Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem?

My No.1 question as an adult beginner is:
How can I enjoy my own playing and relax by playing piano, instead of getting tense in my head because of the concentration on playing correctly (applying techniques) and expressively (listening to myself) at the same time?

My No.2 question as an adult beginner is:
How do I prevent bad habbits, if I can only afford to have a teacher supervising me fortnightly or monthly, and will I ever have a chance to get rid of my bad habbits which I already adopted as a child?

Any recommendation (also to proper literature on this topics) is wellcome!

I would say my problem is that I always want to try and play pieces that are out of my reach! Although I stick with my RCM exam syllabus, I frequently try and play a lot harder pieces and sometimes get disheartened on how long it's going to take to be able to get there!

Good evening. For my part I agree strongly with btb who earlier on in the thread singled out reading as the outstanding difficulty for adults trying to learn the piano or any instrument for the first time. One can make great progress with bad habits, poor technique, but one can't progress without achieving a certain ease reading a score. Reading is the key that opens all of the doors.

Hello all!

Very much beginner here and interesting to see this thread posted with common problems seen among us.

My question to you; how do we attempt to learn PROPER technique and help facilitate this with exercises and/or drills?

I'll offer some of my own issues/experiences on this because this is a very personal question and might be for others as well.

I attempted to learn piano playing a couple of years ago and like most I started with the Alfreds' series that was referred by many posters on this site, with no teacher mind you. Got up to book 2 and noticed that I was having crazy wrist pains (which is just one of the pains I was experiencing) and decided that my technique was bad and needed a teacher. Well, I've gone with several teachers, explained my situation, and all of the teachers seemed to look at it as a non-issue, which is very depressing because it is exactly what I sought for in a teacher and in my thinking THE MOST IMPORTANT THING A BEGINNER NEEDS TO HAVE! Concrete understanding/practice of pain-free playing! I've also deduced that my pain had nothing to do with other activities I partake in, seeing that my pain immediately disappeared after I took breaks and ultimately dropped piano playing.

Any feedback on this would be golden, because perhaps like in my case, there could be many beginner prospects who are very eager to learn and are dedicated in doing so but hit an actual physical roadblock, leading to dismissing the journey altogether.

Could it be that you are mistaken, that that is not what a beginner needs to have.

I'm only expressing my opinions and my experience alone but the fact that this forum is riddled day in and day out with beginners mentioning about pain with playing (back pain, wrist pain, etc.) makes me think that this is a very fundamental step we need to learn first. In my case I was attempting to run first without learning how to walk.

Of course a good teacher is the solution but the reason I posted my question is because I'm open to all ideas on the matter. I'm not by any means dismissing my past teachers as bad teachers, it's just that the pain was still present with the time I was with them. It's very disappointing and depressed me to the point of thinking that piano playing is not for me because of these hurdles.

fanatik22 - I think you are right, it's extremely important. As far as I can tell pain usually has to do with tension/tenseness. As much as we might think we are playing relaxed, we often are so used to it in ourselves, whether at work, or driving in traffic, or whatever, that we don't really know. And sometimes, even if the pain is in the hands, the tenseness is in the shoulders, or the back, or the neck.

Someone once posted a whole series of videos that deal with this - posture, relaxation, etc. I don't have them bookmarked but maybe s/he'll read this and re-post. But if not, it would be worth it to you to start a thread looking for those videos. I think they'd help a lot.

And I think you are right, it is fundamental for beginners. Many ABFers, as you have noticed, deal with it. Good point.

Cathy

Could it be that fanatik22 is not mistaken, and that these are things that beginner needs to have?

That is just too funny. If it were true, great legends such as Stevie Wonder or Ray Charles should give up their pianos. They probably never should have started, being blind and all, and unwilling to do braille sheet music.

Let's take the extreme case, a sight reading savant, can read anything, and play it, but has poor dynamics, terrible phrasing. Let's even say the phrasing is accurate, but as robotic as a MIDI computer track. There isn't an audience in the world that would pay money to listen to him/her play. Now the opposite extreme, someone that can learn by ear at a high level, can't sight read worth a thing, perhaps even blind, but has world class expression, fantastic phrasing and dynamics. Audiences flock to see this second performer.

For the average beginner, sight reading is one skill that is part of a balanced approach to learning. Too much emphasis on that one skill is not a good idea. Balance. Moderation. There is much to learn. Phrasing, dynamics, ear training, eventually improvisation and interpretation are other elements of a balanced approach.

And yes, what others have mentioned, if a person can't play without pain, they have zero chance at advancing. How can they if they can't practice at all?

ROTFLMAO! You sure blew that one away! Congrats!



Geesh Tigger... You're batting a thousand today!

I have to agree. I find it hard to believe that people don't bother to learn the proper physiology of playing. No excuses. A teacher doesn't know. That isn't the right teacher. We recently had a very good book on this suggested in this forum. Anybody else buy it? You don't even have to buy. Your library will get it for you. No excuses!
I've repeatedly suggested mobility as something to treat many problems. I failed to recognize that changing how one plays may be a key factor also.
Or is it that people just want to complain and come up with excuses to not do something? Self sabotage. Is the biggest problem....whining?

Sand Tiger,
I agree with your points, but just to be clear, I believe that both Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder learned to read music. There is a way of notating music with braille. It's not the same thing as regular sight reading, of course, but it may have been an important part of their musical development.

Warm Regards

Regarding Ray Charles and reading music: Ray Charles is a Blues piano player.

Back in the time when He was coming up, there basically was no written scores of the style in which he plays. I am referring to the piano playing of Charles Brown, among others for example, which Ray Charles used as his inspiration.

I know this for a fact, because when I was learning how to play Blues, a few decades after Ray Charles learned, nothing was available. No Blues Piano books, no tapes, no DVD's, no Youtube, nothing written out, unlike Pop or show tunes or Classical which has plenty of notation. To play the Blues, you listen to others play, you internalize it, and play it.

I am not talking about Jazzy Blues/standards, which may have notation available, but rather the style of, say, the free tune in my signature at the bottom of my posts. Have a listen...its free.

BTW, This tune was not written out; In fact, it was a warm-up jam we did at the beginning of the studio session to record my cd. What you hear is just how we played it...no practice, no rehearsals, no scores, and no fixing of the take later on in the studio.

Back to Ray Charles. Later, Ray wrote (in his head) all of his later music that made him famous. Others may have scored it so they could play along with him, but he didn't need it written down.

Which is also how I and many others play Blues...never from a score...its in my head, I hear it.

Bottom line is I don't know if Ray Charles read Braille music; But reading music would not have been any help for Ray Charles to play like the Ray Charles that we know.

Rocket88,
From what I've read, Ray Charles mainly learned to play music at the "Florida School for the Deaf and Blind" where he was a classically trained pianist. This likely would have been where he would have learned to read Braille scores. It's not that uncommon for great blues and jazz players to initially have a foundation in classical music. I think that such a foundation would definitely have helped Ray become the Ray Charles we know. Of course, over the years that followed he built a greater house upon that foundation. You may know that Ray initially started out with a style aimed at emulating Nat King Cole, but later started to develop his own unique style, particularly through the diverse venues he played on the so called "chitlin' circuit."

I think you're right that later as he wrote/composed his own music, that it was much more improvisational and by ear. So I disagree with you only slightly on that point, in that I suspect that his classical training probably helped him. And in the end it doesn't matter, I suspect that if you were to try you could probably find lots of great pianists who couldn't read a note on a score if their life depended on it. But I do find the history of people like Mr. Charles to be fascinating.

Warm regards

I agree! The safe learning environment is awesome. I did speak with her last week about a piece I put down too easily. I told her I need clear expectations and that I would work until I meet or exceed her demands. In retrospect, she gives my daughter lots of work but likely allows me to set my own pace as I am adult. She's a wonderful and caring teacher and I feel very comfortable... And your advice was spot on! Thanks

Agreed!

OK Stevie ...



... and Ray. Good luck!

If you want to learn to write, to write creatively, do you sign up in a writing class and then ask the teacher as your starting point how to do so without suffering physical pain? Posture, relaxation, the "correct" way to hold your pen?

Learning to play a musical instrument is an artistic endeavor. The physical aspect is derivative of what you have to say musically.

I'm in no way dismissing that a beginner shouldn't learn theory, learn how to read scores, and develop the artistic aspect of learning a musical instrument instrument, it's just that in my case, i've come to the roadblock of physical limitations with my technique first. As such, pain is the result of this. All in all, I've learned not to underestimate what bad technique can do to do the body.

landorrano, you speak in terms of 100% perfect situations where any teacher can remedy any problems a beginner may have. What does this say of myself and of my past teachers? Am I considered to be a bad student? Likewise, would my past teachers considered to be bad teachers? Again, I'm speaking on behalf of my personal experience. Maybe this is what others are going through as well.

Perhaps later down the road I will experience the hardships of trying to create my own artistic sound but as of right now, in the context of what the OP is asking which is what questions/problems a beginner (such as myself) may have, proper technique and pain-free playing is a number priority and at the top of my list.

Thank you for the recommendations jotur! I've went on sort of a mission to find any and all material in regards to pain-free playing. It's all just become very fascinating to me. I've acquired materials such as What Every Pianist needs to know about the body, the taubman tapes, and freeing the caged bird, but it is very much over my head.

It's been about a year since I've last attempted to pursue how to play. Heck, this account was made back in 2009! Unfortunately, teachers are scarce around my area but I am still very diligent in finding one and more importantly a match for me.

landorrano, learning to play the piano is not only about learning to write creatively. It also includes the analogous step of learning how to write, period, which starts out with learning how to hold a pencil or pen. Hence including information about and training in how to play pain-free is appropriate in the beginning stages of learning to play the piano, rather than being only seen as a derivative remedial effort.