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#2037562 - 02/22/13 03:13 PM CLP-280 oraz CN23 or RP301
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 380
Loc: Poland
Hello,

I have the question, and the question isn't easy smile
I'm over 15 years playing piano (all acoustics) and classicaly trained. I have big demands concerning the action and sound,
but not enough money to buy something that I would like to have like RP-507 or CA-95 cry

However, taking in account my funds I found that I can buy 3 pianos (because I didn't found anything that can compete with them).

1. Kawai CN23
Little old, but I listened the recordings and seems to sound even ok (however, on youtube sometimes even Yamaha P-95 can sound almost like a grand)

2. Yamaha CLP-280
Old series, but TOP MODEL. NW Keyboard, 97kg of weight, powerful speakers and all the best of the best (in that time, 2006 probably. What I'm afraid of is does the new bottom Kawai will sound better than top-end old Yama?
I can have this piano used for little more that CN23.


3. Roland HP-301 - Probably comparable to Kawai, but I didn;t liked the sound, it's to sharp for me (eventhough it's SN).
Price the same as Kawai.


To be honest, the choice isn't easy between CLP-280 and Kawai/Roland. What is worse, I cannot play on that particular Yamaha - I can only go to the shop and play on one of current GH3/NW Yama piano.
On Kawai and Roland I can play.

Do you have any suggestions or thoughts?
The CLP-280 is without the RGE module (but I don't know is it so special, Yamaha in general as company is too much marketing and to less of development for me)

To say it in one sentence:
does the old top model will be MUCH better than new bottom-line piano of other manufacturer?

The problem is that the piano dealer which has the CLP (it's used model) is about 400km from my home so it's a long way to see the instrument.


Edited by kapelli (02/22/13 03:17 PM)

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#2037627 - 02/22/13 05:14 PM Re: CLP-280 oraz CN23 or RP301 [Re: kapelli]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8844
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
kapelli, it might help a little to know the prices of the three instruments you are considering.

However, I have to say, given the choice between a new CN23 or a second-hand CLP280, I would almost certainly opt for the Yamaha.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2037636 - 02/22/13 05:29 PM Re: CLP-280 oraz CN23 or RP301 [Re: kapelli]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 380
Loc: Poland
James,
the CN23 is around 1400-1500USD, RP-301 the same
CLP-280 about 100-200$ more

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#2037668 - 02/22/13 06:33 PM Re: CLP-280 oraz CN23 or RP301 [Re: kapelli]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8844
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
The CLP-280 was Yamaha's top of the range Clavinova a few years ago. Today's flagship CLP-480 is available from Thomann.de for 4222 Euros.

It's typically suggested that second-hand instruments should be priced at half their original cost when new. However, if you consider that the CLP-280 is a couple of generations old, this should reduce the cost a little more.

My suggestion would be to offer the dealer/seller $1500 USD (1100 Euros?) cash, and see if they accept.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2037824 - 02/23/13 04:20 AM Re: CLP-280 oraz CN23 or RP301 [Re: kapelli]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 380
Loc: Poland
Thx James, I was thinking about doing like you wrote, nice to have some other view.

I also take a look on used pianos prices sold by private people and... Many people still wants to sell very old and outdated in terms of sound and touch pianos for their 70% price...
However it was discussed in another thread here.

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#2037859 - 02/23/13 08:54 AM Re: CLP-280 oraz CN23 or RP301 [Re: kapelli]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3437
Loc: Northern England.
I fyou consider Youtube recordings, the private ones will be your best guide. Anything coming out of the dealership of a particular model will sound good. People here have paid a lot of money buying stuff they later regretted. I`m sorry you haven`t much options open to you to do this. Yamaha keyboards in my opinion are bullet proof.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes — but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2038113 - 02/23/13 06:06 PM Re: CLP-280 oraz CN23 or RP301 [Re: peterws]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2685
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: peterws
I fyou consider Youtube recordings, the private ones will be your best guide.
I disagree because most YouTube recordings use awful cameras. Line out recording is, at least, less dependent on the equipment.

Most often when we do video demos of digitals, we use the line out, but here is one that just uses an inexpensive but decent room mic to record what actually comes out of the speakers:
Yamaha YDP-C71PE Demo
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#2038261 - 02/24/13 02:28 AM Re: CLP-280 oraz CN23 or RP301 [Re: PianoWorksATL]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3437
Loc: Northern England.
The recording I just heard is typical of what I was warning our friend of. Every manufacturer`s DP seems to sound like a Steinway when you listen to `em played by an expert. They would, wouldn`t they?

So you buy. And repent at leisure . . .the Casio AP 650 is another example. I was set to go after one when I read an old posting of someone who did . . .

I`m sticking wi my DGX, Sounds better than all of `em . . .despite the keyboard


Edited by peterws (02/24/13 02:29 AM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes — but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2038265 - 02/24/13 02:42 AM Re: CLP-280 oraz CN23 or RP301 [Re: kapelli]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2685
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Actually, it sounds like a 3-layer AWM sample of a Yamaha CFIIIS played through speakers in an open room...only the pianist gets extra credit for making it sound good. wink
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#2038286 - 02/24/13 05:01 AM Re: CLP-280 oraz CN23 or RP301 [Re: PianoWorksATL]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 380
Loc: Poland
Yes, recordings on YT are some kind of mistery sometimes wink
however you can compare these three - each of them is at least ok in terms of sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjlDXwuKEvQ - official Yamaha video, for me it sounds immense (in the DP category)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ3JBa0TGOk - quite nice recording

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8IkctsYyig - listen to the keyboard - I don't know is it normal or this guy has something not ok that with the action, that gives plastic parts hitting sounds like 200$ keyboard...

the same effect he has here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InqPWhsViH4




Edited by kapelli (02/24/13 05:05 AM)

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#2038292 - 02/24/13 06:05 AM Re: CLP-280 oraz CN23 or RP301 [Re: PianoWorksATL]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3437
Loc: Northern England.
To be honest, PianoWorks, I just looked it up on my local piano dealer`s website. It retails for just under £1000; they have the YDPV240 in at £1300 which I liked very much. Because it is so similar to my own, so this one you showed us should be better with it`s dynamic sampling and GH keypad. Certainly sounds impressive for the price, and with a polished ebony case for no extra!

Maybe I was a tad hasty wi my comments. Sorry man . . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes — but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2038840 - 02/25/13 05:30 AM Re: CLP-280 oraz CN23 or RP301 [Re: kapelli]
MagicK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 70
Loc: Germany
The YDP V240 has GHS not GH.

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#2038855 - 02/25/13 06:10 AM Re: CLP-280 oraz CN23 or RP301 [Re: kapelli]
PtJaa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/14/12
Posts: 176
Loc: Czech Republic
Kapelli, just my $0.02:
1, IMHO, Youtube recordings do not show very well the quality of a piano sound from the player's perspective, they show how it sounds, but not how the sound responds (or rather how it doesn't) to the player.

2, Taking into account your experience with piano playing and interest in good sound, I'd suggest considering going the virtual piano route. You could choose which piano you buy by its action, and independently choose the virtual sound that best appeals to you. Virtual pianos are very cheap (for example Galaxy Vintage D for 130€ or Galaxy Giant for 100€) and their quality (and the whole experience of playing them) is much better than what digital pianos can offer. You would need to have a desktop or notebook computer near the piano, though.
_________________________
Kawai CA65 :: Galaxy: Vintage D, Vienna Grand, Giant :: Pianoteq 5 :: Kontakt 5 :: Reaper :: True Keys pianos

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