Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
Who's Online
70 registered (AZNpiano, ando, 20 invisible), 1062 Guests and 11 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Topic Options
#2039287 - 02/25/13 08:57 PM Complete Analysis before starting a new piece?
VJ. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 91
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Friends,

I've been fiddling smile with my digital piano on and off for the last 5 years (I know it is a very long time frown ). and Yes, I still consider myself a beginner (not a beginner who is just starting out). For theory, I mainly read "Tonal Harmony" by Kostka & Payne, and also refer to http://www.tonalityguide.com/ & http://www.musictheory.net/ .

My question is a very obvious one, even stupid. If so, please guide me.

Which is the right way to learn a new piece?

Doing the complete harmonic analysis for the whole piece before I start and work through each phrase/2-bars,
or should I just start and go with the flow?

and also, could you suggest me more pieces to learn which is progressively difficult from what I mentioned below?

My current repertoire:
Bach - Book I Prelude in C major
Beethoven - Minuet in G, Bagatelle Op.126 No.5
Chopin - Prelude Op.28 Nos.6 & 7

Working on:
Beethoven - Ecossaise in E flat major
Beethoven - Fur Elise
Bach - Book II Prelude in F minor

VJ

Top
(ads P/S)

Sauter Pianos

#2039293 - 02/25/13 09:08 PM Re: Complete Analysis before starting a new piece? [Re: VJ.]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2754
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By: VJ.


Which is the right way to learn a new piece?



I'd say do it however suits you or the way your teacher tells you.
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

Top
#2039318 - 02/25/13 09:55 PM Re: Complete Analysis before starting a new piece? [Re: malkin]
Derulux Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5379
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: malkin
Originally Posted By: VJ.


Which is the right way to learn a new piece?



I'd say do it however suits you or the way your teacher tells you.

About as good an answer as you'll get. I'll also add, "In the way that causes the fewest repeated mistakes."

Mistakes are okay. Practicing mistakes is a no-no. wink
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

Top
#2039399 - 02/26/13 01:48 AM Re: Complete Analysis before starting a new piece? [Re: VJ.]
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 1383
Loc: Cameron Park, California
Originally Posted By: VJ.
Friends,

I've been fiddling smile with my digital piano on and off for the last 5 years (I know it is a very long time frown ). and Yes, I still consider myself a beginner (not a beginner who is just starting out). For theory, I mainly read "Tonal Harmony" by Kostka & Payne, and also refer to http://www.tonalityguide.com/ & http://www.musictheory.net/ .

My question is a very obvious one, even stupid. If so, please guide me.

Which is the right way to learn a new piece?

Doing the complete harmonic analysis for the whole piece before I start and work through each phrase/2-bars,
or should I just start and go with the flow?

and also, could you suggest me more pieces to learn which is progressively difficult from what I mentioned below?

My current repertoire:
Bach - Book I Prelude in C major
Beethoven - Minuet in G, Bagatelle Op.126 No.5
Chopin - Prelude Op.28 Nos.6 & 7

Working on:
Beethoven - Ecossaise in E flat major
Beethoven - Fur Elise
Bach - Book II Prelude in F minor

VJ


I like the suggestions provided in http://grahamfitch.com/articles.htm#1, though have personally found the advice still a bit advanced. For me, running through a thorough mental or written analysis of the structure, melody and harmony help with the learning process as the piece is initially digested. It also greatly assists with memorization. As for how to then learn the piece at the piano, there are a plethora of threads that have been recently made on the topic. Graham Fitch himself recently published a very comprehensive eBook on the topic which can be found through the link to his blog in my profile.

Top
#2039518 - 02/26/13 10:12 AM Re: Complete Analysis before starting a new piece? [Re: VJ.]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2458
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
There's the right way for me and the right way for you and never the twain shall meet.

Compare different learning systems by experiment and don't drop a system permanently. We change over time and different methods suit some pieces more than others.

Keep a journal of what pieces you learn, how you learn them, how long it takes and how well (consistently) you play them.

Consider also how much you enjoy one system over another regardless of progress on it. Some methods may suit your personality better.
____________________________

A full harmonic analysis is as effective as a fart in a hurricane if you don't understand the results though it might help you memorise it quicker if that's your thing. A structural and thematic analysis is a better bet in practical terms - what bits repeat and where, and what measures repeat closely or exactly and what measures look the same but aren't. Are there changes of mood or tempo required and are they marked as such?

Are there distinct sections that can be worked individually (easy with a rag or a mazurka, difficult with a prelude or a fugue)?
____________________________

A cursory gloss of repertory material

Baroque (mostly hand and finger independence and articulation)
Bach is fundamental to all keyboard technique but don't overlook Scarlatti who, like Chopin, wrote specifically for the keyboard as opposed to on it.
Anna Magdalena, Little preludes;
2 part inventions, easy suite movements (sarabandes, minuets, gavottes, doubles);
3 part sinfonia, harder suite movements (allemandes, courantes and gigues);
WTC

Classical (structural understanding, greater diversity of texture and rhythm)
Sonatinas by Clementi, Kuhlau, etc., early sonatas of Haydn;
Sonatas by Haydn, Clementi, Mozart, early Beethoven and Schubert;
Later sonatas by Beethoven and last three by Schubert

Romantic (greater diversification of form, rhythm and tonality)
Albums for the Young (Schumann and Tchaikovsky), Mikrokosmos;
Chopin waltzes, mazurkas, Grieg Lyric pieces, Mendelssohn easier SWW's, Schumann Kinderszenen;
Chopin nocturnes, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Brahms, easy Liszt, Debussy;
Chopin ballades, études, Liszt années, études, Ravel, Rachmaninoff
_________________________
Richard

Top

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
Christmas Header
Christmas Lights at Piano World Headquarters in Maine 2014
-------------------
The December Free Piano Newsletter
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Never thought it would end up at that instrument ...
by fatast
45 minutes 42 seconds ago
Is Yelp reliable for evaluating piano stores?
by Le Chiffre
Today at 02:08 AM
Guide to Teaching
by Arghhh
Today at 12:39 AM
Making a New York Steinway sound like a Hamburg Steinway
by nphase
Yesterday at 10:24 PM
Merry Christmas from Brazil! Feliz Natal!!
by Piano_Brazil
Yesterday at 09:19 PM
Forum Stats
77375 Members
42 Forums
160032 Topics
2350080 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission