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I know he was a Jazz pianist and not classical, but I thought the Pianist's Corner might be more knowledgeable nonetheless.

I'm researching some of Art Tatum's licks and runs. Was he the first to do this sort of thing? Who influenced him? Did he invent that style of piano playing?

I would think that Art Tatum would have been influenced by the pianists of the late 1910's such as: Eubie Blake, Charles "Luckey" Roberts and James P. Johnson.

Earl Hines.
He invented a lot of stuff himself but you can hear the evolution of some of the lines from Waller and many other players.

Dick Hyman( can sound amazingly like Tatum if he wants to) and others have a whole series of Youtube videos on the technical aspects of Tatums' playing:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=art+tatum%27s+lessons&oq=art+tatum%27s+lessons&gs_l=youtube-reduced.12...7941.13560.0.16475.19.18.0.1.1.0.384.3375.6j3j4j5.18.0...0.0...1ac.1.UD9Sy3-0NbE

Check out this book available on Amazon and other places:
The Right Hand According to Tatum: A Guide to Tatum's Improvisational Techniques Plus 10 Transcribed Piano Solos by
Riccardo Scivales

Here is Dick Hyman playing like Tatum:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRgWECXLKY8

Here is the terrific classical pianist Mei Ting Sun playing Tatum:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF9v4uzR4OA

Mei Ting Not even close, more like a robot with no concept of jazz. Dick Hyman played very nice night & day difference from Ting. Playing "like Tatum" is more then just playing the notes Tatum wrote/improvised. Can anyone "play like" Horowitz? ?

One should not expect a classical pianist like Mei Ting Sun to have the knowledge the jazz idiom or nuances of a very great jazz pianist like Dick Hyman who has spent at least 50 years playing jazz. That being said, I think Sun plays that piece better than many professional jazz pianists could and certainly better than most classical pianists could.

I've heard more than a few classical pianists let their hair down and play jazz almost to the manner born when they felt like it. And some of them aren't the usual suspects (American or French, or African-American) that one might expect.

For instance, there's Dmitri Alexeev (who was a Leeds winner and has CDs of Rachmaninoff, Medtner and Shostakovich to his credit) accompanying Barbara Hendricks in spirituals, improvising the accompaniment in true jazz style. And I heard Denis Matsuev last year on a live radio program, improvising a highly virtuosic piece, throwing in Tatum-like runs and boogie-woogie, amongst other jazz idioms, into the mix. Art Tatum frankly couldn't hold a candle to his brilliant and intricate runs, even if he's arguably more idiomatic.

Hmm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_lCL04CT_Q

What a pleasure, just to read this name. Earl "Fatha" Hines.

Listen to some Andre Previn and tell me he can't play jazz.

While on the subject of classical pianists playing jazz to the manner born, how about the late, great Friedrich Gulda? (Also known for faking his own death, and playing in the buff..... )

http://youtu.be/hgyxtgHROxg

BTW, he also plays very classical Mozart, and powerful and virile Chopin.....

Previn plays some pretty good jazz but to compare him to Tatum is just absurd, I am sure he would be the first to admit it. Previn tells a good story about when Tatum met Horowitz which is quite illuminating.

you can read it here if you like...

http://tatumquotes.piczo.com/

"... from Andre Previn, who told the tale of how Horowitz was dazzled when he first heard Tatum at a nightclub and took his father-in-law Toscannini to see him the next night. Tatum and Horowitz became friends...
With Hofmann, Lhevinne and Godowsky still around, Horowitz had not quite yet reached the top of the pile, and so he took to making his own finger-wrenching transcriptions, using them as his finales. Audiences had already gone wild over the "Gypsy Theme from Carmen" and, especially, his "Stars and Stripes Forever"; Horowitz was in search now for a new, more effective theme. He chose Vincent Youman's "Tea for Two". Months and months of work produced a virtuoso showpiece so knotty that it took Horowitz several months more to prepare and learn it for performance. Always the conscientious artist, he wanted first to have the opinions of those whom he respected before taking the transcription to the public; of course he asked Tatum.
Up in his apartment, Horowitz sat himself at the piano and began to pay "Tea for Two" for his Jazz counterpart. Thunder and lightening, hail and brimstone, Horowitz finished the piece and looks up immediately at Tatum with an eager set of eyes.
"What do you think?" asks the Russian.
"Very good. I enjoyed it." comes the answer. Pause. Tatum continues: "Would you like to hear my version of 'Tea for Two'?"
"Certainly I would. Go ahead."
Tatum gets up and launches into the piece that has always been one of his specialties. Horowitz' mouth drops when he hears what he hears and as soon as the Jazzman finishes:
"My God! That was fantastic! Where did you get that transcription? You must give it to me!"
"Transcription?" answers Tatum, "That was no transcription. I was just improvising!"
Horowitz liked to play "Tea for Two" for his own pleasure; but he never played it in public."

You dont "play jazz" it plays you. I stand with my comments about Ting. Sounds like a typewriter.

pianoloverus says:
"One should not expect a classical pianist like Mei Ting Sun to have the knowledge the jazz idiom or nuances of a very great jazz pianist like Dick Hyman who has spent at least 50 years playing jazz. That being said, I think Sun plays that piece better than many professional jazz pianists could and certainly better than most classical pianists could."

Be that as it may you wont find many true "jazz pianists" trying to imitate anyone. That just wouldn't be jazz.


bennevis says:
"Art Tatum frankly couldn't hold a candle to his brilliant and intricate runs, even if he's arguably more idiomatic." -- Art Tatum was basically blind and never trained as a classical pianist as the others you mentioned. Had he done so you I would bet both pinkies that he would do more then just hold a candle.

All the comments by myself and others who really fall of deaf ears becuase we just don't carry the weight to make such critics of anyone. But...

Toscanini was once an hour late to his own performance in New York because he was stupefied listening to Tatum in a club. He said Tatum was the greatest piano player of all times.
---------------
Rachmaninov said that he understood what Tatum played, but was unable to do the same. And also 'If this man ever decides to play serious music we're all in trouble'
---------------
When a young scholar in music recognised the maestro, Arthur Rubinstein,in the murky recesses of a club, he asked "What are you doing in such a place?", Rubinstein simply answered, "Shhhh, I'm just listening to the greatest musician that ever was."
--------------
Oscar Levant tells of Gershwin finding Tatum in a Hollywood nightclub:
To George's great joy, Tatum played virtually the equivalent of Beethoven's thirty-two variations on his tune "Liza". Then George asked for more.

--------------
Finally from Andre Previn, who told the tale of how Horowitz was dazzled when he first heard Tatum at a nightclub and took his father-in-law Toscannini to see him the next night. Tatum and Horowitz became friends...

CASE CLOSED. so back to the original question. Who was Tatums influence? I'm sure there were many, including a host of great classical composers

Almost your entire post has nothing to do with my objection to your harsh criticism of Sun. No one's claiming Sun plays this piece as well as Tatum or that Tatum wasn't sensational. But your criticism of Sun, which I find somewhat mean spirited, is only personal opinion. And my thinking is that those most quick to criticize other pianists are often nowhere near as correct as they think.

Didnt mean to be mean spirited but just felt inclined to comment on his not so great playing of Jazz. I would do the same if Mc Coy Tyner or Dave Brubeck had made a run at playing Lizst attempting to pass it off as classical piano.

For what it's worth I play classical music but love jazz almost just as much, just cant play it as I would like to .

JoelW -- In addition to some of the sources and influences already cited, I'd probably include Teddy Wilson and Willie ("The Lion")Smith as swing and stride influences, respectively. Truth of the matter is, though, jazz pianists of that time pretty much looked upon HIM as THE extraordinary influencer -- not only in a technical, but also a musical sense. When asked what he thought of Tatum when he first heard him, the pianist Jaki Byard said something to that effect that "I was just beyond stunned -- and not just by his phenomenal technical chops, but his ability to project complicated 13th relationships and modulations across the entire keyboard so effortlessly, transforming the theme across different keys and registers at lightning speed. It would've taken me a month or so to provide the variety he accomplished in three minutes of improvisation."

I had never heard of Denis Matsuev before this thread and gave a quick listen to several pieces on YouTube. He was highly influenced by Oscar according to my ears.

Fats Waller was once playing in a night club in Harlem, and another professional pianist dropped by. When he noticed the newcomer, Waller stopped playing, stood up and said, "Ladies and gentlemen, I'm a pretty good piano player... but God just walked into this club." He was talking about Art Tatum

Oscar did have a way of telling a story...

When young, I was suitably astonished by Tatum recordings. But eventually it became clear that his bag of tricks was quite limited, and full of mannerisms and some very predictable tics. The virtuosity itself is still amazing, but as an improvisor, he is just not that interesting to me anymore. There is something rote and excessively formula-driven about it, to my ears.

Of course, it's easy to get spoiled by all the wonderful jazz improvisation that came after Tatum's era, and to make unfair comparisons. And it is easy to forget that some of the classical musicians gushing over his playing probably had fairly limited exposure to jazz improvisation at all.

But still, that virtuosity, on first encounter, in a live performance (after a drink or two on the listener's part) - holy smokes!!!! - I can easily see why people went nuts.

I have to say I totally agree with you. I bought a big box of CDs containing all of Tatum's recordings over his whole career some time ago, and still haven't listened to every track - in fact, I only managed to listen to about two CDs' worth, dipping into each CD before I got bored. After one rendition of Tea for Two, you already know what to expect from what he's going to do with another 'improvisation'. And then you realize that a lot of so-called jazz improvisations contain mostly well-rehearsed formulaic patterns of runs etc, and harmonic progressions containing 'added-notes' which rapidly pall.

There is a reason why great music isn't improvised.