Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
142 registered (anotherscott, allakart, 36251, accordeur, 39 invisible), 1839 Guests and 16 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Page 3 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#2038999 - 02/25/13 12:41 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: Okanagan Musician]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 453
Loc: Europe
My No.1 question as an adult beginner is:
How can I enjoy my own playing and relax by playing piano, instead of getting tense in my head because of the concentration on playing correctly (applying techniques) and expressively (listening to myself) at the same time?

My No.2 question as an adult beginner is:
How do I prevent bad habbits, if I can only afford to have a teacher supervising me fortnightly or monthly, and will I ever have a chance to get rid of my bad habbits which I already adopted as a child?

Any recommendation (also to proper literature on this topics) is wellcome!
_________________________
learning Piano on my Roland HP-505
before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

Top
(ads P/S)

Petrof Pianos

#2039060 - 02/25/13 02:33 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: Okanagan Musician]
ju5t1n-h Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 179
Loc: Vancouver, British Columbia
I would say my problem is that I always want to try and play pieces that are out of my reach! Although I stick with my RCM exam syllabus, I frequently try and play a lot harder pieces and sometimes get disheartened on how long it's going to take to be able to get there!
_________________________
Essex EUP-123S


Top
#2039092 - 02/25/13 03:07 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: Okanagan Musician]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2472
Loc: France
Good evening. For my part I agree strongly with btb who earlier on in the thread singled out reading as the outstanding difficulty for adults trying to learn the piano or any instrument for the first time. One can make great progress with bad habits, poor technique, but one can't progress without achieving a certain ease reading a score. Reading is the key that opens all of the doors.

Top
#2039125 - 02/25/13 03:48 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: Okanagan Musician]
fanatik22 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 64
Hello all!

Very much beginner here and interesting to see this thread posted with common problems seen among us.

My question to you; how do we attempt to learn PROPER technique and help facilitate this with exercises and/or drills?

I'll offer some of my own issues/experiences on this because this is a very personal question and might be for others as well.

I attempted to learn piano playing a couple of years ago and like most I started with the Alfreds' series that was referred by many posters on this site, with no teacher mind you. Got up to book 2 and noticed that I was having crazy wrist pains (which is just one of the pains I was experiencing) and decided that my technique was bad and needed a teacher. Well, I've gone with several teachers, explained my situation, and all of the teachers seemed to look at it as a non-issue, which is very depressing because it is exactly what I sought for in a teacher and in my thinking THE MOST IMPORTANT THING A BEGINNER NEEDS TO HAVE! Concrete understanding/practice of pain-free playing! I've also deduced that my pain had nothing to do with other activities I partake in, seeing that my pain immediately disappeared after I took breaks and ultimately dropped piano playing.

Any feedback on this would be golden, because perhaps like in my case, there could be many beginner prospects who are very eager to learn and are dedicated in doing so but hit an actual physical roadblock, leading to dismissing the journey altogether.

Top
#2039193 - 02/25/13 05:52 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: fanatik22]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2472
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: fanatik22
what I sought for in a teacher and in my thinking THE MOST IMPORTANT THING A BEGINNER NEEDS TO HAVE! Concrete understanding/practice of pain-free playing!


Could it be that you are mistaken, that that is not what a beginner needs to have.

Top
#2039199 - 02/25/13 06:13 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: landorrano]
fanatik22 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 64
I'm only expressing my opinions and my experience alone but the fact that this forum is riddled day in and day out with beginners mentioning about pain with playing (back pain, wrist pain, etc.) makes me think that this is a very fundamental step we need to learn first. In my case I was attempting to run first without learning how to walk.

Of course a good teacher is the solution but the reason I posted my question is because I'm open to all ideas on the matter. I'm not by any means dismissing my past teachers as bad teachers, it's just that the pain was still present with the time I was with them. It's very disappointing and depressed me to the point of thinking that piano playing is not for me because of these hurdles.

Top
#2039241 - 02/25/13 07:25 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: fanatik22]
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5638
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
fanatik22 - I think you are right, it's extremely important. As far as I can tell pain usually has to do with tension/tenseness. As much as we might think we are playing relaxed, we often are so used to it in ourselves, whether at work, or driving in traffic, or whatever, that we don't really know. And sometimes, even if the pain is in the hands, the tenseness is in the shoulders, or the back, or the neck.

Someone once posted a whole series of videos that deal with this - posture, relaxation, etc. I don't have them bookmarked but maybe s/he'll read this and re-post. But if not, it would be worth it to you to start a thread looking for those videos. I think they'd help a lot.

And I think you are right, it is fundamental for beginners. Many ABFers, as you have noticed, deal with it. Good point.

Cathy
_________________________

Top
#2039243 - 02/25/13 07:28 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: landorrano]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11801
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: landorrano
Originally Posted By: fanatik22
what I sought for in a teacher and in my thinking THE MOST IMPORTANT THING A BEGINNER NEEDS TO HAVE! Concrete understanding/practice of pain-free playing!


Could it be that you are mistaken, that that is not what a beginner needs to have.


Could it be that fanatik22 is not mistaken, and that these are things that beginner needs to have?

Top
#2039259 - 02/25/13 08:00 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: landorrano]
Sand Tiger Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 1085
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: landorrano
Good evening. For my part I agree strongly with btb who earlier on in the thread singled out reading as the outstanding difficulty for adults trying to learn the piano or any instrument for the first time. One can make great progress with bad habits, poor technique, but one can't progress without achieving a certain ease reading a score. Reading is the key that opens all of the doors.



That is just too funny. If it were true, great legends such as Stevie Wonder or Ray Charles should give up their pianos. They probably never should have started, being blind and all, and unwilling to do braille sheet music.

Let's take the extreme case, a sight reading savant, can read anything, and play it, but has poor dynamics, terrible phrasing. Let's even say the phrasing is accurate, but as robotic as a MIDI computer track. There isn't an audience in the world that would pay money to listen to him/her play. Now the opposite extreme, someone that can learn by ear at a high level, can't sight read worth a thing, perhaps even blind, but has world class expression, fantastic phrasing and dynamics. Audiences flock to see this second performer.

For the average beginner, sight reading is one skill that is part of a balanced approach to learning. Too much emphasis on that one skill is not a good idea. Balance. Moderation. There is much to learn. Phrasing, dynamics, ear training, eventually improvisation and interpretation are other elements of a balanced approach.

And yes, what others have mentioned, if a person can't play without pain, they have zero chance at advancing. How can they if they can't practice at all?


_________________________
my piano uploads

Top
#2039285 - 02/25/13 08:55 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: Sand Tiger]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: Sand Tiger
Originally Posted By: landorrano
Good evening. For my part I agree strongly with btb who earlier on in the thread singled out reading as the outstanding difficulty for adults trying to learn the piano or any instrument for the first time.


That is just too funny. If it were true, great legends such as Stevie Wonder or Ray Charles should give up their pianos.


ROTFLMAO! You sure blew that one away! Congrats! grin

Originally Posted By: Sand Tiger
And yes, what others have mentioned, if a person can't play without pain, they have zero chance at advancing. How can they if they can't practice at all?


Geesh Tigger... You're batting a thousand today!

I have to agree. I find it hard to believe that people don't bother to learn the proper physiology of playing. No excuses. A teacher doesn't know. That isn't the right teacher. We recently had a very good book on this suggested in this forum. Anybody else buy it? You don't even have to buy. Your library will get it for you. No excuses! smirk
I've repeatedly suggested mobility as something to treat many problems. I failed to recognize that changing how one plays may be a key factor also.
Or is it that people just want to complain and come up with excuses to not do something? Self sabotage. Is the biggest problem....whining? cry thumb
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

Top
#2039289 - 02/25/13 09:01 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: Okanagan Musician]
fizikisto Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 638
Loc: Hernando, MS
Sand Tiger,
I agree with your points, but just to be clear, I believe that both Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder learned to read music. There is a way of notating music with braille. It's not the same thing as regular sight reading, of course, but it may have been an important part of their musical development.

Warm Regards
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800

Top
#2039298 - 02/25/13 09:19 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: Okanagan Musician]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3171
Regarding Ray Charles and reading music: Ray Charles is a Blues piano player.

Back in the time when He was coming up, there basically was no written scores of the style in which he plays. I am referring to the piano playing of Charles Brown, among others for example, which Ray Charles used as his inspiration.

I know this for a fact, because when I was learning how to play Blues, a few decades after Ray Charles learned, nothing was available. No Blues Piano books, no tapes, no DVD's, no Youtube, nothing written out, unlike Pop or show tunes or Classical which has plenty of notation. To play the Blues, you listen to others play, you internalize it, and play it.

I am not talking about Jazzy Blues/standards, which may have notation available, but rather the style of, say, the free tune in my signature at the bottom of my posts. Have a listen...its free.

BTW, This tune was not written out; In fact, it was a warm-up jam we did at the beginning of the studio session to record my cd. What you hear is just how we played it...no practice, no rehearsals, no scores, and no fixing of the take later on in the studio.

Back to Ray Charles. Later, Ray wrote (in his head) all of his later music that made him famous. Others may have scored it so they could play along with him, but he didn't need it written down.

Which is also how I and many others play Blues...never from a score...its in my head, I hear it.

Bottom line is I don't know if Ray Charles read Braille music; But reading music would not have been any help for Ray Charles to play like the Ray Charles that we know.
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

Top
#2039368 - 02/26/13 12:02 AM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: Okanagan Musician]
fizikisto Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 638
Loc: Hernando, MS
Rocket88,
From what I've read, Ray Charles mainly learned to play music at the "Florida School for the Deaf and Blind" where he was a classically trained pianist. This likely would have been where he would have learned to read Braille scores. It's not that uncommon for great blues and jazz players to initially have a foundation in classical music. I think that such a foundation would definitely have helped Ray become the Ray Charles we know. Of course, over the years that followed he built a greater house upon that foundation. You may know that Ray initially started out with a style aimed at emulating Nat King Cole, but later started to develop his own unique style, particularly through the diverse venues he played on the so called "chitlin' circuit."

I think you're right that later as he wrote/composed his own music, that it was much more improvisational and by ear. So I disagree with you only slightly on that point, in that I suspect that his classical training probably helped him. And in the end it doesn't matter, I suspect that if you were to try you could probably find lots of great pianists who couldn't read a note on a score if their life depended on it. But I do find the history of people like Mr. Charles to be fascinating.

Warm regards
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800

Top
#2039382 - 02/26/13 12:39 AM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: Peter K. Mose]
HalfStep Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/25/11
Posts: 206
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: Peter K. Mose
Originally Posted By: HalfStep


My daughter and I love our teacher but she needs to push me harder; set expectations, really. She does fine with my kid but I am a different sort of learner. However, we all have a very close personal relationship and, as an adult learner, it feels like a safe learning environment. That latter may help me long term.


A safe learning environment for you is something to treasure, Halfstep. But can you ask your teacher to try to give you some realistic expectations on a week by week basis? She might be hesitant about pushing you, but you could explain that you might thrive with such pushing.

Worth a try for both of you.


I agree! The safe learning environment is awesome. I did speak with her last week about a piece I put down too easily. I told her I need clear expectations and that I would work until I meet or exceed her demands. In retrospect, she gives my daughter lots of work but likely allows me to set my own pace as I am adult. She's a wonderful and caring teacher and I feel very comfortable... And your advice was spot on! Thanks

Top
#2039383 - 02/26/13 12:40 AM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: landorrano]
HalfStep Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/25/11
Posts: 206
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: landorrano
Originally Posted By: Peter K. Mose


A safe learning environment for you is something to treasure, Halfstep.


I second that!


Agreed!

Top
#2039422 - 02/26/13 03:42 AM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: Sand Tiger]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2472
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Sand Tiger
Originally Posted By: landorrano
Reading is the key that opens all of the doors.



That is just too funny.



OK Stevie ...

Originally Posted By: rnaple

ROTFLMAO! You sure blew that one away! Congrats! grin



... and Ray. Good luck!

Top
#2039423 - 02/26/13 03:58 AM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: Okanagan Musician]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2472
Loc: France
If you want to learn to write, to write creatively, do you sign up in a writing class and then ask the teacher as your starting point how to do so without suffering physical pain? Posture, relaxation, the "correct" way to hold your pen?

Learning to play a musical instrument is an artistic endeavor. The physical aspect is derivative of what you have to say musically.

Top
#2039615 - 02/26/13 01:00 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: landorrano]
fanatik22 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 64
I'm in no way dismissing that a beginner shouldn't learn theory, learn how to read scores, and develop the artistic aspect of learning a musical instrument instrument, it's just that in my case, i've come to the roadblock of physical limitations with my technique first. As such, pain is the result of this. All in all, I've learned not to underestimate what bad technique can do to do the body.

landorrano, you speak in terms of 100% perfect situations where any teacher can remedy any problems a beginner may have. What does this say of myself and of my past teachers? Am I considered to be a bad student? Likewise, would my past teachers considered to be bad teachers? Again, I'm speaking on behalf of my personal experience. Maybe this is what others are going through as well.

Perhaps later down the road I will experience the hardships of trying to create my own artistic sound but as of right now, in the context of what the OP is asking which is what questions/problems a beginner (such as myself) may have, proper technique and pain-free playing is a number priority and at the top of my list.

Top
#2039631 - 02/26/13 01:22 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: jotur]
fanatik22 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 64
Thank you for the recommendations jotur! I've went on sort of a mission to find any and all material in regards to pain-free playing. It's all just become very fascinating to me. I've acquired materials such as What Every Pianist needs to know about the body, the taubman tapes, and freeing the caged bird, but it is very much over my head.

It's been about a year since I've last attempted to pursue how to play. Heck, this account was made back in 2009! Unfortunately, teachers are scarce around my area but I am still very diligent in finding one and more importantly a match for me.

Top
#2039647 - 02/26/13 01:47 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: Okanagan Musician]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3183
Loc: Maine
landorrano, learning to play the piano is not only about learning to write creatively. It also includes the analogous step of learning how to write, period, which starts out with learning how to hold a pencil or pen. Hence including information about and training in how to play pain-free is appropriate in the beginning stages of learning to play the piano, rather than being only seen as a derivative remedial effort.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2039650 - 02/26/13 01:53 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: landorrano]
bolt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/23/09
Posts: 194
Originally Posted By: landorrano
If you want to learn to write, to write creatively, do you sign up in a writing class and then ask the teacher as your starting point how to do so without suffering physical pain? Posture, relaxation, the "correct" way to hold your pen?

Learning to play a musical instrument is an artistic endeavor. The physical aspect is derivative of what you have to say musically.


I think maybe that's not such a good analogy because in writing we are not really limited so much by our pen-holding technique as by our thoughts and emotions. Whereas in piano we are often limited more by the physical than the mental.

When I took up with a teacher the very first thing she zeroed in on was eliminating tension in my hand, my wrist, my arm, my shoulder, my body. It was the number one step to sort out. It was not my idea at all but I've come to see how important this issue is because this tension will block you.
_________________________
"There is more to this piano playing malarkey than meets the eye" - adultpianist

Top
#2039664 - 02/26/13 02:23 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: bolt]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7099
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: bolt
Whereas in piano we are often limited more by the physical than the mental.


Not directly related to the issues you are addressing but may I just beg to differ.

Piano technique is actually "mental". It's the "neural connections" that go from the mind thinking "play this note" to the execution (without interference of other muscles unrelated to the task) that goes on. That's why it can't be rushed with just sheer hours of practice.

Every movement on the piano is a learned skill. There are so many to learn and each one involves things like memorization of distances and angles, developing quickness, positioning of the whole body, balancing the weight, and controlling velocity, responding to what you hear, etc. Even playing a C scale in different registers cause a change.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

Top
#2039716 - 02/26/13 04:07 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: jazzwee]
bolt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/23/09
Posts: 194
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Originally Posted By: bolt
Whereas in piano we are often limited more by the physical than the mental.


Not directly related to the issues you are addressing but may I just beg to differ.

Piano technique is actually "mental". It's the "neural connections" that go from the mind thinking "play this note" to the execution (without interference of other muscles unrelated to the task) that goes on. That's why it can't be rushed with just sheer hours of practice.

Every movement on the piano is a learned skill. There are so many to learn and each one involves things like memorization of distances and angles, developing quickness, positioning of the whole body, balancing the weight, and controlling velocity, responding to what you hear, etc. Even playing a C scale in different registers cause a change.



Certainly I agree with what you just wrote.

Even tension itself can have mental as well as physical root causes, and we can use both mental and physical approaches to lessen it.
_________________________
"There is more to this piano playing malarkey than meets the eye" - adultpianist

Top
#2039731 - 02/26/13 04:33 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: PianoStudent88]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2472
Loc: France
Interesting points. I'd just like to respond to the following:


Originally Posted By: bolt


I think maybe that's not such a good analogy because in writing we are not really limited so much by our pen-holding technique as by our thoughts and emotions. Whereas in piano we are often limited more by the physical than the mental.


Like Jazzwee, I beg to differ. Was it Chopin who said that to every technical difficulty there is a musical solution?

The real difficulty for adult beginners is taking the measure of just how little they know about music, and so they are unable to find the musical solution.

And who was the pianist who said in response to the admirer who asked how he moves his hands so fast, "but Madame, what makes you think that I play with my hands!"

Top
#2039745 - 02/26/13 04:58 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: landorrano]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
Originally Posted By: landorrano
Like Jazzwee, I beg to differ. Was it Chopin who said that to every technical difficulty there is a musical solution?


Dunno. But he was the one who said every difficulty you duck -I believe "slur over" was his phrase - will come back to haunt you.
Originally Posted By: landorrano
And who was the pianist who said in response to the admirer who asked how he moves his hands so fast, "but Madame, what makes you think that I play with my hands!"

It was Josef Hofmann and the question actually was how did he play with such small hands.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

Top
#2039776 - 02/26/13 05:43 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: landorrano]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7099
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: landorrano

Like Jazzwee, I beg to differ. Was it Chopin who said that to every technical difficulty there is a musical solution?

The real difficulty for adult beginners is taking the measure of just how little they know about music, and so they are unable to find the musical solution.


Landorrano, I didn't get too excited with your earlier support of sight-reading being the primary issue (especially for a jazz pianist like me that doesn't rely on scores).

But I agree with this comment of yours 100%. Part of our problem is that we cannot yet "hear" the musicality issues (this varies depending on level). And if you hear the issue, you will just naturally attempt to correct it and a solution will come.

A very common example among the people here on ABF is often I will find someone attempting a piece that's beyond their level and there's rhythmic/timing issue on the fast lines. To a beginner, it may just sound like a stream of fast notes, and he may not hear the unevenness yet. That hearing skill has to be developed.

Now where I am, as a jazz player, I already am beginning to hear problems in my solos that I didn't hear before. And I'm mad at myself for not hearing it, but I guess this is a never ending process. 10 Years from now I will probably hear new things again and will be solving different issues that I can't hear now.

So developing the musicality (or hearing it), to me is the single most important issue as a beginner. But beginners don't know it yet. Every solution emanates from this.

I would bet that intelligent listening to music (with an analytical mindset) may yield as much results as practice (like a 50:50 relationship). Or as I said earlier, a relationship between ProblemIdentification:ProblemResolution.

BTW this was a more recent realization of mine as I progressed. I wish I knew this at the beginning and I could have developed even faster.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

Top
#2039792 - 02/26/13 06:24 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: Michael_99]
pckhdlr305 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 53
How to use the pedal properly smirk

Top
#2039807 - 02/26/13 07:00 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: Okanagan Musician]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4381
Loc: Jersey Shore
Currently for me it to keep a steady pace without hesitations. My teacher said to slow down the easy parts so the difficult parts don't appear slow.

Top
#2039810 - 02/26/13 07:08 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: jazzwee]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Originally Posted By: landorrano

Like Jazzwee, I beg to differ. Was it Chopin who said that to every technical difficulty there is a musical solution?

The real difficulty for adult beginners is taking the measure of just how little they know about music, and so they are unable to find the musical solution.



But I agree with this comment of yours 100%. Part of our problem is that we cannot yet "hear" the musicality issues (this varies depending on level). And if you hear the issue, you will just naturally attempt to correct it and a solution will come.


I think I get it. You people are talking about, like when my mother used to sing along with Andy Williams... Moon River. Poor guy couldn't say moon river without her bellowing out the most horrid excruciating rendition of the words: Moon River! She sounded like a water buffalo in heat!
Now what you guys are getting at is that she couldn't hear it!?

I couldn't disagree with you people more. That is not a difficulty in learning paino. It is a difficulty in learning to play piano well.

Now back to the water buffalo in heat. She could hear it. She just didn't care. Why? Andy did his job in music. He made a person want to join in and copy him. To sing along. That is when music is the best. The best music comes from you.

That is precisely what many of these beginners are wanting to do. Copy Chopin, Beethoven, etc. Because the music makes them want to play. That is all. It can sound like a water buffalo in heat. Don't matter a diddily. They are loving it. They are enjoying it. That is the end all of the greatest music on earth!
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

Top
#2039816 - 02/26/13 07:24 PM Re: Adult beginners - what is your number one question/problem? [Re: jazzwee]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
"""...
Landorrano, I didn't get too excited with your earlier support of sight-reading being the primary issue (especially for a jazz pianist like me that doesn't rely on scores).

But I agree with this comment of yours 100%. Part of our problem is that we cannot yet "hear" the musicality issues (this varies depending on level). And if you hear the issue, you will just naturally attempt to correct it and a solution will come.

A very common example among the people here on ABF is often I will find someone attempting a piece that's beyond their level and there's rhythmic/timing issue on the fast lines. To a beginner, it may just sound like a stream of fast notes, and he may not hear the unevenness yet. That hearing skill has to be developed.

Now where I am, as a jazz player, I already am beginning to hear problems in my solos that I didn't hear before. And I'm mad at myself for not hearing it, but I guess this is a never ending process. 10 Years from now I will probably hear new things again and will be solving different issues that I can't hear now.

So developing the musicality (or hearing it), to me is the single most important issue as a beginner. But beginners don't know it yet. Every solution emanates from this.

I would bet that intelligent listening to music (with an analytical mindset) may yield as much results as practice (like a 50:50 relationship). Or as I said earlier, a relationship between ProblemIdentification:ProblemResolution.

BTW this was a more recent realization of mine as I progressed. I wish I knew this at the beginning and I could have developed even faster.
..."""

jazzwee,

A very good post. I am a beginner piano player at 63. When I was 40 I got to learn to play a saxaphone as a beginner and played as a beginner for about 5 years with an excellent teacher
who assisted me while I played in two community bands, plus a blues band and a jazz band all as a beginner. When you play in a band you can hear yourself play but you also hear everyone else so you can hear you or others being out of tune or you being out of tune or playing too fast or too slow. As a beginner I didn't hear a lot of the suff going on around me even though my teacher tried to point out some of the stuff.

Now in my sixties I play and review all the time the music I have learned and even though I play the best that I can, I can instantly hear all my mistakes. So it comes with experience.
Band experience is awesome because you are with other musicians of different levels. When I played the sax, I remember trying to play duets with a couple of piano players and they had no expierence playing with other musicians and had trouble even thought they could play the piano well, they weren't used to listen to another musician - because as you know it is always about listening.


Edited by Michael_99 (02/26/13 07:30 PM)

Top
Page 3 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!

Trade Regrets:
Barry "Bear" Arnaut

(ad) Yamaha
Yamaha
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad) Piano Music Sale - Dover Publications
Piano Music Sale
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Suites recital -addendum
by Ganddalf
11/23/14 04:47 PM
Playing piano without a piano
by Cavell
11/23/14 04:31 PM
Chick Corea master class
by Dfrankjazz
11/23/14 03:42 PM
KAWAI MP7 - Touch Curve
by IMOL
11/23/14 03:20 PM
C. Bechstein M-180 made for American climate?
by Twindad
11/23/14 01:42 PM
Forum Stats
77013 Members
42 Forums
159297 Topics
2340015 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission