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Joined: May 2005
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If you like the Bach Inventions, then they will work for developing your control. If you do not, chances are you will get tired of them before you get what you want from them. You should learn 2-3 of the inventions whether you "like" them or not - because, quite frankly, if you can't play these fairly simple works with some degree of control you most likely won't be able to perform more advanced contrapuntal works successfully either.  In an age where you can push a button and play any music that you like, that is the sort of advice that keeps people from learning to play an instrument. Guess it's a good thing I'm not teaching anymore.  Let the button pushing begin....
Last edited by carey; 02/23/13 09:17 PM.
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About HT vs HS - it is also subjective to a certain degree of course. If you don't find it difficult to play HT *SLOWLY* to learn Bach, then go for it, as others have said. But if you feel you struggle too much don't. However, I think there will always be passages which you will have to practice HS.
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Music is my best friend.
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Whether you opt to practice hands together or hands separately - at some point (preferably early in the learning process rather than later) you should consider writing the fingering in for the trickier passages - and then try to stick to it.
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Anyway, those are some of the kinds of road signs that can help make sense of Bach. It's always a delightful bit of problem solving!
I think there's been a bit of a miscommunication. The easy step is identifying each motif as it's playfully manipulated, distended, mirrored etc. throughout the Inventions and Sinfonias. However, in contrast to say a waltz, the dense polyphony starts right at the beginning and does not let up until the last chord. Voices move in and out seemingly on any beat, intermingling perfectly, lending the pieces a random feeling, but I prefer to think of it as inspired genius writing. I'll continue a bit to sharpen my point because maybe there is help to be found. The "random" quality makes these pieces tricky to analyze structurally (and, for me, memorize). Maybe one should have written, "Where is the harmonic/melodic structure?" but I felt it didn't have the same furore in the spur of the moment I wanted to represent in pencil on my manuscript. For one thing - and I have been meaning to ask Kreisler this forever - how on earth can one decipher which key the modulation has switched to so quickly? Unlike Chopin's Waltzes or - or more recently for me, Tchaikovsky's Seasons - there seems no high-level handle which allows easy entry into the Inventions and Sinfonias, despite how short each one is. It's an enchanting quality that keep one coming back to the sets. Sorry I didn't get your full meaning. It certainly would be interesting to hear what an expert like Kreisler has to say about the modulations. Personally, I usually depend on accidentals, or the lack thereof, to track the harmonic flow. For example, if a piece is in G minor and I'm seeing B naturals but not E naturals, my first guess is that the passage I'm looking at is probably in C minor. But examining the notes like that - with a microscope, so to speak - is a far cry from understanding the overall structure. I hope you find what you're after, Wower!
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I agree with wowser ... the Bach Inventions are sheer
purgatory ... up and down and all over the shop.
They gave me cod liver oil when I was 6 years of age ... I’ve steered clear of the ghastly stuff ever since ... but to come clean ... now I’d don’t like Bach (except in teeny-tiny doses) ...
there are much better chaps like Chopin and Debussy to brighten the day.
Bach for King ... put up your hands ... one, two ...
any more?
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About HT vs HS - it is also subjective to a certain degree of course. If you don't find it difficult to play HT *SLOWLY* to learn Bach, then go for it, as others have said. But if you feel you struggle too much don't. However, I think there will always be passages which you will have to practice HS. With Bach, each hand is as important as the other and you must be able to use each equally well. You'll find that the left hand drives everything. Practise hands separately, whether you find it difficult to play hands together or not. There are works I've known for 30 years that I revisit and work through hands separately, because you give yourself the chance to learn (or re-learn) the geography of a work in greater detail and on a broader scale by breaking it down. Slow practise is an absolute must as well (no greater than half tempo until it's in your fingers) and there is simply no substitute for intelligent fingering, which is everything when it comes to Bach...I cannot even begin to stress the importance of fingering with this music! If you have no teacher then get one (which really should go without saying...)
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
♪ ≠$
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Joined: Dec 2009
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Whether you opt to practice hands together or hands separately - at some point (preferably early in the learning process rather than later) you should consider writing the fingering in for the trickier passages - and then try to stick to it. And not only the trickier passages. I have many, many scores that have every single note fingered(granted, this makes for a rather messy ordeal at times when you decide that another fingering is stronger than the one you've been using). Now I'm not saying everyone should write in a fingering for every single note, but I am saying that we should go further with it than we usually do, because what comes before and what comes after makes such a huge difference.
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
♪ ≠$
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Joined: May 2005
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I agree with wowser ... the Bach Inventions are sheer purgatory ... up and down and all over the shop. They gave me cod liver oil when I was 6 years of age ... I’ve steered clear of the ghastly stuff ever since ... but to come clean ... now I’d don’t like Bach (except in teeny-tiny doses) ... there are much better chaps like Chopin and Debussy to brighten the day.
Bach for King ... put up your hands ... one, two ... any more? ... three.... Bach IS King !!!!
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Joined: May 2005
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Now I'm not saying everyone should write in a fingering for every single note, but I am saying that we should go further with it than we usually do, because what comes before and what comes after makes such a huge difference. So true !!!!
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because what comes before and what comes after makes such a huge difference. Thank you for expanding on your argument for HS. Just a followup question; your point above was not entirely clear to me but I have a nagging feeling it might be important. Would you be so kind as to elaborate?
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Think of it like a great pool player. A great pool player hits the cue ball not only so that his target ball goes where he wants it, but the cue ball ends up in the proper position for the next shot. You have to play the piano not just so you are playing the note when you get to it, but so your hand is set to play the next note.
That is often a problem with published fingerings. That is usually the most important advice that they give, but it is often interspersed with extraneous fingerings.
Semipro Tech
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One comment stores made may have gone unnoticed: the left hand drives everything. This is an aspect a non-baroque specialist may not appreciate. The LH does indeed drive everything and it just one of the many advantages of playing Bach - assuming the majority of pianists are right-handed. The LH is not only strengthened, it becomes an equal partner and a dominant partner when the need arises in other music. Playing Bach therefore enables the player, in other music, to focus on either hand as the driver, rather than, as can happen, the poor old LH trying to keep up with the RH.
Bach's music is wonderful to play for its own sake, but it sure has plenty of use for tackling other music: equality of hands/parts being just one.
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