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#2039224 - 02/25/13 07:00 PM Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
What do folks that own (or, have had) the CLP-480 think about it?

1) Does this piano have full 88-key sampling as I am not sure if this detail is mentioned in the specs?

2) How does the wooden action behave and is it good with repetitions?

3) How well do the built-in speakers project the sounds?

The estimated retail price is currently around $5,364.*
(For the rosewood finish only, not ebony polish.)

*Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer guide

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#2039231 - 02/25/13 07:08 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3524
Loc: Northern England.
It`s not cheap, is it? Some DPs retailing below £1k actually have 88 key sampling and velocity sample levels too; according to Youtube they sound great. So this totr Yam sould be the business . . . .but will it fit in that corner?
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2039244 - 02/25/13 07:29 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
boyonahill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 90
Loc: Europe
For that money I'd go for a NU1.
_________________________
Current: Casio SA-46 + looking for a nice electronic piano
Sold: Yamaha M5J Walnut
Playing ability: Absolute Beginner(s)

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#2039248 - 02/25/13 07:34 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: boyonahill]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
I would like to hear any additional feedback from owners of this model (i.e., CLP-480) and specifically as to the playability with the speakers/soundboard perspective for the player.

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#2039408 - 02/26/13 02:15 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Question 1:

Does anyone know if the CLP-480 has 88 key sampling, similar to the Kawai CA95?

The specs page indicates it has "Stereo Sustain Samples" so does that mean all 88 keys are individually sampled?

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/keyboards/digitalpianos/clp_series/clp480/

Question 2:

Does the CLP-480 arrive preassembled from the dealer/store, or, does the customer have to put it together from the box?

The Owner's Manual shows detailed assembly instructions for the CLP-480 starting on page 82.

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#2039411 - 02/26/13 02:32 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
I think not. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe all CLP-4xx pianos share the same sound engine and thus the same set of samples. And I'm quite certain that CLP-430 does not have all 88 keys sampled.
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2039416 - 02/26/13 03:01 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Clayman]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
@Clayman,

Did you have to assemble your CLP-430 from the box, or, was it delivered from the dealer/store already preassembled?

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#2039419 - 02/26/13 03:26 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
Eh, sorry about the confusion. I don't own the CLP-430 but I think, since it's pretty much the lowest model in the CLP line, that it doesn't have all the keys sampled.

Yamaha would have touted such a feature more if the pianos did have it.

EDIT: Also, the keyboard is the same as with CLP-470, which is substantially cheaper (the CLP-470 is still one of the two pianos I'm considering for purchase in a few months). To be honest, I have not yet found the reason why the CLP-480 is so much more expensive than the CLP-470 since it "only" has an upgraded speaker system, a soundboard and more sounds. Do these extras really qualify for an extra ~$2000?

EDIT 2: Here is a ~10 MB brochure about the CLP series. It contains a "chart" of sorts where each model is listed with features upgraded from its preceding model.


Edited by Clayman (02/26/13 03:45 PM)
Edit Reason: Fixed a typo
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2039733 - 02/26/13 04:34 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Clayman]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Does anyone here know as to how the CLP-480 would ship from the store/dealer, in its box to be assembled by the customer, or, already fully assembled upon delivery?

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#2039766 - 02/26/13 05:32 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
gerion Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/16/11
Posts: 3
Loc: Seattle, WA
I don't know about the CLP-480, but my CLP-470 came in a big box and was partly assembled, that is I only had to set up the stand and then mount the top part. It's about 10 min work, 15 is you have a cautious approach. You need two people for assembly as the top part is heavy to handle alone (and anyway the delivery man probably won't bring the huge box into your house either)

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#2039811 - 02/26/13 07:15 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: gerion]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
@gerion,

My Kawai CA95 had arrived completely assembled as two delivery men simply had to cart it in off of their truck and roll it into place, ready to play.

I may ask to see if my local store can deliver it, i.e., a pre-assembled Yamaha in the same way, as I think they might do so if I request it.

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#2039839 - 02/26/13 08:14 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9019
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
pv88, it's perhaps worth noting that the CA95 is pre-assembled at the factory, due to the soundboard speaker.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2039842 - 02/26/13 08:25 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Kawai James]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
James,

It is interesting to note that there are also "GP" (Grand Piano) soundboard speakers in the back of the Yamaha CLP-480, although it appears from the owner's manual that one has to put all of these components together, from the box. It is a lot of work, including needing another person to help lift the very heavy console section onto the stand and screwing all this stuff together.

I am going to ask to see if the CLP-480 can be assembled at the store/dealer before it is delivered which will save me a lot of time and trouble. After it's put together they can easily move it on a small dolly, just as they did with the CA95. And, an assembled digital is basically ready to play after it gets rolled into place.

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#2039852 - 02/26/13 08:48 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3799
Loc: North Carolina
You can have it either way. Ask your dealer.
Originally Posted By: pv88
Does anyone here know as to how the CLP-480 would ship from the store/dealer, in its box to be assembled by the customer, or, already fully assembled upon delivery?

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#2039882 - 02/26/13 09:37 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: MacMacMac]
Macy Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 609
I'm one "those guys" that wants to assemble it myself because I want to know each bolt was tightened just right, and not stripped by a couple of kids hurriedly assembling it at the shop. And I want it to arrive at my home in the box without scratches, etc. Yeah, I'm one of those guys.

But I must say - my CVP-409GP arrived packed in the most Styrofoam I have ever seen in one box. Thick sheets of Styrofoam, big blocks of Styrofoam, the huge box was probably half full of Styrofoam. If the CLP-480 is packed anything like that, be prepared.


Edited by Macy (02/26/13 11:08 PM)
_________________________
Macy

CVP-409GP, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere

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#2039907 - 02/26/13 11:00 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Macy]
xorbe Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 570
Loc: Mt View, CA
Originally Posted By: Macy
my CVP-409GP

Oooh nice, I was just admiring the CVP-609GP yesterday! crazy

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#2039910 - 02/26/13 11:17 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: xorbe]
Macy Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 609
Originally Posted By: xorbe
Originally Posted By: Macy
my CVP-409GP

Oooh nice, I was just admiring the CVP-609GP yesterday! crazy


They are a nice MIDI keyboard, MIDI recorder, and speaker system for a software piano. Are you interested in the other bells and whistles? I probably use them 2% of the time, but they can be fun to fool around with once in a while.
_________________________
Macy

CVP-409GP, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere

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#2040378 - 02/27/13 08:42 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Wess. Chr. K. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/12/13
Posts: 37
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
Hi PV88,

during my "saga" finding DP for me and my 6 y.o. son, I started from Roland HP305, Roland RD-700NX, Yamaha CLP 470/480, CP 5, Kawai CA 65/95 SC 6/9, Yamaha NU1 and finally N1.

Personally I like sound of Roland. Therefore it stays on first position from those I tested. HP 305 has good key top, but the action is a bit lighter for me.
The sounds is brilliant and man can hear no any sample transition.
IMPO, next as a sound quality (not as an action) come 2 yamaha DP:

Yamaha CP 5(1)
and
CLP 470/480.

Both sound a bit different from each other.
I would prefer the sound of CPL 470 (480) over CP1. Very nice instruments, indeed. (480 is a bit pricy, don't you think?)
The sample transitions on first glance are difficult to be heard.
If you are interested on 88 key samples – you should be aware, that they are not your pianos.
There was an audio project, led by some colleague, where man can see and listen to the issues of sampling.
But honestly, they are very slide.
From other hand - Kawai, with all its derivates, is a DP with attractive price for its cabinet and action, but when is being recorded sounds harsh and with short decay. Its FX system and so called "sound board" are good as an idea for practicing (may be), but they do not help a lot if you need this instrument as a recording tool.

Talking about assembling of CPL series:
when I went to the shop to pick up my N1, there was one CPL 480 separated into 2 boxes – stand and keyboard. It is easy to transport it.

At the end: I would suggest, if you like the sound of CPL 480, think that in one moment you will work with headphones. Why not 470 then? It is cheaper and as a cabinet looks pretty the same.

Talking about the price: CPL 480 (PE) in Germany could be found for ca. €4670 and NU1 €4560 (inc.19% VAT).
The action and sound quality of NU1 is much better... Just try it. It has no any gadgets and extra presets, just two loudspeakers, but again IMO that is a DP piano!

As a conclusion I will paste what "boyonahill" wrote: "For that money I'd go for a NU1".
I couldn't agree more with him.


Edited by Wess. Chr. K. (02/27/13 08:57 PM)
_________________________
Best regards,
Wess

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#2040417 - 02/27/13 10:10 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Wess. Chr. K.]
boyonahill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 90
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Wess. Chr. K.
...
Talking about the price: CPL 480 (PE) in Germany could be found for ca. €4670 and NU1 €4560 (inc.19% VAT).
The action and sound quality of NU1 is much better... Just try it. It has no any gadgets and extra presets, just two loudspeakers, but again IMO that is a DP piano!

As a conclusion I will paste what "boyonahill" wrote: "For that money I'd go for a NU1".
I couldn't agree more with him.


Why are those two so similar in price?
_________________________
Current: Casio SA-46 + looking for a nice electronic piano
Sold: Yamaha M5J Walnut
Playing ability: Absolute Beginner(s)

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#2040532 - 02/28/13 03:35 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Macy]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Speaking of assembly, don't the first set of hands/arms appear to be backwards, and shouldn't that person* be facing the other direction?

Look at the illustrations on the 2nd page:

http://imgur.com/a/BqhMM

*Extra note:

Unless it's a four-armed monster! shocked

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#2040549 - 02/28/13 05:29 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
I find it quite unbelievable that I'm supposed to assemble a $5000 piano. For that price, I'd expect two techs to assemble it for me while other two people would tend to my comfort throughout.
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2040553 - 02/28/13 05:48 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Clayman]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
@Clayman,

Yes, you are right, as I am just poking a little fun at that illustration in the manual which is obviously an error. And, I would certainly have the store/dealer assemble the digital before delivering it.

It is interesting to note that Casio Celviano AP-620 requires the customer to assemble it from the box. And, that's a very heavy one, too!

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#2040558 - 02/28/13 06:02 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 451
Loc: Europe
The delivery and mounting is simply a service from the store where you buy your item, and not a thing the manufacturer serves you with.
Just buy at a store where they give you this service, if you want it, that´s all.

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#2040567 - 02/28/13 06:35 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2333
Loc: UK
Since it seems you will buy from a store who will assemble it for you, I recommend playing it before purchase. (Recommend this anyway).

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#2040570 - 02/28/13 06:47 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9019
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: pv88
I am just poking a little fun at that illustration in the manual which is obviously an error.


It looks fine to me - two people facing each other, holding the piano.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2040574 - 02/28/13 06:57 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Kawai James]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
James,

Actually no, the hands need to be reversed to be correct.

Check out the first set of hands on the back of the console as it appears they would have to be arms reaching directly down over the top of the piano from the front in order to grab it that way. Wrong orientation for the thumbs on those hands.

Look at the thumbs of each hand as they are facing inwards towards one another. Someone holding the piano from the back side of the console would have their thumbs facing outward towards each end of the console.

Hence, a four-armed alien creature must be lowering the console section.

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#2040582 - 02/28/13 07:08 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9019
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Again, it looks fine to me... however, it's perhaps worth nothing that my thumbs were chopped-off in a food processor accident a few years ago, and may have been re-attached incorrectly.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2040590 - 02/28/13 07:31 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Hookxs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 247
Loc: Czech Republic
pv88 - you are just funnily disoriented:-)

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#2040601 - 02/28/13 07:51 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Hookxs]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Why would someone standing in front of the console reach all the way over it to hold the console? Or, try holding the back of the console in reality with the thumbs of both hands facing inwards towards one another? As you would be using the backs of your hands and you cannot lift anything that way.

The illustration shows thumbs facing inwards and not outwards. And, are those the arms with the two hands supposed to be for the guy standing in front of the console, no, as the thumbs are incorrectly reversed in the drawing.

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#2040605 - 02/28/13 07:58 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9019
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Two people holding a box, one at either end:



James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2040612 - 02/28/13 08:08 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Kawai James]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Absolutely correct anatomy in your photo, with the thumbs of each hand facing outward from one another.

However, the illustration has the thumbs of each hand facing inward towards one another.

That cannot be physically correct, unless the person holding it is reaching way over the top of the console while standing in front of it!

Thumbs on each hand need to be reversed to the other side of the hand.

Or, maybe it's just an illusion drawn by M.C. Escher?

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#2040615 - 02/28/13 08:17 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Kumi_27 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 29
Loc: TG, Poland
pv88, everything is correct.



Thumbs marked with red lines smile
_________________________
Michael / GEM RP90

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#2040618 - 02/28/13 08:20 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
Just lousy copywork on the part of graphic artist, d00ds. smile
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2040620 - 02/28/13 08:22 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Kumi_27]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
If person "A" is standing behind the piano, his/her thumbs would have to be facing outwards to hold the bottom of the console:

Yes, or, no?

Extra note:

You have correctly marked the thumbs of each hand, I see.

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#2040623 - 02/28/13 08:24 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Kumi_27 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 29
Loc: TG, Poland
But both persons are standing on the sides and this is the source of the whole misunderstanding grin
Left and right, not front and back.
_________________________
Michael / GEM RP90

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#2040627 - 02/28/13 08:31 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Kumi_27]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Aha, it does appear as if you are right, depending on how you view it.

The illustration intends to indicate that each person is holding the console from the sides and not the front and back.

It's all about one's perspective then, isn't it?

Thanks for the clarification.

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#2040633 - 02/28/13 08:37 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9019
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: pv88
The illustration intends to indicate that each person is holding the console from the sides and not the front and back.


Correct, just like in the photo I posted above.

Originally Posted By: pv88
It's all about perspective then, isn't it?


Indeed, it is all about one's sense of perspective...

_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2040637 - 02/28/13 08:50 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Kawai James]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
And, here is a different bit of perspective:



Now, why am I not getting anywhere?

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#2040753 - 02/28/13 12:44 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3799
Loc: North Carolina
It seems Piano World has become Anatomy World. smile

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#2041017 - 02/28/13 08:27 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Wess. Chr. K.]
boyonahill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 90
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Wess. Chr. K.
...
As a conclusion I will paste what "boyonahill" wrote: "For that money I'd go for a NU1".
I couldn't agree more with him.




I took a quick read through the NU1 brochure,

http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=sv&site=se.yamaha.com&asset_id=53677

and I see that the NU1 has the new CFX samples!

So CLP 480 VS NU1

NU1
CFX samples
a "real" piano keyboard action
5 years warranty (2 standard + 3 extra years, an Yamaha campaign, at least where I live, right now)

CLP 480
more sounds
more amplifiers
more speakers
_________________________
Current: Casio SA-46 + looking for a nice electronic piano
Sold: Yamaha M5J Walnut
Playing ability: Absolute Beginner(s)

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#2041023 - 02/28/13 08:47 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
boyonahill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 90
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: pv88
And, here is a different bit of perspective:



Now, why am I not getting anywhere?


Allow me to continue on that thought and add a musical touch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del,_Escher,_Bach
_________________________
Current: Casio SA-46 + looking for a nice electronic piano
Sold: Yamaha M5J Walnut
Playing ability: Absolute Beginner(s)

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#2111910 - 07/03/13 12:36 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Update:

Have decided to put an order in for the flagship Clavinova CLP-480 as I have found that the Kawai CA95 has very metallic/raspy/fuzzy piano presets, so much so that it becomes somewhat grating to the senses after a while. Will be trading in the CA95 for the CLP-480. Please note that I have tinnitus (or, ringing in the ears) which might be contributing to this odd anomaly. Others here who have bought the CA95 have not been reporting this overly metallic/raspy/fuzzy sound as I am perceiving it.

The CLP-990M that I now own (i.e., 12 year old model) has a very nice and clear "Grand Piano 1" sound with none of the fuzzy resonance of the CA95. It stands to reason that the CLP-480 will have equally good piano sounds with decent projection from a 200-watt setup with "GP Soundboard Speakers."

It may be interesting to note that I do not perceive any of the Roland V-Piano presets to be overly metallic and fuzzy (not clear). Only the CA95 has piano sounds I like the least of the three flagship DP's that I own. I happen to like the "Grand Feel" action in the CA95 but not the quality of the piano tones.

Anyone that owns a Clavinova CLP (400 series) - what do you think?

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#2111926 - 07/03/13 01:16 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
Another episode in pv88's never-ending quest for the perfect digital piano? smile Well, good luck then.

A word of warning though -- afaik the CLP-480 does not have 88 key sampling. Just so you know.

On a side note -- yesterday when I came back from my teacher and tried to play the stuff I had started learning, I noticed something like a vibrato effect in my headphones but only sometimes and only when certain key combinations were pressed. Maybe it was the sound mixing or something, but nothing serious and I'm certainly not going to send my CA-95 back. :p
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2111937 - 07/03/13 01:55 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
pv88, I have read your post, here:

Have decided to put an order in for the flagship Clavinova CLP-480 as I have found that the Kawai CA95 has very metallic/raspy/fuzzy piano presets, so much so that it becomes somewhat grating to the senses after a while. Will be trading in the CA95 for the CLP-480. Please note that I have tinnitus (or, ringing in the ears) which might be contributing to this odd anomaly. Others here who have bought the CA95 have not been reporting this overly metallic/raspy/fuzzy sound as I am perceiving it.

The CLP-990M that I now own (i.e., 12 year old model) has a very nice and clear "Grand Piano 1" sound with none of the fuzzy resonance of the CA95. It stands to reason that the CLP-480 will have equally good piano sounds with decent projection from a 200-watt setup with "GP Soundboard Speakers."

It may be interesting to note that I do not perceive any of the Roland V-Piano presets to be overly metallic and fuzzy (not clear). Only the CA95 has piano sounds I like the least of the three flagship DP's that I own. I happen to like the "Grand Feel" action in the CA95 but not the quality of the piano tones.

Anyone that owns a Clavinova CLP (400 series) - what do you think?

______________________________________________

What do I think? Perspective:

I have a CLP - 50 Yam Clavinova from the 1980s as I recall, huge speakers, great to play. then I got an acoustic which was cool and is cool and I got a cheap yam P95 board - all good and enjoy them.

I saw in the local paper that there was a piano for people to play where it was a piano that was going to the city dump and was brought into shape and chained to a city bench to be played. (called streetpiano88 started in England) So I got up one morning and found the piano and removed the rain cover and saw it was a piano that was not a upright that would be at shoulder height but was waist level - so squished and I don't know what you would call that type of piano. Most of the keys were chipped, and extremely yellow and I don't know why - like the piano was a smoker because it was the yellow that smokers fingers have. Keys were fine to play, the piano was fine to play, but the keys have a loose quality to them, but I would be very proud to have that piano if that was the only piano I could afford, so while "tons" of posts are all about sound and quality and action and all the technical stuff - in the end for me just being able to place my hands on the keys and play the little tunes I have learned is simply awesome.


Edited by Michael_99 (07/03/13 01:58 AM)

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#2111940 - 07/03/13 02:22 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9019
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Richard, I'm sorry to read that your tinnitus has affected your enjoyment of the CA95.

May I wish all the best with the CLP-480.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2111950 - 07/03/13 02:43 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Kawai James]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
James,

Thanks for your reply.

As I am still not for certain if the tinnitus is the underlying cause of hearing the piano sounds as "fuzzy" since my other digitals do not sound like this. I like everything about the CA95 except for the perceived quality of the sounds.

The CLP-990M and Roland V-Piano are certainly free of this fuzziness and even the Kawai EP3 (which I have kept) is okay. The EP3 does not sound at all like the CA95 as it has the older "Harmonic Imaging" samples.

I do enjoy the clear piano sound in the CLP-990M so it stands to reason that the CLP-480 will be the best choice in replacing the CA95.

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#2111955 - 07/03/13 03:01 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9019
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Richard, my personal recommendation would be to skip the CLP-480 and go straight for an AvantGrand N1.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2111965 - 07/03/13 03:29 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Kawai James]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
I already considered an AvantGrand N1 previously however the footprint is still too big for my current space as the digital I swap out for the CA95 needs to be almost exactly the same size as an upright console model. The measurements of the N1 are larger than what I have space for so the CLP-480 is the best choice. Also, the N1 is not the "flagship" model in the AvantGrand series, the "N3" is. I am only collecting digitals denoted by flagship designation, presently. As I currently have the Roland V-Piano, the CLP-990M, and, then the CLP-480.

And, other than having flagship status the most important attribute of a digital piano are the piano sounds (with action being a close 2nd) as I like the quality of the Clavinova's the best and they are crystal clear with very good clarity.

Also, I would like to retain at least one digital (CLP-480) that has steel string guitar sounds since I play a fair amount of classical guitar pieces and transcriptions at the piano. The AvantGrands do not have any guitar presets.

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#2111982 - 07/03/13 04:10 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9019
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Okay, I understand.

As I say, best of luck with the Clavinova.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2111992 - 07/03/13 05:07 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Clayman]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: Clayman
A word of warning though -- afaik the CLP-480 does not have 88 key sampling. Just so you know.


It is interesting that you mention the CLP-480 does not have 88 key sampling although the CLP-990/990M, does. 88 separate samples for each key, 192 note polyphony, 8-step (not 4) weighted hammer action, solid spruce wood keys, and, escapement simulation where you can trigger a soft sound from the escapement point. These are pretty impressive features for a 12 year old model.

Also, I have found a photo of a partial wooden key from a more recent model (CP1, in the original file name) however, it only has strips of wood over a plastic key shell which is not a solid wood key:

http://imgur.com/DUcxfTi

There is no question of solid wood in the CLP-990's keys:

http://imgur.com/fXmL0gQ

Can we then assume that the later Clavinova models (including the CLP-480) are like the CP1 and don't have solid wood keys?

Also, no mention of any escapement simulation in the CLP-480.

The CLP-990 has some features that the CLP-480 does not.

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#2112003 - 07/03/13 05:48 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
There's no escapement/let-off (aka the click at the bottom of a white key's trajectory) on any CLP piano.

It's also a known fact that the "wooden" keys in the CLP pianos are not really made of wood, there's only a thin bar at the sides of the white keys, the black ones are completely plastic.

It's funny that the current top-of-the-line CLP model does not have features the model from 12 years ago had.


Edited by Clayman (07/03/13 05:55 AM)
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2112116 - 07/03/13 10:49 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Daniel Corban Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/13
Posts: 215
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: pv88
I have found that the Kawai CA95 has very metallic/raspy/fuzzy piano presets, so much so that it becomes somewhat grating to the senses after a while. Will be trading in the CA95 for the CLP-480. Please note that I have tinnitus (or, ringing in the ears) which might be contributing to this odd anomaly. Others here who have bought the CA95 have not been reporting this overly metallic/raspy/fuzzy sound as I am perceiving it.


You are not alone. Simone Dinnerstein, a concert pianist, described the CA95 as sounding "brittle" and "nasal". In the same video, she says the CLP-480 is "excellent", but complains that the keys feel stiff, which I suspect everyone would agree is a downside to the Yamaha GH keyboard.

I'm sure you have read my experiences with my CLP-440. I initially had some doubts regarding the sound, but after extensively testing other brands as well as pianos up to the Yamaha N2, I realize any tone oddities I hear are simply the result of piping reasonably accurate piano tones directly to my ear via headphones. Through external speakers, the pianos sound as expected.

I am curious why you chose the 480? Did you need the hojillion other tones and functions? Did you want the extreme speaker configuration? Otherwise, the piano is virtually the same as the 440 and 470, which cost considerably less.

The wooden keys are not simply strips of wood along the side. It is, from what I have seen in photos and described in words, a solid piece of wood that covers the top, from one side to the other. It does have a plastic core and the action is identical to the all-plastic GH3. I cannot see how this would have any affect on the feel, since the moving parts are identical. The only thing I noticed when playing, is that the keys thump a little louder when they hit the key bed.

Video source here
_________________________
Playing: Yamaha CLP-440

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#2112177 - 07/03/13 12:22 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 380
Loc: Poland
pv88,
How do you find the NW3 action vs PHAIII and GF?"And why did you bought Yahama instead of ROland HP507?

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#2112301 - 07/03/13 04:30 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
As I said/posted before, the CLP-470 was the runner-up in my decision process. The CLP-480 would be nice but spending ~$5000 on the first piano for a starting player just seemed too much. The CA-95 was already somewhat beyond the price margin I originally did not want to cross but I fell in love with its tone and the other features so I bootstrapped and kept saving up for a few more months.

It's quite funny because when I decided to buy a piano, I aimed at a Kurzweil MP10, which costs a third of the price of the CA-95. This thought always puts a smile on my face. smile
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2112341 - 07/03/13 06:02 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Clayman]
Daniel Corban Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/13
Posts: 215
Loc: Canada
Personally, I would have bought the 470 if the price difference was $100-200. It's ridiculous that they are charging $700 more for something that, in theory, should have zero effect on the feel. Alternatively, if the 470 had the speaker system of the 480, I would have splurged.

The 480 is insanely priced. For just a bit more, I could buy the N1. For $1000 less, I could get the NU1.
_________________________
Playing: Yamaha CLP-440

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#2112387 - 07/03/13 07:15 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3799
Loc: North Carolina
And for several thousand less you could get a whole range of pianos that sound just as good.

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#2112390 - 07/03/13 07:16 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Daniel Corban]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
To everyone above:

@MacMacMac,

It is absolutely true that you don't need to spend a lot of money in which to get a very decent DP as another one that I almost considered getting as a primary piano (before the V-Piano) was:

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/music-production/stagepianos/cp/cp300/

For those not aware of the specs on this model it has two upward facing speakers (of 30 watts per side - 60 total) which makes this an excellent stage piano in the $2K price range. It has very good piano sounds on board that are projected with more than enough power.

It is just my personal and subjective opinion although I am now sure that I would have liked the CP300 over the V-Piano as for the basic quality of the piano sounds. Clear and piano-like, not electronic and artificial.

@Daniel Corban,

Yes, the CLP-480 is quite expensive although I will be getting a very nice discount towards the purchase with the trade-in of my Kawai CA95. I essentially made the sale today over the phone with my local store as they will assemble everything before delivery as well. Will take a couple of weeks before one arrives.

As for choosing the CLP-480 over the other models is on account of having the flagship model with a ton of features and also the most powerful speaker system with the extra "GP Soundboard Speakers." I tend to prefer listening to my playing via the speakers versus headphones although I make use of headphones when recording. Looks like the CLP-480 has the highest rated output of any upright/console style digital with 200 total watts. The CLP-990M that I have has only 120 watts and the speakers are in the front of the topmost portion of the cabinet facing the player which sound quite excellent, overall.

In the end I will own two Clavinova's and the Roland V-Piano along with the smaller and portable Kawai EP3 which does not have the raspy/fuzzy sounds like the CA95. If it wasn't for the grating unpleasant tones of the piano presets in the CA95 then I probably would have kept it.

@Clayman,

I am glad to hear that you are liking your CA95 as I have enjoyed mine to some extent as long as I have had it although since I continue to hear and perceive these rather annoying raspy/fuzzy metallic tones in all of the piano presets I will have to exchange it for the CLP-480 which I know will not do this. It seems unfortunate to switch as the CA95 has an excellent action however there is no amount of tweaking I can do within the settings to improve upon the samples. They are very metallic to begin with and I am thinking that my sensitive hearing (including having tinnitus) may be a factor in why I hear these piano samples the way I do.

@kapelli,

Just to clarify there is no reason for me to consider a Roland HP507 (which is a very nice piano by the way) since I already own the V-Piano and will not be trading it in towards anything else.

As for actions:

Also, I have found that my favorite action so far is in the Kawai CA95 ("Grand Feel") as for the responsive feel of the keys which bottom out very nicely with decent cushioning and it has the quietest action of any I have played.

The Roland V-Piano has the lightest feeling and quickest action of any I have played and is the best for fast repetitions and scale work. The only negative to the PHAIII action would be the very hard bottoming out.

The CLP-990M (12 years old) has a very good action which is heavier in feel than the CA95 although it fares just a little better than the V-Piano as for bottoming out and the keys do make a little noise.

Extra note:

As of today (7-3-13) I have placed an order for the CLP-480.

Hope that everyone has a very nice "Fourth (4th) of July!"
(Or, "Independence Day" - here in the US.)

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#2112426 - 07/03/13 08:32 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Michael_99]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
@Michael_99,

Please do enjoy whatever digital it is you are able to afford as the average consumer doesn't have the resource in which to buy an AvantGrand, Roland V-Piano Grand, or, an acoustic grand piano. Even so, there are many other choices.

As of currently my preference is for the sounds that are in the CLP-990M.
(And, it is certainly not the most expensive digital out there.)

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#2112475 - 07/03/13 10:38 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3799
Loc: North Carolina
pv: Couldn't you afford the AG? Or an acoustic?
The cost of the pianos you've already bought and rejected would have paid for either!

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#2112531 - 07/04/13 12:38 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
pv88, I have read your post, here:

Please do enjoy whatever digital it is you are able to afford as the average consumer doesn't have the resource in which to buy an AvantGrand, Roland V-Piano Grand, or, an acoustic grand piano. Even so, there are many other choices.

As of currently my preference is for the sounds that are in the CLP-990M.
(And, it is certainly not the most expensive digital out there.)

_______________
Well, I don't know what an AvantGrand is or a V-Piano Grand is. What is special about them?

Well, as I said, the CLP-50 was made probably 20 years ago and I paid 3,000, as I remember. A year ago I bought a Yam P95 because I was very weak and need a piano that I could play on the floor supporting the piano on concrete blocks and sliding underneath the P95 piano and playing it tilted while lying on my back.

All digitals are slightly different in touch as I touch them in the store. I love the digital and I play it. It was 600 dollars. I don't know why anyone needs a different digital piano to learn and play the piano. There is a difference from an acoustic because it has strings and a digital doesn't. That will always be the difference in the same way that an acoustic weighs a "ton" and will always weigh a ton and a digital will probably get lighter because like computers, the industry will gradually remove the speakers and sell them separately, and reduce the size of the amp and sell that as an option and the piano will be very light because it will be like a computer, just keyboard of keys and everything else is a component.

I guess I don't understand why one digital is that much different than any other in terms of playing the piano - leaving aside the bells and whitsles.

My digitals are 20 years apart, so size and cost, otherwise a digital piano is a digital piano of 88 keys. I can't see any difference worth any more or much money.

Maybe somebody could explain what I can't see or hear in a word or two. I bought a Yam because I recognize the name re motorcycles, amps, etc. Casio I only know as watches from a long time ago, so I personally didn't want the name at any cost, but that is just me.

I mean cars are all different and I understand - and I only owned a pickup, but digital pianos are digital pianos of 88 weighted keys.

And if you tell me, I will go to the piano stores and ask to play them so I can see how different they are.

cheers,


Edited by Michael_99 (07/04/13 12:46 AM)

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#2112552 - 07/04/13 01:56 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: MacMacMac]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
@MacMacMac,

I am currently only interested in the smaller flagship upright styled digitals and stage pianos since they take up the least amount of space and I am at my limit with three flagship digitals at this time. I can interchange one of them at a time (the one which is least desirable or if a new model should arrive) as the current setup will soon be:

1) Roland V-Piano
2) CLP-990M
3) CLP-480R ... [Kawai CA95 trade-in]*
4) Kawai EP3

*Extra note:

Only one of the above three flagships will be considered for either trade-in towards a new model or to exchange for something else. As for now I am not partial to the quality of the piano sounds in the CA95 as it is being exchanged for a new CLP-480R (rosewood finish). The reason for having two flagship Clavinova's is very simple as the CLP-990M has the best piano sound of any digital I have played on to date and the new CLP-480 will be equally good.

The fourth digital I have (Kawai EP3) will be kept as it is a decent portable keyboard (that I could easily move into an underground shelter if necessary) with good sounds and action although since it is not a flagship model I don't count it as one of the main "three."

Please note that I am not interested in buying an acoustic as they require a lot of extra maintenance and tunings as I am buying digitals that don't need any service. All of the upright models have the same size and dimensions as I can easily swap one for another.

I can always own several digitals this way and in the event that anything goes wrong with one of them there is always another one to play, or, I can turn it in for perhaps a new model if one should appear.

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#2112597 - 07/04/13 04:12 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: pv88
It is just my personal and subjective opinion although I am now sure that I would have liked the CP300....


Yes, it is good enough for The Rolling Stones. I saw their keyboard man getting a very decent rock piano sound out of one at Glastonbury the other night - so you'd have been in good company!

Good luck with the CLP-480 Richard.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2112698 - 07/04/13 09:25 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Daniel Corban Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/13
Posts: 215
Loc: Canada
I used to think that acoustics were expensive and a hassle to maintain. As I get better at playing, my technical and emotional demands increase. The thought of paying a couple hundred a year in tech work now seems trivial. My limitation is floor space, otherwise, I think I would have a baby grand by now instead of tolerating digital pianos.
_________________________
Playing: Yamaha CLP-440

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#2115037 - 07/09/13 06:12 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Clayman]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: Clayman
1) There's no escapement/let-off (aka the click at the bottom of a white key's trajectory) on any CLP piano.

2) It's also a known fact that the "wooden" keys in the CLP pianos are not really made of wood, there's only a thin bar at the sides of the white keys, the black ones are completely plastic.


CLP-990:

1) The CLP-990 does have escapement simulation and not only does it have the subtle click-feel towards the bottom of the keystroke but you also can sound a soft tone from the escapement point just like on a grand piano. Here's a video which demonstrates it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D62G49_Rws

2) In the photos below you can see that both the white and black keys are made from solid wood.

White key:

http://imgur.com/bVqIT5R

Black key:

http://imgur.com/1Ar7gRe

So, with the CLP-990 you have:

1) Escapement simulation with the click feel as one can play "off of the jack" (or, softly) from the escapement point.

2) Solid wood keys for all 88 notes both white and black.

3) 88-key sampling with 5 layer samples.

4) 8-step graded hammer action.

I do count four features that the CLP-480 does not have!

Will be very interesting to compare the 480 to the 990.
(After the 480 has arrived and it's now on order.)

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#2115059 - 07/09/13 07:44 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
I think I'm right in saying the CLP-480 has continuous grading (each key is graded differently) to simulate the very slight difference in the size/weight of hammers in an acoustic as you go along the keyboard. So in this respect the CLP-480 is superior (in theory!).
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2115095 - 07/09/13 09:57 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: EssBrace]
Daniel Corban Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/13
Posts: 215
Loc: Canada
The CLP470 has an identical keyboard and pedal. The difference lies in the amp and speaker system, as well as general MIDI support and a ridiculous number of sound banks.
_________________________
Playing: Yamaha CLP-440

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#2115102 - 07/09/13 10:17 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Daniel Corban]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Daniel Corban
The CLP470 has an identical keyboard and pedal.


Yes I know that. I meant that feature is superior to the CLP-990, not superior to everything! Do not under-estimate the sound system on the CLP-480 - it will blow any other standard range console DP into the weeds. Whether the additional expense is worth it is a judgement for each individual buyer of course.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2115255 - 07/09/13 05:05 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: EssBrace]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Do not under-estimate the sound system on the CLP-480 - it will blow any other standard range console DP into the weeds. Whether the additional expense is worth it is a judgement for each individual buyer of course.


Steve,

It is my subjective view that one really needs at least a 100+ watt speaker system to do a digital justice. This means that a fair amount of power is needed to reproduce the bass range with solid resonance you can feel and to bring out the treble range with distinct clarity and realism.

This is certainly one of the primary reasons I am buying the CLP-480 as it has the most powerful speaker system of any console/upright digital currently available. Here are the total speaker wattage specs for all of the top flagship models:

1) 20 watts: Williams Overture
2) 50 watts: Kurzweil MP20
3) 60 watts: Casio AP-650
4) 135 watts: Kawai CA95
5) 135 watts: Kawai CS10
6) 140 watts: Kurzweil CUP2
7) 140 watts: Roland HP-507
8) 160 watts: Roland LX-15
9) 160 watts: Yamaha NU1

The CLP-480 is rated at 200 watts which can only be bettered by going to an AvantGrand which is not a console/upright model.

The CLP-990M that I have has 120 watts (60 watts per side in the upper front facing cabinet) which is truly more than sufficient.*

*Extra note:

Front facing speakers are quite rare in a digital and that is why the CLP-990M sounds very powerful with less volume being required.

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#2115325 - 07/09/13 08:11 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3799
Loc: North Carolina
Your understanding is not correct.

Why? Among other things:
Amplifier power ratings are inconsistent.
Speaker efficiencies vary tremendously.

You can blow out the windows with a 10 watt amp and the right speakers.

Specs are often just fairy tales disguised as science.

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#2115349 - 07/09/13 08:58 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
toddy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1674
Loc: Portugal
macmacmac makes a good point, which I'd illustrate with this example:

i compared a clavinova cdp 220, which is rated 40* watts against a roland hp302, rated 24* watts.

the louder, more powerful sounding piano, on full volume, was the hp302. but if you were to go on wattage ratings alone, it should have been 40 percent quieter and 40 percent less powerful. of course, this is twaddle.

*this is presuming rms ratings, which i think we can.

(excuse my capital letters - they're not working)


Edited by toddy (07/09/13 08:58 PM)
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2115396 - 07/09/13 10:28 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: MacMacMac]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
Amplifier power ratings are inconsistent.
Speaker efficiencies vary tremendously.

You can blow out the windows with a 10 watt amp and the right speakers.

Specs are often just fairy tales disguised as science.


Yes, I do agree that there are many differences between speakers regarding their efficiency and quality as these factors do not depend upon power (or, wattage) alone.

This is why (as has been mentioned before) that I actually prefer the quality of the projected sound from the the top facing speakers in the small Kawai EP3 (which I own) over the more powerful Kawai CA95.

A mere 26 watts (top facing speakers) - EP3
135 watts - (soundboard in back) - CA95

Even though the CA95 has four times the wattage of the EP3 the CA95's sounds are not as clear and defined as the EP3's sounds projected from the top of the piano. The reverb effects and 3-dimensional effect of being surrounded with sound is evident with the EP3 where it is somewhat muddled in the CA95. The crisp clarity of the sounds is there in the EP3 but I do not hear this in the CA95. This is the reason I am trading in the CA95 for a CLP-480 which has samples that have far better clarity and don't sound muddled and fuzzy. Again, this is a subjective comparison as others may not agree on this.

How can an $1,100 digital (EP3) sound better than a $4,000 CA95?

It does to me and it all has to do with the perceived quality of the projected sounds from the speakers.

Extra note:

Also, it has been said here by another forum member that their Clavinova CLP-990 sounds better to them than an AvantGrand (as it was played on in a local store) as both pianos have the same CFIIIS samples with the only difference being the power of the speaker setups and the actions.

Note that the CLP-990 has a set of four front facing speakers in the upper cabinet on either side of the music desk with 120 watts of sound whereas the AvantGrand N3 has 500 watts. So, does the N3 sound better than the CLP-990 just on account of the louder sounds due to the available power?

With the sound samples being equal the answer is ... no.

Sound is always subjective to the player's perceptions.

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#2115404 - 07/09/13 10:52 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9019
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Richard, with the greatest respect, I believe you're the only person in the world who perceives an EP3 to sound better than a CA95.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2115431 - 07/09/13 11:40 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Let me clarify by adding that I am not referring to just the quality of the samples themselves, i.e., EP3 vs. CA95, but the perceived quality of the projected sounds from the speakers which makes for an authentic 3-dimensional effect especially with the reverb settings. I still prefer the clarity of the EP3 over the CA95 due to the clear sounds with no metallic fuzziness. Like I have said before it is my own perception of the sounds as I hear them.

I can't live with the raspy/metallic and unclear tones in the CA95, hence the trade-in for a CLP-480, however, the EP3 fares much better with decent clarity as does the CLP-990M. In the end I will have the Roland V-Piano, CLP-480, and CLP-990M, along with one portable stage piano - EP3.

Also, from the above the Clavinova's will have the best sounds - the V-Piano has the best action in regards to dynamic levels and touch - and, the EP3 stands on its own with excellent speaker projection.

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#2115502 - 07/10/13 04:17 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3799
Loc: North Carolina
pv: I think we all know that you're (perhaps) the world's most prolific piano buyer. We also know that you're thrilled (initially) with a new piano purchase. But that thrill fades as you quickly become disappointed with it, and you start the quest for another piano. And the cycle repeats.

You've previously mentioned some sort of hearing problem. Perhaps that's what drives your dissatisfaction. But given your buying pattern, I find it hard to rely on your judgment as a gauge of any piano's sound quality.

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#2115515 - 07/10/13 05:32 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: MacMacMac]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
@Mac,

Looks like you've hit the nail on the head as for my quest of acquiring and trying out new things and then eventually exchanging them for something else. The truth is that there will never be just one perfect instrument you can buy that will satisfy every requirement as for tone, touch, aesthetics, etc. We live in an imperfect world, unfortunately.

As for now I plan on keeping both the V-Piano and CLP-990M (as my personal favorites) as I am only trading in the CA95 for the CLP-480 as I wasn't happy with the fuzzy piano tones. The CLP-990M was a great find as it has the best piano sound of any digital I have played to date and it will remain as a keeper due to the fact it is now a difficult to locate model.

I have no interest in splurging on an AvantGrand or an acoustic as the smaller upright digitals are easiest to manage in my current space which is only one medium sized room. I don't intend to go back to an acoustic which requires plenty of maintenance and tuning.

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#2115547 - 07/10/13 07:05 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: pv88]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
Well, what is there left to say? It's good that you understand that no piano is perfect but I still find it mind-boggling that you keep exchanging pianos like socks (well, almost). The usual modus operandi is to carefully research the current alternatives, pick one and stick with it.

How many pianos does one need? I could perfectly understand having one cabinet-style piano for home/evening playing, one slab for gigging and possibly one acoustic to play on when circumstances allow it or to finalize a performance if you're a professional player. But you have no fewer than 3 (!) top-tier digital pianos (+1 lower-end, the EP3), with each of the three being predominant in a certain area (touch, tone, speaker power etc.). Collecting pianos is an expensive hobby, I imagine.

How often do you actually play all of them?
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2115549 - 07/10/13 07:18 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Clayman]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
If I had more space to spare then perhaps I could add a few more digitals to the collection although the three flagships I have keep me busy enough. I am primarily concerned with the quality of the piano sounds in the best digitals available and not how many I own.

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#2115565 - 07/10/13 08:20 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Clayman]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3546
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Clayman
Well, what is there left to say? It's good that you understand that no piano is perfect but I still find it mind-boggling that you keep exchanging pianos like socks (well, almost). The usual modus operandi is to carefully research the current alternatives, pick one and stick with it.

How many pianos does one need? I could perfectly understand having one cabinet-style piano for home/evening playing, one slab for gigging and possibly one acoustic to play on when circumstances allow it or to finalize a performance if you're a professional player. But you have no fewer than 3 (!) top-tier digital pianos (+1 lower-end, the EP3), with each of the three being predominant in a certain area (touch, tone, speaker power etc.). Collecting pianos is an expensive hobby, I imagine.

How often do you actually play all of them?


On the other hand, it's his money, his hobby and his prerogative. Why not own lots of DPs? He's stimulating the US economy at the very least!

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#2115694 - 07/10/13 02:26 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: ando]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
Yeah, I guess I'll have to leave it at that. After all, it's not written anywhere that I must understand everything.
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2115706 - 07/10/13 02:49 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Clayman]
Daniel Corban Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/13
Posts: 215
Loc: Canada
I am reminded of discussions related to my other hobby: video games. There are people who strive to collect a complete set of all published games for a system. This can number over 1000 unique games, many of which are not worth the time to play, let alone purchase. These people undoubtedly do not play every game, or even a majority of them. Some collectors admit to not playing any of them at all!

I understand why he owns some of those pianos, but the others puzzle me. The CLP-990 was a novelty purchase that turned out to be superior in many ways to current offerings. The V-Piano is supposedly the end-all to realistic sound, if you believe what certain people evangelize here. So why have the other two? If what he says about the 990 is true, and what Roland fans speak of the V-Piano is true, then the other two are literally a waste of time and money.
_________________________
Playing: Yamaha CLP-440

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#2115723 - 07/10/13 03:29 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-480 [Re: Clayman]
Hookxs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 247
Loc: Czech Republic
Originally Posted By: Clayman
How many pianos does one need?


Seemingly trivial question and yet my girlfriend and I fail to reach an agreement:-) I, for one, am starting to think that I would be 99% satisfied with an acoustic (good upright) for "regular" playing and a stage DP for silent practice and recording (ideally combined with a software library). Sadly it's a rather expansive setup, yet probably still way cheaper than for example AvantGrands.


Edited by Hookxs (07/10/13 03:30 PM)

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