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#1167722 - 03/24/09 04:18 AM BachScholar - What do we think of him?
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
Ignorant, pretentious and unfounded theories on a Richard Kastle scale? Or a refreshing and interesting re-evaluation of Bach's work? What do we think of him?

If anyone doesn't know who I'm talking about, search for his videos on Youtube. The one where he compares himself to a prophet is quite good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tRVudoNMLA

laugh

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#1167730 - 03/24/09 05:12 AM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: debrucey]
Bart Kinlein Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 715
Loc: Maryland
Best ignored.
_________________________
Steinway 1905 model A, rebuild started 2008, completed 2012
Yahama CVP-401
Will somone get my wife off the Steinway so I can play it!

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#1167734 - 03/24/09 05:33 AM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: Bart Kinlein]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
A crank.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1167746 - 03/24/09 06:29 AM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: keyboardklutz]
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
Before the days of the Internet - YouTube, blogging, etc. - there were untold numbers of theories, opinions, "research"... that never saw the light of day, and rightly so.

Crackpots like BachScholar, and Richard Kastle would not have been heard from or about.

Now anyone with a tin hat, and a video camera can get "discussed," and "debated" about.

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#1167797 - 03/24/09 09:03 AM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: Phlebas]
pianovirus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 956
Loc: Basel, Switzerland
I agree with the previous posters on this particular "research". However, more generally, one should caution not to dismiss all unorthodox ideas immediately just because they are off the mainstream thinking. A quick and quite reliable indicator for me is the intensity and tone in which something is advertised. This is somehow common all across the field and including Kastle, BachScholar and the likes. Oddly this also happens even with people like Stephen Wolfram who have achieved something notable before (Mathematica) but then went nuts ("A new kind of science").
In contrast, people with really good ideas or achievements are often much more relaxed and do not promote them so aggressively. Mahler once was asked by a friend to do more for promoting his symphonies (which were much misunderstood in their mix of "high" and "low" art elements). His reply apparently was that he is quite confident that they will become better appreciated and understood over time, and "I don't need to live to see them becoming immortal".
_________________________
youtube.com/user/pianovirus

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#1168155 - 03/24/09 06:49 PM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: pianovirus]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
I'm dubious of anyone who says that their scientific theory came from divine intervention. BachScholar doesn't really explain a lot in his videos (and you have to pay for his essays, ahem). He also trails the comment strings on his vids in a very Richard Kastle/mikecaffey way.

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#1168196 - 03/24/09 07:43 PM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: keyboardklutz]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
A crank.


Agreed. Yikes! sick
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1168213 - 03/24/09 08:16 PM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: Horowitzian]
LiszThalberg Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 3288
At least he can play pretty well. There are tons of people on YouTube that probably don't play piano making rants and bad comments on people's videos.


Matt

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#1168245 - 03/24/09 09:39 PM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: LiszThalberg]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
That's true. One reason why I never read the comments.
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1168359 - 03/25/09 02:22 AM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: LiszThalberg]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: Debussy20
At least he can play pretty well.
Notice he uses a stiff arm/wrist for accents when he should be fingers only. Whether modern or 18th century technique, the wrists should be light. Besides, reducing such a great work to its least important aspect is a nonsense, like discussing what hair gel Napoleon used.
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snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1174892 - 04/05/09 01:43 PM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: keyboardklutz]
Coolkid70 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 378
Loc: Irvine, CA
I know that this is a bit old, but I wanted to post some discussion on Cory Hall (BachScholar) by some academics.

https://lists.wu-wien.ac.at/pipermail/earlym-l/2008-December/008045.html
_________________________
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#1175093 - 04/05/09 07:43 PM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: Coolkid70]
jdhampton924 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 1048
Loc: Evansville, Indiana
Well I have heard worse bach, but the guy has a huge ego either way. That video was worth a laugh though with the new age music starting it off then I assume Bach.

The whole Abraham thing, reminded me of my 21st birthday.. haha

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#1175761 - 04/06/09 08:22 PM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: jdhampton924]
djtoast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/20/07
Posts: 136
Loc: Glasgow
I just watched a couple of his videos. Unless I'm missing something, he seems to be saying "if you play Bach's pieces at such a speed that they all take exactly one minute, then they're all the same length. Which proves that the correct tempo is that which makes them a minute long." (Or multiples therof, etc. Well I know I'm simplifying things but then so is he!)

I actually enjoyed his Goldbergs more than I expected to - although that's maybe more down to how Bach wrote 'em then how he played 'em. For instance, number 30 sounded a bit like a march - he could be more delicate with phrasing. And I can't help thinking that's rather sad, because his slightly mechanical approach probably stems from his fixation with tempo as the starting point for interpretation, rather than melody, harmonic progression etc. And his technique seems like it would be sufficient to lift him above that if it weren't hampered by his odd ideas.

And yes, the music that followed the new age, er, "moment" was Bach, from the Musical Offering, no?


Edited by djtoast (04/06/09 08:24 PM)
_________________________
Brodmann BU 125 upright
1880 Blüthner 7'2" grand

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#2035072 - 02/18/13 01:13 AM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: debrucey]
chopinlover88 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/18/11
Posts: 14
I know this is super old, but after watching some of his videos, Im confused on how he plays with such stiff wrists? I notice the pieces that require touch and character, like some of the chopin pieces, sound very empty and robotic. He has several degrees in music performance and Im just confused on how things are taught? I started piano lessons a year ago and my instructor wont let me play a note without rotating my wrists and having lots of wrist and hand flexibility. Is this not universal-ish?


Edited by chopinlover88 (02/19/13 01:59 AM)

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#2035075 - 02/18/13 01:28 AM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: chopinlover88]
Carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6889
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: chopinlover88
I know this is super old, but after watching some of his videos, Im confused on how he played with such stiff wrists? I notice his pieces that require touch and character, like some of the chopin pieces, are very empty and robotic. He has several degrees in music performance and Im just confused on how things are taught? I started piano lessons a year ago and my instructor wont let me play a note without rotating my wrists and having lots of wrist and hand flexibility. Is this not universal-ish?


Apparently not.

And don't forget about keeping your arms relaxed as well.

I am impressed, however, by the amount of music BachScholar has memorized !!
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YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#2035081 - 02/18/13 01:42 AM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: Carey]
chopinlover88 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/18/11
Posts: 14

Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: chopinlover88
I know this is super old, but after watching some of his videos, Im confused on how he played with such stiff wrists? I notice his pieces that require touch and character, like some of the chopin pieces, are very empty and robotic. He has several degrees in music performance and Im just confused on how things are taught? I started piano lessons a year ago and my instructor wont let me play a note without rotating my wrists and having lots of wrist and hand flexibility. Is this not universal-ish?


Apparently not.

And don't forget about keeping your arms relaxed as well.

I am impressed, however, by the amount of music BachScholar has memorized !!


thanks! that is pretty impressive.. I feel like he has reached a ceiling in his expressiveness.. but of course this is a very limited amt of experience talking.

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#2035083 - 02/18/13 01:53 AM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: debrucey]
JoelW Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 5114
Loc: USA
His video was removed. Can someone please explain to me his position? I have heard him play. His Chopin is dry and his Bach is decent. That's about all I can say. What's all this talk about him being a 'prophet'?

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#2035086 - 02/18/13 02:07 AM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: debrucey]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6382
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
I think he has more subscribers and views than he deserves.
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#2039891 - 02/26/13 09:57 PM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: chopinlover88]
UberB Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/06/12
Posts: 28
Originally Posted By: chopinlover88
I know this is super old, but after watching some of his videos, Im confused on how he plays with such stiff wrists? I notice the pieces that require touch and character, like some of the chopin pieces, sound very empty and robotic. He has several degrees in music performance and Im just confused on how things are taught? I started piano lessons a year ago and my instructor wont let me play a note without rotating my wrists and having lots of wrist and hand flexibility. Is this not universal-ish?


It's because he's bad.

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#2039895 - 02/26/13 10:14 PM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: debrucey]
jotur Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 6032
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Whoa! One post by keyboardklutz and one by Phlebas before I realized this was an old thread! Nostalgia smile

Cathy
_________________________
Cathy

Practice like you are the worst; play like you are the best - anonymous

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#2441656 - 07/15/15 05:34 PM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: debrucey]
Zebrafingers Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/15/15
Posts: 3
I just found this site and subscribed.

I am a clarinetist who has decided to go back and learn piano for real. I did listen to the BachScholar for awhile. I was pretty fascinated ( I am beginner on piano). I even went as far as contacting him to start lessons but, something came up and I cancelled. Good thing, I suppose.

Just recently he has posted some beg for money ads stating in one that he has some people that are suing him although he never states why. In another ad he writes that there is a child support issue going on and they have used much of their money fighting it. And another ad I saw yesterday states that he must moved back to Florida, blah, blah, blah.

I find it amazing that someone would get into legal problems and then, have that audacity to go on youtube and beg for money to keep BachScholar going. I did write a sentence or two on his wive's FB asking why his business is being affected by money that should be coming from his personal income.

I am so glad that I read all the things on here including his playing issues. To the novice piano ear we do not know better. I do not feel sorry for him but, he is trying to capitalize on his client's feeling sorry. laugh

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#2441660 - 07/15/15 05:47 PM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: debrucey]
WhoDwaldi Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 819
Loc: Southeastern United States
He has a very good memory and a very nice piano.

If I'm recalling correctly, he is an organist, also. I think over the years since his doctorate, organ-isms must have entered into his piano playing too much. Otherwise, I feel he gets criticized a bit too severely. Many of his videos are at practice tempos so people studying the works can hear what's going on more clearly. He may well be a fine Skype teacher.

I disagree with his Bach tempo theories.

A certain amount of "puffery" (exaggerated self-promotion as in advertising) gets misinterpreted as arrogance.
_________________________
WhoDwaldi
Howard (by Kawai) 5' 10"

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#2441737 - 07/16/15 02:55 AM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: WhoDwaldi]
kcostell Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 162
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Reposting what I said in a different thread

Quote:
I've never really found his claims about Bach's approach to tempos to be very convincing. For me a lot of it falls prey to what in Math is termed the "law of small numbers". For any given Bach piece, there's a fairly wide range of tempi that might be considered reasonable in performance. So if you take a few connected pieces (e.g. a prelude and fugue, or the different sections of the toccata and fugue), there will almost always be some tempo at which to perform each section that happen to make the section lengths come out to nice ratios.

Not because of any plan or deep meaning on Bach's part, but just by sheer coincidence and/or cooking the length of each piece appropriately to make the numbers come out right. You could do the same thing a large portion of the time even if you looked at a pair of completely unrelated short pieces composed centuries apart.

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#2441861 - 07/16/15 01:45 PM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: debrucey]
indigo_dave Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/12
Posts: 104
This thread snagged my interest a little. I watched part of his hand exercise video - Tausig exercise. I'll check out the whole vid later and try it out.

Off hand, he seems like a poor man's wanna-be Donald Trump. When Mohammad Ali bragged about himself, seems like he had a wink in his eye. He didn't believe all his noise. One gets the sense that this guy really means it.

I wonder if he has any videos of him playing one of his compositions. Being the genius he is, I think he'd have written music making points that Beethoven and Schoenberg missed. He would be showing us the musical error of their ways. Just sayin'.
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https://soundcloud.com/david-goethe/tracks

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#2442088 - 07/17/15 07:20 AM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: debrucey]
wouter79 Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 4024
Given he's discussed here, he clearly reached some level of fame smile

He has nice Joplin rags from him there that are worth listening to.

He makes good recordings (good sound and video). He looks relaxed and solid while playing, even when it gets harder he just goes on metronomically as if nothing happens.

But that is also his weakness. There is stiffness/rigidity in his playing that I like less (e.g., in his la campanella below). This may be more about interpretation but IMHO playing a showpiece with a metronome-like stability is silly. Even his victory wave at the end looks studied smile Maybe he is just showing how to learn the piece, not sure.



His bragging about the Bach stuff is a bit silly but I guess it's a way of selling things. I don't bother with that, I'm not into Bach anyway.
_________________________

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#2442092 - 07/17/15 08:04 AM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: wouter79]
DerZauberlehrling Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/12/15
Posts: 11
Originally Posted By wouter79
Given he's discussed here, he clearly reached some level of fame smile

He has nice Joplin rags from him there that are worth listening to.

He makes good recordings (good sound and video). He looks relaxed and solid while playing, even when it gets harder he just goes on metronomically as if nothing happens.

But that is also his weakness. There is stiffness/rigidity in his playing that I like less (e.g., in his la campanella below). This may be more about interpretation but IMHO playing a showpiece with a metronome-like stability is silly. Even his victory wave at the end looks studied smile Maybe he is just showing how to learn the piece, not sure.



His bragging about the Bach stuff is a bit silly but I guess it's a way of selling things. I don't bother with that, I'm not into Bach anyway.


Relaxed? Sorry, but he plays with a LOT of tension... it's painful to watch his hands while playing.

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#2442096 - 07/17/15 08:47 AM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: debrucey]
timmyab Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 477
Loc: Bristol, UK
He's just a deluded amateur or be it a reasonably good one. Fairly competent technically (by amateur standards), he's got virtually nothing to say musically.

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#2442105 - 07/17/15 09:26 AM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: debrucey]
sirwormsalot Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 83
Sad to say that delusional people like this exist everywhere. Confidence, I guess.

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#2442176 - 07/17/15 01:20 PM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: timmyab]
Tararex Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 456
Loc: Middle Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By timmyab
He's just a deluded amateur or be it a reasonably good one. Fairly competent technically (by amateur standards), he's got virtually nothing to say musically.


Is this supposed to be a burn or do you truly believe a paycheck is necessary for greatness?

Bobby Jones was a amateur. As were Gregor Mendel, Michael Faraday, and many others who outshone the "pros".

BachScholar is making a living doing what he does so it seems he actually understands the difference between professional and amateur.

But yes, he is one stiff leaden toned player with an amazing memory.
_________________________


Piano is hard work from beginning to forever. Accept this as truth or risk a quick exit with tail between legs.



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#2442184 - 07/17/15 01:47 PM Re: BachScholar - What do we think of him? [Re: Tararex]
timmyab Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 477
Loc: Bristol, UK
You mean he's a pro? OMG!!! People will buy anything it seems.
I didn't mean amateur pejoratively, I just assumed he was one. In this case it seems we have that rare beast, a deluded professional smile

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