - 02/22/13 04:43 PM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9528
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
No, updating the software should not affect your warranty.

However, if you are in doubt, I would recommend clarifying the situation with your Kawai dealer/distributor.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2038408 - 02/24/13 11:49 AM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
SDaniel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 21
Loc: France
Just to keep you informed: I e-mailed to Kawai France, to describe the problem and ask for the warranty question. Now waiting for their answer, hopefully monday...

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#2044331 - 03/07/13 04:55 AM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
SDaniel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 21
Loc: France
Hello! A few infos to keep informed those who might feel concerned, especially Kawai James who took time to answer me! And also to let everybody know that I don't "just feel not concerned anymore" after having gotten some answers !

It's been close to two weeks now since I e-mailed my problem and questions to the Kawai France after sale service, and still no answer from them.... frown (not good!...)

In the meantime I had telephone confirmation from the store where I purchased the piano that I could do a reset and/or software update without breaking the warranty. So I did both, and tested. The reset didn't resolve anything. The update improved the situation, although the problem is still there! Only it's much less important. What's happening now is that the notes (some notes, randomly) get cut but only at their very end, which makes an unnatural articulation (nothing as important as it was before though, since certain notes really didn't play at all !) It's easier to hear on the headphones, but on a recording it sure is very audible!

Since the problem still exists, the store recommends me to bring the piano back tho them so that they can hear what's happening and see what can be done. Sounds fair enough, so I'll do that. Not great because I need the instrument for rehearsal purposes, but eh! What else can I do?

Here is the situation. I'll let you know how things go...

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#2044349 - 03/07/13 06:26 AM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: SDaniel
It's been close to two weeks now since I e-mailed my problem and questions to the Kawai France after sale service, and still no answer from them.... frown (not good!...)


No, not good, but par for the course with Kawai it would seem...

Kawai dps seem to be kind of like Italian cars used to be: great as a second one to take out on the weekend as long as you don't rely on it for your day to day transportation and don't mind it being in the shop or waiting for the shop more than on the road...


Edited by theJourney (03/07/13 06:26 AM)

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#2044368 - 03/07/13 07:45 AM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 326
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Hey, TJ, that's unfair. Don't start the same war over and over.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2044373 - 03/07/13 07:59 AM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: mabraman]
rocklandpiano Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/26/13
Posts: 19
The instrument is very solidly made, weighing in at a hefty
70lbs, and it was pleasing to see real dark mahogany wood side
panels which gives a really classy appearance to this keyboard.
Part of the reason for the substantial weight of the MP10 is that
the keys are made of real wood operating a specially-designed
RM3 Grand Piano key action with key let-off just like a topquality
acoustic grand action. The wooden keys are covered
with a synthetic ivory-effect material in an attractive cream
colour and they feel extremely comfortable and non-slippy
under the fingers. As soon as I started playing the MP10 the
action felt completely comfortable to me and I suspect the same would apply for anyone
brought up on acoustic pianos. This feel of the key action is right for all styles of music
whether playing classical, jazz or popular music and simply cries out to be played. The
MP10 has by far the best key action of any portable keyboard I have so far played and it
reveals Kawai's pedigree in fine piano making. The instrument also comes with the F-20
double pedal unit featuring a sustain and una corda pedal although you can also switch
this to sostenuto if you prefer. There is a substantial metal music rack which fits into the
rear of the instrument.
_________________________
Piano players in Monsey, New York have relied on Charles Flaum since before 1990 for piano tuning, piano repairs and sage piano advice. Monsey, a family oriented village in Rockland County, is full of piano lovers with cherished pianos in their homes..

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#2044375 - 03/07/13 08:04 AM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9528
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
SDaniel, thank you for updating us on the situation with your MP10.

Originally Posted By: SDaniel
It's been close to two weeks now since I e-mailed my problem and questions to the Kawai France after sale service, and still no answer from them.... (not good!...)


Please note that the 'Kawai France' website is actually maintained by Hohner SA, Kawai's official French distributor. Kawai does not operate an office in France. Of course, this does not explain why you have yet to receive a reply to your query. Perhaps you could try calling the support numbers at this page: http://www.kawaifr.com/contact.asp

Originally Posted By: SDaniel
In the meantime I had telephone confirmation from the store where I purchased the piano that I could do a reset and/or software update without breaking the warranty.


I largely expected that this would be the case, but am glad the store confirmed this point to you.

Originally Posted By: SDaniel
The update improved the situation, although the problem is still there!


The changelog for v1.05 of the MP10 software (the latest version, which I assume you have updated to) does not appear to list any alterations to the sostenuto pedal behaviour. I'm therefore a little uncertain as to why you would perceive any changes - either good or bad. Did you create any 'before and after' recordings for comparison?

Originally Posted By: SDaniel
Since the problem still exists, the store recommends me to bring the piano back tho them so that they can hear what's happening and see what can be done.


That sounds like a good recommendation.

Originally Posted By: SDaniel
Not great because I need the instrument for rehearsal purposes, but eh! What else can I do?


Perhaps wait until after you have given your performance (assuming this is what you are rehearsing for?), then leave your MP10 with the store at a time when you can afford to be without it for a few days.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2044377 - 03/07/13 08:06 AM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
SDaniel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 21
Loc: France
The Journey:

Well... This is my first experience with Kawai. I've been using Korg, Roland, E-Mu, Yamaha, stuff for years, without trouble I must confess. But what's happening with this keyboard is new to me as I've always been used to trust the devices I use (and haven't been disappointed so far)

I don't know if it's a Kawai speciality, and have not heard such echo from the people I've known who use these instruments.

But on the other hand since a few months I've been reading a lot this forum, among others, because I was looking for infos about a new gear to buy, and I've discovered that many people seem to experience problems with brand new instruments. So I tend to believe that it is a sign of the time we're living in, that is to say that quality is not anymore the ultimate value that manufacturers try to respect ! Cost considerations are much more important to their eyes, and this leads to lower quality construction...

Is Kawai best or worst than others?...

Now, I admit that the french staff could have taken ONE MINUTE of their time (I'm sure they're very busy, but a consumer experiencing a problem with one of their instruments is part of their job, isn't it?) to answer me, even if it had been to say "sorry, we can't help". It would have been a rough answer, but it would at least have been an answer!

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#2044378 - 03/07/13 08:09 AM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: rocklandpiano]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9528
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: rocklandpiano
The instrument is very solidly made, weighing in at a hefty 70lbs...


Hmm...I'm not quite sure what is going on here, but your post appears to be an extract from this MP10 review.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2044382 - 03/07/13 08:20 AM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9528
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
SDaniel, calling Hohner SA for technical support does not prove fruitful, you may also wish to contact Kawai Europe using the information on this page.

It may also be worthwhile making a few recordings of the issue you are experiencing to help the technical support staff diagnose any problems.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2044384 - 03/07/13 08:21 AM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
SDaniel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 21
Loc: France
James:
yes I do have before/after recordings. I was just looking for the way to post them....

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#2044386 - 03/07/13 08:25 AM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9528
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: SDaniel
James:
yes I do have before/after recordings. I was just looking for the way to post them....


Any file sharing/hosting website will be fine.

However, I would still recommend that you pursue the official channels technical support channels (your Kawai dealer, Hohner SA, Kawai Europe).

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2044387 - 03/07/13 08:25 AM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: Kawai James]
SDaniel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 21
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Kawai James

I'm therefore a little uncertain as to why you would perceive any changes - either good or bad.


So am I... But I perceive it...

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#2044392 - 03/07/13 08:38 AM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
SDaniel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 21
Loc: France
Here are the before/after recordings.
Please don't look for artistic considerations, this is not the topic of course. In both cases the trouble occurs after more or less 30 seconds... It is HUDGE in the "before" version! It is much much more subtle in the "after" version", but headphones will help you hear it.
And by the way, yes I now have installed the 1.05 version of the software.

before update
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Byad-kOz7gKgQXJpUTVFUmNWQ0U/edit?usp=sharing

after update
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Byad-kOz7gKgUEd3YUI2QWswQ1U/edit?usp=sharing

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#2044394 - 03/07/13 08:41 AM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: Kawai James]
SDaniel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 21
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Kawai James

However, I would still recommend that you pursue the official channels technical support channels (your Kawai dealer, Hohner SA, Kawai Europe).


Yes, I've engaged the contact with my local dealer, and will follow this road, of course. Anyway your (or other people) advice is appreciated, and who knows, my experience might be useful to someone else, that's why I'd like to keep this topic up to date until the problem is solved.

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#2044399 - 03/07/13 08:48 AM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9528
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Thank you, I downloaded the recordings and can clearly hear the issue that you are referring to.

To clarify, the sostenuto pedal is being held throughout the entire piece, correct?

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2044414 - 03/07/13 09:15 AM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
SDaniel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 21
Loc: France
Yes it is! And to be precise, the sostenuto holds the left hand notes (bass and chord ostinato) while the left hand is playing something else.

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#2059428 - 04/04/13 05:39 PM Re: Sostenuto pedal issue with Kawai MP10 [Re: SDaniel]
SDaniel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 21
Loc: France
Hello! A little feedback on the latest events here with my MP10. Especially to keep Kawai James informed, as he was nice enough to spend some time on my issue.

I needed to keep the piano with me for a while, for rehearsal purposes, before a period of several gigs, therefore I've waited before I brought it back to the store. When I did it, I discovered that it wasn't necessary (opposite to what the store had told me...) BUT, I had an opportunity to speak on the telephone with someone in charge of the technical service at Hohner, who said he would contact Kawai in Japan.

Then, to make a long story short, after a few e-mails, he finally sent me a software update that successfully solved he problem.


So here it is, the story ends here. From the moment I spoke on the phone with this person until now, problem solved, it's been one week and a half. Quite fast. And successful.

So in the end I'd like to thank and congratulate Kawai, for the very good instrument that the MP10 is, and also for their efficiency in solving this issue. And thank you K. James for your beeing concerned.

I believe a little positive feedback can't hurt!

Thank you!

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