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#1995135 - 12/05/12 04:57 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1408
Loc: under monsoon clouds
That's a good point; this is a common issue with many of Chopin's pieces, and it may well have been less of a problem on instruments of the 1830s and '40s. Also, there is more of a tonal difference between treble and bass areas of the earlier instruments; on today's pianos the registers blend together more. So melodies in the higher, more "tinkly" part of the piano may have stood out more distinctly without special efforts.

(It could be worse. My harpsichord teacher mentions that composers in different countries took into account the way their local instruments were made and what part of the range was loudest. For those of us playing the "wrong" country's type of instrument, this can be obnoxious, and there's nothing at all we can do to balance the dynamics.)

Elene

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#1996668 - 12/08/12 11:59 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Elene Offline
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Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1408
Loc: under monsoon clouds
Here's my teacher's teacher, Sheila Paige, giving a clear introduction to basic pianistic movements in Taubman Approach style. I think you'll find it useful. She uses the "Black Key" etude as an example, and you can easily hear the difference between the "before" and "after."

"How Motion Affects Sound"

Elene
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#2000451 - 12/16/12 09:10 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
cscl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Suburban Boston
Want to save a podcast?

I've enjoyed listening to the "Play it again, Swig" podcast for about the past year. The pianist's goal is to learn all of the Chopin Etudes. The podcast comes from Jocelyn Swiggert, a pianist and professor of music.

Play it again, Swig

I've found it very interesting to listen to over the past year or so. It's worth taking a look at, but she's at her penultimate podcast! If she doesn't get 100 reviews on iTunes by December 20 or she's going to retire the podcast. She has about 18 so far, so I figure there must be 82 Chopin fans around here who are also piano learners and would like to keep a resource like this going!

Go here to find the podcast on iTunes: Play it again, Swig (subscribe and write a review on iTunes)
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#2000465 - 12/16/12 09:44 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: cscl]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19644
Loc: New York
(apparently it's Swigger -- no T) smile

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#2001263 - 12/18/12 04:24 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
cscl Offline
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Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Suburban Boston
Thanks for catching my typo, actually a mishearing from the podcast!

Jocelyn Swigger
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cscl
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#2001271 - 12/18/12 04:33 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
cscl Offline
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Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Suburban Boston
I see she has 20 ratings, but only 13 reviews. It was 100 reviews that was the goal. Doesn't look like this one's going to make it to another season, so to speak! But two more days to go for all you would-be Chopin Etudes podcast lovers out there.
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cscl
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#2003215 - 12/22/12 06:56 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
cscl Offline
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Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Suburban Boston
Keeping up the Swig theme...

She posted a cool medley of Christmas Carols and Chopin Etudes. You can find the audio at the link as well as a video and on YouTube here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghEZ00LjAfs

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cscl
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#2003287 - 12/23/12 12:07 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: cscl]
Elene Offline
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Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1408
Loc: under monsoon clouds
Scarily well done! Thanks for posting!

I wonder if Our Friend knew any of these tunes? I'm not sure when they were composed, or whether any were played in his part of the world. (Not taking time to look them up just now.)

Elene
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#2006323 - 12/30/12 01:50 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

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Loc: New York
I posted about this on Pianist Corner but figured it might be of interest here too.

After years of hearing Horowitz's recordings of the A-flat Polonaise, I just noticed a "cheat" that he does on the scale runs.

Check this out: smile



The runs are at 1:10, 1:48, 3:07, and 6:31. What he does is, he interrupts the left hand a few notes before the top and jumps it directly to the top note.

Why? A couple of things, I think. It enables the left hand to play the top note more brilliantly; plus, by causing a sudden drawn-down of the volume when he stops the left hand, it enables a more dramatic overall crescendo to the top.

Many would frown on it. I think it's great. Of course we have to be careful about monkeying with what the composer wrote, but.....it all depends, doesn't it? smile

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#2010389 - 01/07/13 03:30 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Mark_C]
Elene Offline
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Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1408
Loc: under monsoon clouds
It's fascinating to be able to watch Horowitz so close up.

I wouldn't be able to pick up on any "cheating" in the scale passages, though I do hear wrong notes at some other times. Whenever I've heard recordings of Horowitz playing this piece there have been obvious mistakes (Rubinstein too). It's refreshing to know they're human.

Elene
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#2011484 - 01/08/13 11:25 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1408
Loc: under monsoon clouds
Chopin would go nuts over this, if he could somehow get there.

Kakawa Chocolate House

Elene

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#2014415 - 01/14/13 12:31 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
FarmGirl Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 1893
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
Have a question. I got assigned to 2 etudes this year. Chopin's of course. Etude #3 Op 10-3 and # 25, well the one with 3 against 4. I did not see the opus number for the latter. And I'm not sure if it's a part of the 24 etudes. I know it must be a really stupid question.
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Solo - Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2, Schubert Sonata D960 Andante sostenute (9/7/14), Bach f minor Fugue WTC Bk1, Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Chopin Trois Nouvelles Etudes #1



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#2014703 - 01/15/13 12:46 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: FarmGirl]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
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It's not part of the 24 etudes of Opuses 10 and 25 -- it's the first one of the three in the set called Trois Nouvelles Etudes, without an opus number. smile

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#2014712 - 01/15/13 01:43 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
FarmGirl Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 1893
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
No wonder! It's not part of the set. I thought I was crazy. Thank you.
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#2015035 - 01/15/13 05:09 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Elene Offline
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Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1408
Loc: under monsoon clouds
Have fun with those etudes! Two of the Trois Nouvelles Etudes, at least, are more accessible than Op. 10 and Op. 25-- once you get past the polyrhythms, anyway.

(OCD Moment: By the way, I had never seen the plural of "opus" written as "opuses," only as "opera," though the dictionary says both are correct. I remember this confused one of the teachers when I was in music school-- he couldn't figure out why it was being said that a certain guitar composer had written opera.)


By way of Mary-Rose, here's an article I think a lot of us can relate to:

Guardian Editor learns G minor Ballade

An extremely busy middle-aged man who hasn't played since his teens decides that not only will he take up the piano again, he will learn a major virtuosic piece, and do it within a year, despite only having 20 minutes of practice time per day. And he does it. It takes much more than a year, but he does it. And then he writes a book about it, too.

His descriptions of his lessons cracked me up. Definitely been there!

Elene
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Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://elenelistens.com






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#2015045 - 01/15/13 05:30 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6095
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: Elene
By the way, I had never seen the plural of "opus" written as "opuses," only as "opera," though the dictionary says both are correct.


I think it is similar to forums vs fora as the plural of forum... smile
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#2015133 - 01/15/13 09:24 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19644
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Elene
....I had never seen the plural of "opus" written as "opuses," only as "opera"....

Truth: My initial version of that post included a "BTW" about those two plurals, and explaining why I wrote Opuses. ha
I took it out before hitting "Submit" because I figured (wrongly!), who cares. smile

I would never use the other form except when it's for a slightly different usage of "Opus," which in fact is the only usage for which I've ever seen that form: when the usage is for "works" in a generic sense -- i.e. opus being the word for "a work," and opera being the plural, meaning "works." I've never seen it used that way for plural of opus numbers, and I think it would look funny and fail to be understood by most people if we said "opera" for that.

And come to think of it, I think it would be mostly misunderstood for the other usage too. I know that I misunderstood it when I first saw it. My college library had a set of volumes titled "Vivaldi Opera." I assumed for a while it meant that other thing, until I happened to mention to someone that the library had volumes of Vivaldi operas and he told me there's no such thing. grin
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#2015190 - 01/15/13 11:09 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
FarmGirl Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 1893
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
Elena, thank you for your kind words. The first one of the trio will be my very first Chopin Étude and Op. 10 #3 is going to be my second one. I'm very excited. I am tuckling with the poli-rhythm applying the least common denominator. You know it's 3 against 4. I am doing it slowly now assigning 3 beats for each of the 4 notes. It's like One an dah Two an dah, Three an dah, Four an dah (Bold letter indicate where i play each of the three notes). .I think I am getting the feel. I am also try to do this with my hands and feet too. Hope I can get it soon


Edited by FarmGirl (01/15/13 11:12 PM)
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#2017027 - 01/19/13 01:13 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1408
Loc: under monsoon clouds
Well, actually, Mark, Vivaldi did write operas, in the sense of "big dramatic production with singers." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_operas_by_Vivaldi They just haven't been performed as often as those by Handel.

The Santa Fe Opera did his "Griselda" in 2011; otherwise I'd have been oblivious to Vivaldi as an opera composer, too. I was one of those who wrote a review expressing misgivings about the scenery:
http://elenedom.wordpress.com/2011/09/28/ope-rant/

I don't suppose Chopin ever got to see a Vivaldi opera.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

FarmGirl,
There's a mnemonic using the names of composers that helps get the sound of 3 against 4. Something like "Bach, Chopin, Brahms and Liszt." Anybody remember an official version? I just remember that when I first learned that F minor etude from "Trois Nouvelles Etudes," it was as if I could feel new circuits forming in my brain. Like my brain had to physically change to handle it. (Plucked string players don't grow up with polyrhythms.) But then it fell into place.

Have you tried drawing a diagram with 12 "ticks" and marking where the 4 notes and the 3 notes fall among the 12 divisions, so you can see how they line up with each other? That would be much like what you said, but a visual aid.

Elene
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#2017450 - 01/19/13 06:19 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
FarmGirl Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 1893
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
Elene, I drew a visual and it's very helpful. About the mnemonic, I recall one that uses Buick. I think any one of it will be useful to register it on my brain. I hope someone remembers.
_________________________
Solo - Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2, Schubert Sonata D960 Andante sostenute (9/7/14), Bach f minor Fugue WTC Bk1, Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Chopin Trois Nouvelles Etudes #1



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#2017472 - 01/19/13 07:01 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1408
Loc: under monsoon clouds
Let's see... "Ford, Buick, Hon-da..." Needs one more one-syllable word. Maybe just "cars"?

(I guess, strictly speaking, that kind of thing isn't a mnemonic, but I don't know what else to call it.)

************************

Last Sunday's "Pearls Before Swine" comic strip:

A guy who inexplicably has long donkey ears walks into cartoonist Stephan Pastis' office and says, "Excuse me, but are you the cartoonist who made fun of polka music a while back?"

Pastis: I guess. Who are you?

Guy: E.O.R.

Pastis: Eeyore?

E.O.R.: E.O.R.... Easily Offended Reader.

Pastis: Well, what's wrong with making fun of polka music?

E.O.R.: Polish people play polka music... It's offensive to Polish people.

Pastis: But I didn't even mention Polish people... What if I just make fun of accordions?

E.O.R.: Polish people play accordions. Still offensive.

Pastis: What if I just make fun of music?

E.O.R.: Polish people play music.

Pastis: Ohmygawd...FINE... I'll make fun of... uh... tetherball! Is that OK with you??

E.O.R.: No.

Pastis: What NOW?

E.O.R.: It has a pole. Could be viewed as a veiled reference.

Rat (a character in the strip): I say go ahead and make fun of Polish people.

Pastis: I give up.

E.O.R.: Hey, make fun of Russians! Now, THEY'VE got it coming!

**************************

Of course, we have no Easily Offended Readers around Piano World wink , so we cannot possibly relate to this.

Elene

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#2017562 - 01/19/13 10:13 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1408
Loc: under monsoon clouds
I meant to add my teacher's reaction to the Horowitz video that Mark posted, which was as follows:

"I'm not surprised to hear about what Horowitz does. Many virtuosos will rewrite/simplify scores by leaving out a note or two or redistributing for a better musical effect. I actually canceled my subscription to Clavier because some second-rate pianist/pedant wrote an article saying that it was "morally wrong" to leave out/redistribute notes. His argument was that audiences have paid to hear music EXACTLY as the composer wrote it. My feeling is that audiences pay to hear music and if redistribution or leaving out a note or two contributes to the musical experience then I have no issue."

On the other hand, Chopin did have some issues with Liszt, in particular, "rewriting" his stuff, didn't he. That may well have been more extensive, or more self-serving.

Elene
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#2017820 - 01/20/13 12:52 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: FarmGirl]
Jeff Kallberg Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/09
Posts: 211
Originally Posted By: FarmGirl
Elene, I drew a visual and it's very helpful. About the mnemonic, I recall one that uses Buick. I think any one of it will be useful to register it on my brain. I hope someone remembers.


FarmGirl: The best 4:3 mnemonic I know is (forgive the profanity): "Pass the g*dd*mned spinach". (Start tapping with both hands together, and the "4" hand takes the "the," and it tends to follow naturally after that.)

Jeff Kallberg

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#2036174 - 02/20/13 12:32 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1408
Loc: under monsoon clouds
Posted by Damon on its own thread:

http://www.radiochopin.org/welcome
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#2036272 - 02/20/13 08:20 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
Quote:
An extremely busy middle-aged man who hasn't played since his teens decides that not only will he take up the piano again, he will learn a major virtuosic piece, and do it within a year, despite only having 20 minutes of practice time per day. And he does it. It takes much more than a year, but he does it. And then he writes a book about it, too.

His descriptions of his lessons cracked me up. Definitely been there!

Elene


Yes, I posted about this a couple months ago on this forum as he is an inspiration for adult learners! Thanks for reminding me Elene- want to show this to my piano teacher. Not that I'd be up to this chap's standard in a year- he obviously has talent.
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#2036406 - 02/20/13 12:40 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
If any of you can play the Ballade there's a competition!

http://alanrusbridger.com/playitagain/competition
_________________________
"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."

"He who divines the secret of my music is delivered from the misery that haunts the world."


Ludwig Van Beethoven

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#2036650 - 02/20/13 10:59 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1408
Loc: under monsoon clouds
I'm thinking in terms of working on the G minor Ballade sometime next year, but not likely before... even though I can spend about 60 minutes a day practicing, not a mere 20.

Still dealing with the nocturne 48/1 and the Fantaisie-Impromptu at this point!

Elene

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#2036786 - 02/21/13 06:46 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
Best wishes with the nocturne and impromptu Elene.
_________________________
"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."

"He who divines the secret of my music is delivered from the misery that haunts the world."


Ludwig Van Beethoven

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#2038498 - 02/24/13 03:05 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6095
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
YouTube... Yeah, read the description... YouTube tutorial + a short keyboard (8 weeks)
Apart from that, I don't like his performance. So maybe it is true!! ha
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Music is my best friend.


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#2039439 - 02/26/13 06:10 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
The Hound Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/17/11
Posts: 124
I'm looking at doing the L'adieu waltz for my Grade 8 - what a stunning piece. I'm really in love with this version. Such a beautiful touch and interpretation. Sounds great on the Bosendorfer, too.

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