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#2038890 - 02/25/13 07:48 AM Re: Memorization process question [Re: RonaldSteinway]
prenex Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 207
Loc: Minnesota
In a very condensed sense, first we experience the world, then we learn to read, then we read to learn. We have it backwards in music. When reading a book we experience an inner life as rich as the world we live in. When it comes time to read to learn we already have knowledge about the stuff we need to learn. In music, when we start with step three we start with zero knowledge about the world of music.

Of course this is just one model, but I think it's the most practical, and it makes sense to me.

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#2038899 - 02/25/13 08:04 AM Re: Memorization process question [Re: Derulux]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8683
Originally Posted By: Derulux
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Derulux

Music is a language like any other, except we don't understand it as words, but rather process it as groups of sounds.



Actually, it isn't a language like any other. One of the several reasons why it isn't: people have danced to music since prehistory, but do not dance to language.

And before instruments, those people used their voices. wink


However it all initially transpired (and I'm not at all convinced they used their voices prior to rhythmically beating on things), the point remains - people dance to music, but not to language, and therefore, music isn't a language like any other.

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#2038917 - 02/25/13 08:40 AM Re: Memorization process question [Re: wr]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 13816
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Derulux
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Derulux

Music is a language like any other, except we don't understand it as words, but rather process it as groups of sounds.



Actually, it isn't a language like any other. One of the several reasons why it isn't: people have danced to music since prehistory, but do not dance to language.

And before instruments, those people used their voices. wink


However it all initially transpired (and I'm not at all convinced they used their voices prior to rhythmically beating on things), the point remains - people dance to music, but not to language, and therefore, music isn't a language like any other.


It has been proven that music is processed in the same areas of the brain that language is - Broca's area. However, I don't think it's scientifically correct to say "music is a language" but rather that music and language share many similar properties. Here is an interesting article on research on the subject:

http://cel.huji.ac.il/courses/structureandprocesses/Bibliography/Fadiga_Annals_2009.pdf

Interestingly enough, there appears to be an association not only with music and language, but also with dancers and athletes as well as pointed out in the above article. Yet you would not say that sports are a language. I'm sure some may say dancing is a language and could make a case for that. I suppose in a loose sense of the term 'language' as something that communicates a thought or feeling, perhaps you could say music and dance are both languages. Not sure about athletic endeavors, though.


Edited by Morodiene (02/25/13 08:43 AM)
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



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#2038934 - 02/25/13 09:39 AM Re: Memorization process question [Re: Morodiene]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8683
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Derulux
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Derulux

Music is a language like any other, except we don't understand it as words, but rather process it as groups of sounds.



Actually, it isn't a language like any other. One of the several reasons why it isn't: people have danced to music since prehistory, but do not dance to language.

And before instruments, those people used their voices. wink


However it all initially transpired (and I'm not at all convinced they used their voices prior to rhythmically beating on things), the point remains - people dance to music, but not to language, and therefore, music isn't a language like any other.


It has been proven that music is processed in the same areas of the brain that language is - Broca's area. However, I don't think it's scientifically correct to say "music is a language" but rather that music and language share many similar properties. Here is an interesting article on research on the subject:

http://cel.huji.ac.il/courses/structureandprocesses/Bibliography/Fadiga_Annals_2009.pdf

Interestingly enough, there appears to be an association not only with music and language, but also with dancers and athletes as well as pointed out in the above article. Yet you would not say that sports are a language. I'm sure some may say dancing is a language and could make a case for that. I suppose in a loose sense of the term 'language' as something that communicates a thought or feeling, perhaps you could say music and dance are both languages. Not sure about athletic endeavors, though.


Yes, I know that music is, at least partially, processed in the same part of the brain as language. But that doesn't justify saying it is a language like any other. To me, anyway, it clearly is not.

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#2039230 - 02/25/13 07:05 PM Re: Memorization process question [Re: wr]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 13816
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Derulux
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Derulux

Music is a language like any other, except we don't understand it as words, but rather process it as groups of sounds.



Actually, it isn't a language like any other. One of the several reasons why it isn't: people have danced to music since prehistory, but do not dance to language.

And before instruments, those people used their voices. wink


However it all initially transpired (and I'm not at all convinced they used their voices prior to rhythmically beating on things), the point remains - people dance to music, but not to language, and therefore, music isn't a language like any other.


It has been proven that music is processed in the same areas of the brain that language is - Broca's area. However, I don't think it's scientifically correct to say "music is a language" but rather that music and language share many similar properties. Here is an interesting article on research on the subject:

http://cel.huji.ac.il/courses/structureandprocesses/Bibliography/Fadiga_Annals_2009.pdf

Interestingly enough, there appears to be an association not only with music and language, but also with dancers and athletes as well as pointed out in the above article. Yet you would not say that sports are a language. I'm sure some may say dancing is a language and could make a case for that. I suppose in a loose sense of the term 'language' as something that communicates a thought or feeling, perhaps you could say music and dance are both languages. Not sure about athletic endeavors, though.


Yes, I know that music is, at least partially, processed in the same part of the brain as language. But that doesn't justify saying it is a language like any other. To me, anyway, it clearly is not.





I was agreeing with you that saying it's a language isn't quite accurate. Also, I wanted to post again because I decided having 6 quotes looked neat. wink
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



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#2039249 - 02/25/13 07:37 PM Re: Memorization process question [Re: Morodiene]
RealPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 2469
Loc: NYC
As a player of mostly contemporary music, I haven't memorized anything in years...except just recently. There's one non-tonal piece where the texture is constant, and motives are so self-similar but always different. Somehow, playing from the music did not help! So, with a goal of recording it this summer, I'm memorizing it. The hand movements, the intervals, the sonorities. I'm working a page at a time, from the last to the first.

It's only three to five minutes, but an insane three to five minutes.
_________________________
Joe

www.josephkubera.com

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