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#2040120 - 02/27/13 12:27 PM Van Cliburn 1934-2013
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13779
Loc: Iowa City, IA
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"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#2040127 - 02/27/13 12:41 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Orange Soda King Offline
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Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Rest in peace. He was a legend.

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#2040132 - 02/27/13 12:50 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19736
Loc: New York
R.I.P.

Not unexpected but very sad.
Truly one of the great pianists of our time, and one who inadvertently became a force for world peace.
Having the opportunity to meet him and speak with him at the Cliburn amateur competitions was an unimaginable joy, as you can see in this picture which I feel very fortunate to have as one of those memories. I will miss him greatly, in many respects.

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#2040141 - 02/27/13 01:00 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19736
Loc: New York
He was my most favorite of many favorite performers of Brahms' 2nd Concerto. Here's a complete performance from 1972:


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#2040145 - 02/27/13 01:08 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
gooddog Offline
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Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4793
Loc: Seattle area, WA
I'm very saddened to here this.
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Best regards,

Deborah

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#2040146 - 02/27/13 01:09 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Tavner Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 376
Loc: San Diego
RIP. One of the great pianists of the 20th century. Sponsored a world-famous competition. I vividly remember in 1972 when he made his annual visit to the National Music Camp in Interlochen, Michigan. I played horn in the World Youth Symphony. When he sat down at the first rehearsal and began playing the Rachmaninoff 3rd I was amazed at the huge sound he was able to get from the piano. He really played well that week. Unforgettable.
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#2040154 - 02/27/13 01:19 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
argerichfan Online   sick
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8858
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Wow. Not the best news with which to stir up a quiet morning at work. I feel momentarily out of breath.

(BTW, great picture, Mark.)
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Jason

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#2040157 - 02/27/13 01:26 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5296
Loc: Philadelphia
I was fortunate enough to hear him play his last concert at Tanglewood. He wasn't in top form that night, but it was a memorable experience for me. Definitely one of the greats.

Here is a non-piano clip shortly after winning the Tchaikovsky competition from the TV show "What's My Line":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lUFFZqXtoM
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Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2040165 - 02/27/13 01:34 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Derulux]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19736
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Derulux
Here is a non-piano clip shortly after winning the Tchaikovsky competition from the TV show "What's My Line":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lUFFZqXtoM

What a great thing to have! I found it on there a while ago, and did a post on there. The clip shows a totally other side of him, and it's hilarious.

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#2040173 - 02/27/13 01:47 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
izaldu Offline
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Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1250
Loc:
nooo ...

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#2040175 - 02/27/13 01:48 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
bennevis Offline
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Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5023
He was one of the first pianists to play the original 1913 version of Rachmaninoff's Sonata No.2 at a time when even the score was almost impossible to find. And he also played the big chordal cadenza in Rachmaninoff's 3rd concerto when it wasn't at all fashionable, and made it his own, perhaps paving the way for other pianists. Even Ashkenazy didn't switch to that big cadenza until much later.

His recordings of those two works remain landmarks, in my opinion, even more so than that of the Tchaikovsky No.1.

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#2040177 - 02/27/13 01:55 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Brendan Offline



Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5300
Loc: McAllen, TX
Awful! frown

This performance has always been my benchmark for the piece:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apNTq-Tgf4w

RIP, Maestro.
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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#2040180 - 02/27/13 01:58 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
PattyP Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/07/04
Posts: 611
Loc: Texas
I'm so sorry to hear this.

RIP, Mr. Cliburn.
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A tired dog is a good dog.

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#2040210 - 02/27/13 02:37 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: bennevis]
argerichfan Online   sick
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8858
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: bennevis
And he also played the big chordal cadenza in Rachmaninoff's 3rd concerto when it wasn't at all fashionable, and made it his own...

He certainly made a more convincing case for it than Gieseking's rather unfocused scramble.

I'm sure many will have their own 'landmark' Cliburn recordings, but to me his MacDowell D minor remains unsurpassed.
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#2040214 - 02/27/13 02:42 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Ralph Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/01
Posts: 1298
Loc: Delaware (slower/lower)
I am shocked. One of the most important pianists of the 20th century.
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#2040226 - 02/27/13 03:01 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Vid Offline
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Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 833
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
Sad news indeed.
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#2040238 - 02/27/13 03:15 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
JerryS88 Offline
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Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 638
Loc: Ringwood, NJ
What a terribly sad loss - one of the greatest. Thank you Van Cliburn for sharing your amazing talent.

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#2040245 - 02/27/13 03:26 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
pianogirl87 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 107
Loc: New Jersey
So saddened to hear of this...and right before the 14th competition too...

One of my former piano teachers actually heard him perform in the Soviet Union. She said he played Rachmaninoff better than the Russians could. She really looked up to him.

Ironically, I was listening to his recording of Prokofiev 3 this morning. Such marvelous talent.
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#2040252 - 02/27/13 03:37 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
didyougethathing Offline
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Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 544
Loc: New York
A true legend, he will be missed.

My favorite performance:


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#2040293 - 02/27/13 04:53 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1111
Loc: chicago, il
one of my all time favorite pianists. he'll live on thru his recordings.
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#2040314 - 02/27/13 05:18 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
carey Offline
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Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6294
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
I had the opportunity to hear him play on two different occasions (the Tchaikovsky 1 and Rachmaninoff 2) and also sat at the same table and chatted briefly with him at a Symphony fundraiser many years ago. Such a gentleman - a class act. Fifty years from now Cliburn will still be remembered as one of the great pianists of the 20th Century - long after many of his peers have been forgotten. RIP.
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#2040315 - 02/27/13 05:24 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4763
Loc: USA
Damnit.

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#2040317 - 02/27/13 05:27 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6114
Loc: St. Louis area
R.I.P. frown
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#2040356 - 02/27/13 07:26 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Horowitzian Offline
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Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
R.I.P. Van, you will be missed. I was hoping he might hang on for another Cliburn Competition, but it wasn't meant to be.
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#2040358 - 02/27/13 07:32 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
As I have written before, I experienced one of the greatest moments in my life when I watched him perform at Grant Park in Chicago right after his triumph in Russia. This was in 1958.

In this day of such crass and insulting noise that is considered by so many as music, Mr. Cliburn is so far above it all that he is a world in and of itself. I can think of no greater and more deserved praise.

With a heavy heart,
Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#2040380 - 02/27/13 08:44 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
DameMyra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1948
Loc: South Jersey
As a child I remember him winning the Tchaikovsky. My mother rushed out and bought the Tchaikovsky as soon as it came out and listened to it endlessly.

One of the great disappointments in my life was not hearing him live.

I was just listening to his Chopin 3rd Ballade last night. It remains my favorite performance of that work.

"Good night, sweet prince, And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest!"
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#2040468 - 02/28/13 12:27 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
argerichfan Online   sick
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8858
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Just ran across this. Enjoy!

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Jason

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#2040489 - 02/28/13 01:00 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
John Pels Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 1258
Loc: Tomball, Texas
Van was one of those larger than life guys that I was lucky to meet in my piano youth at a small college in South Jersey back in the early 70's. I remember he landed in an adjacent field in a helicopter, never warmed up and just hastened to the hall, sat down and played a typically grand program. He met with all of the aspiring young pianists at a reception afterwards and chatted with any and all that showed more than a passing interest. He was totally engaged and couldn't have been a better ambassador for the piano and classical music in general, just a really warm and very kind absolute gentleman. I learned the A flat polonaise that semester, inspired by his performance.

Not just a great artist, but a great human being.

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#2040492 - 02/28/13 01:10 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: bennevis]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: bennevis
He was one of the first pianists to play the original 1913 version of Rachmaninoff's Sonata No.2 at a time when even the score was almost impossible to find. And he also played the big chordal cadenza in Rachmaninoff's 3rd concerto when it wasn't at all fashionable, and made it his own, perhaps paving the way for other pianists. Even Ashkenazy didn't switch to that big cadenza until much later.

His recordings of those two works remain landmarks, in my opinion, even more so than that of the Tchaikovsky No.1.


Yes, I agree, and, I have a personal favorite in his Chopin performances:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCnEn6rzTLY

Superb playing!

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#2040493 - 02/28/13 01:11 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
minorkeyed Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 108
Loc: US
His legend lives on. He was truly one of a kind; I doubt there will ever be another like him. His life was like a fairy tale; a phenomenon that owed as much to the man, the person within, as the pianist. We were fortunate to be around while he was.

I wrote him a letter once!

Skipping practice tonight to come online and be with fellow pianists.

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#2040504 - 02/28/13 01:51 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Sad news when such an historically important icon passes.

Excellent obituary in the NYT found here: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/28/arts/music/van-cliburn-pianist-dies-at-78.html

Obituary once again confirms that Van Cliburn also deserves to be added to the pantheon of names of great master pianists listed on this thread:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2028931/The%20piano%20and%20homosexuality.html

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#2040512 - 02/28/13 02:17 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Michael Sayers Offline
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Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1027
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
I lived in Dallas, and later between Dallas and Fort Worth, before moving to Sweden several years ago.

One anecdote that I heard was of him being recognized in a Barnes & Noble by a mother and her piano-student child. The story is that he spent about half-an-hour speaking with the little girl about playing the piano.

This shows the type of man he was and of course it radiates forth in his playing.

And his life and activities showed that he genuinely was aware of and placed into action the transformative power of great music for a person's life and the world.

One doesn't have to be a concert pianist champion of peace to do it, or give tremendous recitals for decades for charitable causes as Liszt did - one can for instance play for free at a nursing home. There are endless possibilities to serve others through music.

Van Cliburn was a fine role model for what a pianist can be and for what it really means to be a musician and to live out the proper role of music in the world!


Mvh,
Michael


Edited by Michael Sayers (02/28/13 02:30 AM)

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#2040519 - 02/28/13 02:38 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1075
Whenever a thread comes up about Van Cliburn, or his name comes up in a musical conversation, I am surprised at how many people say, "I met him," or "I had my picture taken with him", or "He wrote back to me." With Van Cliburn, he always had time to talk or communicate with anybody interested in piano. He had time, because he made time.

By fate he became an ambassador for classical piano in 1958. After all the hoopla died down, he could have stepped back and become just another touring professional. He didn't. He embraced his role as ambassador of the piano and classical music. It came across in his performance style - his warm and enveloping sound, and his personality on stage (in one concert I heard him perform, he played six encores). He was an active presence at the competitions which bore his name. There was never a line too long backstage, because he would make time to meet everyone and treat them graciously.

Russian audiences, especially in the Soviet era of dullness and grayness, could be very sensitive to the emotional bearing of a performer, and they picked up on Van Cliburn's warmth immediately. It's one reason he won the Tschaikovsky competition, and his emotional connection to people never failed him or us over the next 50 years on the public stage.

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#2040591 - 02/28/13 07:32 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1111
Loc: chicago, il
a very nice piece npr did a few years back...



i saw him play in the early '70s and i don't think i've ever seen a pianist make it look so easy.


Edited by Entheo (02/28/13 07:35 AM)
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#2040700 - 02/28/13 10:41 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: John Pels]
DameMyra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1948
Loc: South Jersey
Originally Posted By: John Pels
Van was one of those larger than life guys that I was lucky to meet in my piano youth at a small college in South Jersey back in the early 70's. I remember he landed in an adjacent field in a helicopter, never warmed up and just hastened to the hall, sat down and played a typically grand program. He met with all of the aspiring young pianists at a reception afterwards and chatted with any and all that showed more than a passing interest. He was totally engaged and couldn't have been a better ambassador for the piano and classical music in general, just a really warm and very kind absolute gentleman. I learned the A flat polonaise that semester, inspired by his performance.

Not just a great artist, but a great human being.


We were told that same story about him just yesterday before our weekly studio class. smile
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#2040707 - 02/28/13 10:51 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3459
Loc: US
He was such an inspiration-- when you see pictures of his ticker tape parade in NYC, it's hard to imagine that happening now. A beautiful soul and musical spirit. RIP, Mr. Cliburn.

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#2040755 - 02/28/13 12:50 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
It broke my heart to hear this. It's the end of an era. Cliburn was my favorite pianist, particularly for his Rachmaninoff... no one else has that incredible singing voice.

Best Rach 3 and 2nd sonata ever recorded.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2040799 - 02/28/13 01:58 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Peter K. Mose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 1337
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
American music critic B.H. Haggin forever maintained that Van Cliburn was an exceptional pianist who was maligned by US critics. It may indeed have been the generally unfavorable reception of US music critics which kept Cliburn away from the concert stage for much of his career.

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#2040834 - 02/28/13 03:03 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
jdhampton924 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 1009
Loc: Evansville, Indiana
Me and a very close friend of mine, a second mother of sorts, met over Van Cliburn's recording when we started talking about them. Last night for a time we talked about him again, both of us getting emotional.

Many things already been said, all I can say(never getting to see him live, probably because of my youth) I am thankful for the recordings I have heard.

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#2040991 - 02/28/13 07:21 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Brendan]
Emanuel Ravelli Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 685
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: Brendan
Awful! frown

This performance has always been my benchmark for the piece:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apNTq-Tgf4w

RIP, Maestro.


I agree. This link is to a genuine landmark in music history -- Cliburn's performance of the Rachmaninoff 3rd in the 1958 finals of the Tchaikovsky competition. If you'd like to get the whole performance in a single link instead of 5 parts, you can find it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulE4KlRpIpU

His playing in the Carnegie Hall performance shortly after his return to the US is better in many respects (especially in the first movement cadenza). But I'm not sure there has ever been a more musically perfect performance of the second movement than this Moscow recording. And the finale is truly hair-raising. The ovation after his performance is incredible – the high honor of rhythmic applause, Cliburn giving his first set of bouquets to Kondrashin to thank him and the orchestra for their superb accompaniment, and the pure joy on his face when an audience member presented him with a balalaika. I love the recordings of this great work by Volodos, Gilels, Andsnes and Sokolov, but this will always be the summit for me.

Van Cliburn inspired me to keep on with the piano at an age when I'd rather have been playing sandlot football. Fifty years later, I'm still at it. I first heard him live at Washington's Constitution Hall in 1962. It was my first encounter with Brahms Op. 118 No. 2, which he played to perfection. I heard him play the Tchaikovsky at Wolf Trap -- rocky at spots, but still majestic. I met him briefly when I attended the 8th Cliburn competition in 1989. He was warm and gracious and seemed geneuinely interested in hearing what others had to say (or in my case stammer). My last encounter was at a Kennedy Center benefit for the Humane Society. As he often did, he opened with Rachmaninoff's transcription of the Star Spangled Banner and some charming remarks about the importance of animal companionship and musical arts in a civilized society. He gave a truly awful rendition of the Brahms B minor Rhapsody, then played Chopin's 4th Ballade to near perfection. Go figure.

I've been listening to his recordings all day. The world is a better place because he passed through it.



Edited by Emanuel Ravelli (02/28/13 07:23 PM)
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#2041252 - 03/01/13 09:01 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Copake Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 255
Loc: Columbia/Westchester Counties ...
The New York Times posted this great photograph of the teen-aged Van Cliburn playing a duet with an even younger James Levine at Marlboro.

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#2041564 - 03/01/13 07:01 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Louis Podesta Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 705
Kreisler:

Enclosed is my published comment from today's NY Times. Their chief music critic, Anthony Tommasini, unlike anyone else who has commented on my writings, has spoken to me personally about my "Classical Piano News Story." He found it "too detailed for his newspaper." His book is on the modern composer Virgil Thompson. Therefore, I understand his reticence to publish my news story.

Nevertheless, I enclose for you my published NY Times comment on Anthony Tommasini's obituary regarding Van Cliburn. I encourage you to go to http://www.nytimes.com and in the box in the upper left hand corner type the words "van clilburn." It will pull up Mr. Tommasini's piece along with hundreds of other comments, mostly relating to what happened to them forty years ago.

"LHP San Antonio

As a classical pianist and sometime critic, I can tell you with all certainty that there were music critics who were ordered by their editors to give Van Cliburn a pass, when he gave a sub-par performance. In defense of Anthony Tommasini, that can never be said about him nor his predecessor Harold Schonberg. Harvey Lavan Cliburn was a huge talent in the 1960's and 70's. Yet, in the last 25 years, he gave many a bad performance, and charged ticket prices higher than the Rolling Stones. He would charge $200 for a basic ticket, and an extra $100 for attending the following reception, at which, as can be gleaned from all the comments here, he obviously excelled. However, it is glaring by its omission that not one major symphony conductor in the world has stepped forward to praise Mr. Cliburn for their experience and their orchestra's experience with him. Why? Because the man was notorious for cancelling at the last minute, often without time to find a replacement. And, when he did show up, he was ill prepared as was the case a few years back with the Corpus Christi Symphony. As Tony Tommasini knows, who has two music degrees from Yale and a doctorate from Boston Universtiy, each and every time you walk out on that stage you are expected to be prepared and to give it your all. That is for your audience, and most importantly for the music. For over the last two decades, Van Cliburn chose not to honor that long held tradition."

Thank you "derulux" and please share with us what you paid for the ticket to hear the most famous pianist on the planet give a sub-par performance. Earl Wild recorded all of the Rachmaninoff Piano Concertos in one week, when he was 56 years old and teaching full-time at Eastman. He recorded the Beethoven Hammerklavier when he was 76. What is the difference? Please reference the last two sentences of my NY Times comment.

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#2041587 - 03/01/13 07:52 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Louis Podesta]
Mark_C Online   content
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Louis, you are a sourpuss. smile

You are proud of that comment. You should be ashamed of it.

Besides that I disagree with the gist of it, I can tell you that this wasn't the time to say such a thing even if it were fair. Perhaps you'll want to say that you just believe in telling it like it is -- but, judging from other posts of yours, if that's your wish, you don't do the greatest job of it, and when your frank errors or misunderstandings are pointed out, you run away from it. You have agendas and you're in love with them, and you seem to care about little else.

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#2041607 - 03/01/13 09:28 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Mark_C]
Emanuel Ravelli Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Louis, you are a sourpuss. smile

You are proud of that comment. You should be ashamed of it.


Well said, Mark. I'll grant that Cliburn was capable of bad performances in his later years. As noted in my earlier post on this thread, I heard one of them. But I have no idea where Louis' comment about exorbitant ticket prices comes from. At the Humane Society benefit recital I attended several years ago -- a benefit, where ticket prices are usually well above the usual standard -- my memory tells me I paid no more than $50 or $75 for the ticket. It's inconceivable that anyone who was as generous with his time and talent toward other musicians as Cliburn was would be sitting in his counting house smirking as he tallied up his evening's inflated take.

In any case, this is not the time for such criticism. For at least a decent interval after Van's passing, we should be focusing on his many great contributions to the world of music. Louis and his fellow nay-sayers should be patient -- and quiet -- for a while.
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#2041625 - 03/01/13 10:30 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Emanuel Ravelli]
gooddog Offline
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Originally Posted By: Emanuel Ravelli
In any case, this is not the time for such criticism. For at least a decent interval after Van's passing, we should be focusing on his many great contributions to the world of music. Louis and his fellow nay-sayers should be patient -- and quiet -- for a while.
I heartily agree. I've heard many comments about his decline but this is not the time to discuss them.

I was very excited to hear him perform in Seattle just a few years ago. He was warm and extremely gracious to the enthusiastic audience.

For those of you who were not yet born, or old enough to be aware, the man uplifted our entire country during a frightening time in the Cold War. You may not remember the Cuban missile crisis or atomic bomb drills in school but the late '50's and early '60's was a scary time when dialogue between the heavily armed U.S.S.R. and heavily armed U.S. was strained to the breaking point. I was one little girl among many, sitting cross legged on the school hallway floor, against the wall, burying my head in my arms to "protect" myself from an incoming ICBM. It was a grim time. Van Cliburn won the Tchaikovsky and suddenly it seemed possible that the world might not end in a nuclear conflagration. I'm not saying this lightly.

Van Cliburn was an inspiration to young pianists and he represented hope of world peace. He was a hero. That, my dear, is an enviable legacy. I had hoped to meet him in 2015 and sorely regret not having the chance. Rest in peace Van.
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#2041636 - 03/01/13 11:16 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Louis Podesta]
Orange Soda King Offline
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Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
Kreisler:

Enclosed is my published comment from today's NY Times. Their chief music critic, Anthony Tommasini, unlike anyone else who has commented on my writings, has spoken to me personally about my "Classical Piano News Story." He found it "too detailed for his newspaper." His book is on the modern composer Virgil Thompson. Therefore, I understand his reticence to publish my news story.

Nevertheless, I enclose for you my published NY Times comment on Anthony Tommasini's obituary regarding Van Cliburn. I encourage you to go to http://www.nytimes.com and in the box in the upper left hand corner type the words "van clilburn." It will pull up Mr. Tommasini's piece along with hundreds of other comments, mostly relating to what happened to them forty years ago.

"LHP San Antonio

As a classical pianist and sometime critic, I can tell you with all certainty that there were music critics who were ordered by their editors to give Van Cliburn a pass, when he gave a sub-par performance. In defense of Anthony Tommasini, that can never be said about him nor his predecessor Harold Schonberg. Harvey Lavan Cliburn was a huge talent in the 1960's and 70's. Yet, in the last 25 years, he gave many a bad performance, and charged ticket prices higher than the Rolling Stones. He would charge $200 for a basic ticket, and an extra $100 for attending the following reception, at which, as can be gleaned from all the comments here, he obviously excelled. However, it is glaring by its omission that not one major symphony conductor in the world has stepped forward to praise Mr. Cliburn for their experience and their orchestra's experience with him. Why? Because the man was notorious for cancelling at the last minute, often without time to find a replacement. And, when he did show up, he was ill prepared as was the case a few years back with the Corpus Christi Symphony. As Tony Tommasini knows, who has two music degrees from Yale and a doctorate from Boston Universtiy, each and every time you walk out on that stage you are expected to be prepared and to give it your all. That is for your audience, and most importantly for the music. For over the last two decades, Van Cliburn chose not to honor that long held tradition."


Excuse me?? If that's true, then that is unfortunate, but the man was still a great pianist and very important to classical music in America and he just passed away. Give the guy a little respect.

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#2041649 - 03/02/13 12:03 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Jeff Clef Offline
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Thank you, Deborah. I was thinking of the very same things you wrote about (and which everyone worried about) during that time of the Cold War. Cliburn created a very serious breakthrough, in the most unexpected and amazing way. This is food for contemplation.

Louis Podesta, I feel very sorry--- for you--- that this anger is on your soul, and that you can't tell why, at a time of funeral, remembrance, a time to give the departed a good send-off, and to console those who are grieved (especially after so dreadful a disease as bone cancer)... it's the wrong time to ventilate your resentments. I think of the old saying, that goes, "If you want to be really, really miserable, try thinking only of yourself."

If you can't think of some of the many good things the deceased has done, things that will help others long after his time... then at least put a cork in it for a few months. No one wants to hear it now.
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#2041652 - 03/02/13 12:14 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
argerichfan Online   sick
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Googling Cliburn today, I was led to an independent Baptist web site which was very honest about his sexuality.

Of major interest:

Cliburn was also Broadway’s [Broadway Baptist Church] most famous gay member, though little was said about his private life except for a palimony lawsuit brought against him in 1996 that was eventually dismissed. In 2009, the Southern Baptist Convention revoked the church’s membership after an unprecedented investigation by SBC leaders into whether media reports about the congregation’s inclusiveness placed it in violation of a policy banning churches that "act to affirm, approve or endorse homosexual behavior."

SBC, American Neanderthals.
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#2041654 - 03/02/13 12:23 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Louis Podesta Offline
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For now, I have to get some sleep, so I can get up tomorrow at the age of 61 and practice four to five hours, just like I do every day. (Unlike Van Cliburn who was doing other things until 3 AM in the morning, besides practicing!)

Suffice it say, what you know, and don't know about Mr. Cliburn is what his press agents wanted you to know. And, they obviously did their jobs extremely well.

More tomorrow about a man (not a god) who was a great pianist forty years ago!

"$50 to $75 a ticket," - I paid $7.50 to hear Claudio Arrau play the Beethoven Op. 111 and the Schumann Symphonic Etudes. And, do you know what? He wasn't great and at the end everybody just got up and walked out, without an encore. Go figure.

I know a former IRS agent who audited one of Cliburn's promoters. You all don't even have a clue. His base fee for a recital in the mid 1970's was $50,000 plus 65% of the gross ticket sales. That was when the aforementioned Mr. Arrau was getting $5,000 to play with orchestra.

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#2041670 - 03/02/13 01:15 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Louis Podesta]
Mark_C Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
....More tomorrow....

Please spare us.
If you must, maybe start your own thread about it rather than sullying this one.

Quote:
....You all don't even have a clue.

Of course not.

A few people thought I was being hard on you on the other threads. I wasn't. It just wasn't so blatant what you were about and so others were willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Now you've made it plain for all to see. Good job.

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#2041693 - 03/02/13 03:11 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Michael Sayers Offline
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Van Cliburn was one of those pianists who really listened to and cultivated piano tone and its projection, and the live recordings I've heard show a finely hewn technique.

Even if the later performances are erratic - and I haven't heard a recording of this so I can't have any observations upon it - Van Cliburn set one of the highest standards in the 20th century for who and what a pianist can be.

Maybe there is envy in some posts in this thread toward Van's success rather than gratefulness for who he was and what he accomplished?


Mvh,
Michael

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#2041775 - 03/02/13 09:39 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Louis, just shut up - you are the most disrespectful poster I've come across here.

YOU criticize Cliburn?????? With YOUR pianistic "skills"??
Hahahahahaha you've got to be JOKING me!


Do us all a favour and leave PW.


Edited by Pogorelich. (03/02/13 11:34 AM)
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#2041778 - 03/02/13 09:42 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
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Yes, Cliburn could've had a better career but unfortunately he was very disorganized sometimes. He'd often mix up concert programs and practice the wrong program.

This is not the time to give him helll for this. The man was INCREDIBLE in his young years, and anyone with a grain of a good ear can hear that. Clearly you cant.

Go away.
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#2041808 - 03/02/13 11:10 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Michael Sayers Offline
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I think it is time for a bit of the peaceful and accepting Swedish lagom here.

I don't have anything personal against Louis Pedesta who very well might be a pleasure to meet or know in person - and I would be interested to hear his piano playing.

He isn't crucifying Cliburn for what Cliburn believed in, just noting inconsistencies or anomalies in the outward manifestation.


Mvh,
Michael

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#2041811 - 03/02/13 11:14 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Michael Sayers]
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Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
....He isn't crucifying Cliburn for what Cliburn believed in, just noting inconsistencies or anomalies in the outward manifestation.

An awfully charitable take.

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#2041820 - 03/02/13 11:32 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Pogorelich. Offline
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I don't care why he's doing it, this is not the time or the place.


Edited by Pogorelich. (03/02/13 11:33 AM)
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#2041822 - 03/02/13 11:34 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: gooddog]
PattyP Offline
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Originally Posted By: gooddog
Originally Posted By: Emanuel Ravelli
In any case, this is not the time for such criticism. For at least a decent interval after Van's passing, we should be focusing on his many great contributions to the world of music. Louis and his fellow nay-sayers should be patient -- and quiet -- for a while.
I heartily agree. I've heard many comments about his decline but this is not the time to discuss them.

I was very excited to hear him perform in Seattle just a few years ago. He was warm and extremely gracious to the enthusiastic audience.

For those of you who were not yet born, or old enough to be aware, the man uplifted our entire country during a frightening time in the Cold War. You may not remember the Cuban missile crisis or atomic bomb drills in school but the late '50's and early '60's was a scary time when dialogue between the heavily armed Russia and heavily armed U.S. was strained to the breaking point. I was one little girl among many sitting cross legged on the school hallway floor, against the wall, burying my head in my arms to "protect" myself from an incoming ICBM. It was a grim time. Van Cliburn won the Tchaikovsky and suddenly it seemed possible that the world might not end. I'm not saying this lightly.

Van Cliburn was an inspiration to young pianists and he represented hope of world peace. He was a hero. That, my dear, is an enviable legacy. I had hoped to meet in him 2015 and sorely regret not having the chance. Rest in peace Van.


Brava, gooddog! Great post.

I was too young to know about Mr. Cliburn's Tchaikovsky win in Russia at the time, but I do remember the nuclear-bomb-attack drills at school in the early 60s. Mr. Cliburn's accomplishment that day must have been like a salve on a burn to two sorely hurting nations and their people.
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#2041829 - 03/02/13 12:01 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Michael Sayers]
Louis Podesta Offline
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Michael Sayers:

Thank your for your kind words, and yes I noticed that you also use your full name.

What I am saying is that every time I sit down at the piano, it does not matter how good or bad I was the day before. What matters is the level of quality I strive to put out today, all in the name of one thing and one thing only - the music.

Van Cliburn made very beautiful music in his youth and all of the accolades afforded him were justly earned.

However, unlike Earl Wild who played a 2 1/2 hour recital at a Carnegie Hall on his 90th birthday, or Mieczyslaw Horszowski who played a full recital when he was 98, Van Cliburn essentially "coasted" for the last thirty years. And, in the process, he got paid a whole lot of money for it.

Unlike Wild, Horszowski, Brendel, Arrau, Horowitz, de Larrocha, or Abbey Simon, he recorded nothing since the mid 1970's and rarely performed. Wild and Horszowski also actively taught or gave Master Classes until shortly before their deaths, and Abbey Simon continues to do so today.

Mr. Cliburn, instead, enjoyed his celebrity status to the hilt, without giving much of anything back, as regards THE MUSIC! Giving the rare (not in "top form") performance, or showing up every four years to hand out gold medals, is not exactly my idea of making high quality music, which is exactly what he did in his early years.

That is why along with not one major symphony conductor issuing a press release expressing sadness over this death, not one world reknown concert pianist, or one major music school or conservatory has done so either. They knew the score, and so do I.

Thanks once again for your civil discourse, and I list the link from my original thread, which shows a small snippet of my playing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VPgg3armCI

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#2041832 - 03/02/13 12:09 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Oh and I suppose you knew him personally to make sch claims? You don't know anything about the circumstances.

And YOU or your playing don't have anything to do with it; I really don't understand why you bring them up. Are you comparing yourself to Cliburn? If so, that is laughable. What he accomplished in the years he played is more valuable than what most pianists today will ever do so.

Cliburn cared about and loved music more than most people can imagine....... you can just hear it in his playing right away, and once you talk to him you understand. Or should understand.

Yes, his career became a little quiet. So what? After the competition, he was bombarded with concerts - can YOU imagine playing more than 200 concerts a year? He became burnt out. And often in the years after that, because of his lack of organization, yes, sometimes he would be unprepared for recitals/concerts.

That doesn't diminish what he had accomplished and the level or artistry he demonstrated, which is so precious and so special that I cannot believe you are opening your mouth to criticize him. Give it a rest, show some respect............. go. away.


Edited by Pogorelich. (03/02/13 12:55 PM)
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#2041857 - 03/02/13 01:17 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Louis Podesta]
Michael Sayers Offline
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Hi Louis,

You are entirely correct in the video. Here is a little Brahms for you that includes some significant breaking of hands/voices:

http://michaelsayers.com/mp3/Michael_Sayers_Brahms_Op_118_No_2_excerpt.mp3

Maybe Van Cliburn was more in love with the music than with being a pianist and always having to do things to please others?

I owe you an apology re. my first post in response to your posts. I don't think you are envious, just disappointed in the long term trajectory of Van's career and activities.

He had a right though to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in his own way as I see it.


Mvh,
Michael


Edited by Michael Sayers (03/02/13 01:39 PM)

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#2041880 - 03/02/13 02:26 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Pogorelich. Offline
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We are all a bit disappointed, I mean can you imagine how much more we could've heard from him.....

I just don't agree with bashing him.
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#2041944 - 03/02/13 04:51 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Michael Sayers]
Louis Podesta Offline
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Michael Sayers:

Thank you for your kind, inciteful, and most of all respectful words.

Enclosed for you and all to read is John von Rhein's Van Cliburn obituary article. He is the classical music critic for the Chicago Tribune, and he and I have conferred over the last two months on my news story.

John has been with the Tribune for over 32 years, which makes him the senior classical music critic in the nation. And, for the record, I just read this about two hours ago for the first time.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-...erican-pianists

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#2041959 - 03/02/13 05:22 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Louis Podesta]
Entheo Offline
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Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
For now, I have to get some sleep, so I can get up tomorrow at the age of 61 and practice four to five hours, just like I do every day. (Unlike Van Cliburn who was doing other things until 3 AM in the morning, besides practicing!)


let's hope your other keyboard exhibits more decorum than the one you are using here.


Edited by Entheo (03/03/13 08:54 AM)
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#2041969 - 03/02/13 05:51 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Louis Podesta]
carey Offline
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Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta


Enclosed for you and all to read is John von Rhein's Van Cliburn obituary article. He is the classical music critic for the Chicago Tribune, and he and I have conferred over the last two months on my news story.

John has been with the Tribune for over 32 years, which makes him the senior classical music critic in the nation. And, for the record, I just read this about two hours ago for the first time.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-...erican-pianists


Louis - The article seems accurate and fair. What's your point???
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#2042013 - 03/02/13 07:40 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
argerichfan Online   sick
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Just watched the 3rd movement of Cliburn's Tchaikovsky from Russia, Kondrashin conducting.



Incredible. Having been raised with Argerich's quicksilver tempos, at first Cliburn felt a mite bit slow, but I quickly adjusted. Both of these sovereign musicians confront this ball-busting concerto head-on, and take no prisoners.

I am too young to have heard Cliburn live, but he must have been an absolute treasure, good night dearest.
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#2042032 - 03/02/13 09:00 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: carey]
Mark_C Online   content
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Originally Posted By: carey
Louis - The article seems accurate and fair. What's your point???

He doesn't answer stuff like that. smile

Check out his Schumann threads. They're a treat. (His more famous threads are also a treat in their own way, I suppose.)

Michael: You're giving him way too much of a break.

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#2042057 - 03/02/13 10:36 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Entheo]
Kuanpiano Offline
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Cliburn was a fantastic musician, pianist, and ambassador for music. There have been a lot of unfair complaints about him being tossed around in this thread, but his is a legacy which will outlast the naysayers...who are increasingly losing credibility around here.


Edited by Kuanpiano (03/02/13 10:38 PM)
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#2042088 - 03/03/13 12:07 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: carey]
Louis Podesta Offline
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carey:

Thank you for your comments. Enclosed for your perusal are the combined reviews of Anthony Tommsasni, NY Times Senior Classical Music Critic, and John von Rein, the Classical Music Critic for the Chicago Tribune.

Some of us can read between the lines and some of us cannot. You do not live in the world of professional musical performance, and they do.

Thanks to my late piano teacher, I was taught in the early 1970's about the technical aspects of the classical music business. And, unfortunately, this is what most piano majors were not.

Now, practically every music major in the nation at any accredited college music school is encouraged (by their faculty advisor) to have a second minor in a non-music field such as business or accounting.

Why did Clibrun try to re-invigorate his career with the "Moscow Symphony Orchestra?" Because anyone with knowledge of the "business" knows that they are basically a pick-up band of contract musicians. And also, no American conductor would have anything to do with him based on numerous prior bad acts of sudden cancellation and erratic behavior.

What is the difference, and what has always been the point? The point is, and should always be, is that one learns their music, shows up on time for rehearsal, and then busts their rear end to make great beautiful music. When he was young and his mother was still alive, that was the essence of Van Cliburn. Later on in life, that is unfortunately what he was not.

(Disorganized? When you are a millionaire, you pay people to keep you organized!)

Thank God, the same distorted situation cannot be said about most great classical pianists before, during, or after him. Base your career on that reality and not on the Cliburn myth of the last thirty years that was not.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/28/arts/music/van-cliburn-pianist-dies-at-78.html

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-...erican-pianists

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#2042094 - 03/03/13 12:31 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Louis Podesta]
Mark_C Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Louis Podesta
....Some of us can read between the lines and some of us cannot....

BTW, how come you disappeared on those threads you started about the Schumann piece, when you saw that you were just mistaken about a note that you thought wasn't being played and which you had made such a big thing about?

Not to mention about being mistaken on what such-and-such-book said about CPE Bach?

Not to mention getting the meaning of that Czerny quote completely backwards?

You have a long way to go before you can talk about "reading between the lines." It would be a good idea first to be able to hear and read just what's there. smile

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#2042102 - 03/03/13 12:46 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
DameMyra Offline
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#2042104 - 03/03/13 12:53 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Why can't he just shut up and let Cliburn rest in peace? Has he no respect, no humanity or even humility?

(I say "he" because he never responds to me. Don't blame him, though)

And yes. Cliburn was disorganized. I have direct sources and I know stories about him flying out to do a certain concerto only to have have mixed up concertos and prepared the wrong one. Stuff like that. So what? The man is gone. Appreciate what he has done, which is in incredible value to our declining society, and let the man rest in peace.

He seems to be saying that because he practices for 5 hours in the morning, what he does it of better value than Cliburn, who practiced after midnight. It's hilarious.

Of course, I too wish he kept playing but he was simply burnt out. Or had other reasons, who are WE to place blame here? Everyone that knew him always said he was an amazing human being most of all, and that should be enough for us to quit speaking ill on his account.
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#2042283 - 03/03/13 11:31 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Mark_C Online   content
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Still one of my favorite albums of anybody, and I enjoyed telling him ("I still haven't gotten over 'My Favorite Chopin'") and seeing his delight. Love the portrait too.


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#2042321 - 03/03/13 12:35 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Mark_C]
DameMyra Offline
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Loc: South Jersey
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Still one of my favorite albums of anybody, and I enjoyed telling him ("I still haven't gotten over 'My Favorite Chopin'") and seeing his delight. Love the portrait too.



+1. Had it on LP and bought it as soon as it was released as a CD.


Edited by DameMyra (03/03/13 12:35 PM)
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#2042323 - 03/03/13 12:40 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: DameMyra]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Originally Posted By: DameMyra
+1. Had it on LP and bought it as soon as it was released as a CD.

Cool!!
But I wonder what happened to the LP! cry

(Still have mine!)

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#2042328 - 03/03/13 12:51 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Mark_C Online   content
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Since it seems thankfully we've gotten back to honoring the memory of Van Cliburn....how about this great Amazon review of "My Favorite Brahms," by someone who goes by the handle "Brahms Scholar"; whoever he may be, I assume he won't mind my quoting it. Among other things, to me it captures concisely what was great about Cliburn's playing at its best.

(BTW the 'dots' are the writer's, except the real long ones.)


"Resting...now moving forward...then curling in on itself like a wave. Lightness...darkness...flowing...falling, then stopping to look down into the depths where it will finally rest, yet defiantly turning upward toward the light again.

..........This music shines forth a penetrating consciousness, only to be consumed by the quiet tranquility of an endless sleep. One hears this in the Capriccio in G Minor as well as many other pieces that begin assertively, but then suddenly grow into a deep yearning for rest.

I can't say enough good things about this CD. If this had been a complete collection of the late piano pieces, I would have to consider this a National Treasure. As I write these words I am listening to the Intermezzo in A, Op. 118 on track 7. What a wonderful way to say goodbye to the piano. What a wonderful way to say goodbye to life itself; since he was to give his life back to the universe from whence it came shortly after these pieces were composed.

When everything has been said and done. When your hopes and dreams of finding the perfect love have been laid to rest, as his must have, time becomes meaningless; and all that you have become and hope to be rests in perfect stillness and repose. This is the feeling one gets when listening to these works. It is so wonderful to see that Van Cliburn, like a true Romantic, understands this and makes no effort to crash around in these pieces in order to create a needless and unnecessary sense of excitement. All of the music here is handled with the utmost sensitivity and delicacy.........
I can't listen to this CD without getting a lump in my throat. This music is sure to stir up long forgotten emotions within you too!"

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#2042332 - 03/03/13 12:59 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Orange Soda King Offline
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Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
I have a CD of him playing the Barber piano sonata, Mozart sonata in C major K.330, and some various Debussy pieces. Absolutely brilliant.

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#2042350 - 03/03/13 01:45 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
loveschopintoomuch Offline
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Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
It hurt me terribly and personally to read such negative comments about Mr. Cliburn. I don't believe in knocking someone who might be down and out.

I believe Mr. Cliburn did suffer extreme burn-out and this affected him for the rest of his life. All he ever wanted to do was please people with his best possible performance. He went through a deep depression after his mother died and perhaps never got over it. Anyone who has ever suffered from depression knows that it can play havoc with one's mind and also one's physical abilities. And it is almost impossible to recover from.

He was a shy and gentle person and, as so often happens, he was crushed by the demands made upon him. Just watching that clip of his playing, so young and so full of still greater promise, it brought tears to my eyes.

Rest in peace, dear soul. And please, please let him do so.
Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#2042358 - 03/03/13 02:05 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Ian_G Offline
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Registered: 05/07/10
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#2042477 - 03/03/13 06:21 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Hank Drake Offline
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Registered: 05/31/01
Posts: 1659
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
_________________________
Hank Drake

The composers want performers be imaginative, in the direction of their thinking--not just robots, who execute orders.
George Szell

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#2042484 - 03/03/13 06:30 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Hank Drake]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19736
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Hank Drake

Hank -- thanks for posting it. Need I say, "Two cents" is an extremely modest valuation. ha

I wish that everyone who looks at this thread will read your piece.

It takes restraint for me not to copy/paste the entire text. Let me know if you'd like me to do that. For now I'll just show this, which for your sake I was a little sorry to see:

Quote:
Those who were lucky enough to hear him in person (I wasn’t)....

I did have the pleasure of hearing him twice, including once when I had the chance to speak with him afterwards, well before having the better chances in Fort Worth which were such a dream come true.


Edited by Mark_C (03/03/13 06:34 PM)

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#2042521 - 03/03/13 07:36 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Hank Drake]
argerichfan Online   sick
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8858
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Hank Drake
My two cents...

Well more than two cents, many thanks.
_________________________
Jason

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#2042549 - 03/03/13 08:43 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Orange Soda King]
Damon Offline
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Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6114
Loc: St. Louis area
I have a quadrophonic 8-track cassette of him playing the Tchaikovsky. smile
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#2042552 - 03/03/13 08:47 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Damon]
argerichfan Online   sick
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8858
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Damon
I have a quadrophonic 8-track cassette of him playing the Tchaikovsky. smile

That goes back in time...
_________________________
Jason

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#2042557 - 03/03/13 08:55 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: argerichfan]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19736
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Damon
I have a quadrophonic 8-track cassette of him playing the Tchaikovsky. smile

That goes back in time...

What it takes me back to is the Beavis and Butt-head episode where they thought Van Driessen asked them to "watch" his "irreplaceable collection of 8-track tapes" -- and so they try to hammer them into the VCR player, to "watch" them. grin

I think 8-track had about 16 minutes of fame. I never had it, and I'm not sure if anybody I knew did. I've wondered what was good about it, and, if there really was something to it, why it failed so quickly. But I digress. smile

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#2042569 - 03/03/13 09:19 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Mark_C]
Damon Offline
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Registered: 09/22/06
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Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Mark_C

I think 8-track had about 16 minutes of fame. I never had it, and I'm not sure if anybody I knew did. I've wondered what was good about it, and, if there really was something to it, why it failed so quickly.


What was good: It was portable. You couldn't play a record in your car.

Short-lived? They lasted until a smaller, better format came out.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#2042571 - 03/03/13 09:22 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Damon]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19736
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Damon
Short-lived? They lasted until a smaller better format came out.

Do you mean cassettes?
If so, weren't they around before 8-track? I had a cassette player-recorder in the mid-'60's, and I didn't think 8-tracks came out (or at least weren't widespread) till later.
Do you mean CD's? I thought 8-track bit the dust well before CD arrived.

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#2042580 - 03/03/13 09:43 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Mark_C]
Damon Offline
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Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6114
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Damon
Short-lived? They lasted until a smaller better format came out.

Do you mean cassettes?
If so, weren't they around before 8-track? I had a cassette player-recorder in the mid-'60's, and I didn't think 8-track came out (or at least weren't widespread) till later.
Do you mean CD's? I thought 8-track bit the dust well before CD arrived.


I never saw a cassette until the mid-70's. I suppose you folks on the coasts had to pay the development costs before it trickled down to us poor folk in the mid-west. Radio Shack was still selling 8 track cassette recorders in 1982. I think "quadrophonic" only lasted a couple of days, though.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#2042582 - 03/03/13 09:50 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
argerichfan Online   sick
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Registered: 11/15/06
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Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Old guys, Mark and Damon. wink

When I was growing up I momentarily wondered how my mum's Jefferson Airplane, Doors and Blues Project LPs would fit into the CD player.

This did not go over very well.
_________________________
Jason

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#2042583 - 03/03/13 09:51 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: argerichfan]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19736
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Old guys, Mark and Damon. wink

When I was growing up I momentarily wondered how my mum's Jefferson Airplane....

Being old means we had a chance to see the Jefferson Airplane in their infancy. grin
(I did!) tiki

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#2042594 - 03/03/13 10:16 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Numerian Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1075
A concert pianist's life is not judged solely by how many concerts he played, whether he showed up on time, what performance standards he maintained, whether he overcharged his audience, and at what age he retired from the stage. If that were the case, Franz Liszt, who performed on the concert stage for only a few years and then retired to play only charity concerts, would be judged a terrible failure.

You can judge a pianist's career by those standards, but the totality of a man's life is judged on much broader terms, particularly by the manner in which he affected people. At his best, Van Cliburn's playing touched people with its warmth and sincerity, and these qualities followed him throughout his life. These are the qualities people remember when they think of him, and I guess as many or more people met him and think of him for these qualities than ever heard him perform on the stage. People will remember Van Cliburn long after they have forgotten other pianists who fit Louis's more limited criteria for success as a pianist.

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#2042611 - 03/03/13 11:03 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Numerian]
gooddog Offline
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Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4793
Loc: Seattle area, WA
Originally Posted By: Numerian
the totality of a man's life is judged on much broader terms, particularly by the manner in which he affected people. At his best, Van Cliburn's playing touched people with its warmth and sincerity, and these qualities followed him throughout his life. These are the qualities people remember when they think of him, and I guess as many or more people met him and think of him for these qualities than ever heard him perform on the stage. People will remember Van Cliburn long after they have forgotten other pianists who fit Louis's more limited criteria for success as a pianist.
+10
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Deborah

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#2042620 - 03/03/13 11:36 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
John Pels Offline
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Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 1258
Loc: Tomball, Texas
I get such a chuckle out of this. The easiest thing to do on the planet is criticize. Truth is I could care less about any critic from any media, print or otherwise. To me they are a curiosity, nothing more and nothing less. They just happen to have the bully pulpit and that's enough to prop up their egos. My question to our sniper taking pot shots at Van, is how many lives does he think he will touch over his lifetime of criticism? I would warrant, that he won't touch one life. Van has been tried in the court of public opinion and has not been found wanting, actually quite the contrary. Van on a bad day was still light years ahead of most of us on a good day, let alone a critic. I heard Van play marvelously and terribly...even on the same program. I heard him last in the late 90's playing the Tchaikowsky at an outdoor venue, and it was a perfectly respectable rendering. Was it played at warp factor 6 like the days of his youth...maybe not, but respectable nonetheless and ticket prices at the outside event were not over $20. Plenty of artists charge outrageous fees and gate percentages, Horowitz among them. I heard him play terribly and wonderfully as well. To me he always embodied pianistic perfection on an exalted level, but plenty of performances and recordings as well, were VERY substandard. It would have been just as silly days after his passing to pass judgement in such a classless manner. I didn't have ready internet access at that time and maybe it was a blessing.

Van inspired me, and when we met him as students he was wonderful and gracious and involved. The pretentious meanderings of a jealous critic that doesn't have one tenth the talent in Van's pinky finger won't change that. The easiest job on the planet is to be a critic because no one gives a damn what you have to say except maybe a few snobby academics. No one reads it and no one cares.

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#2042761 - 03/04/13 09:25 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
From Hank's blog (I hope he doesn't mind, but it was very well written!)

Quote:
Van Cliburn passed away after a bout with bone marrow cancer. His active career as a concert pianist was all too short. Much like President Kennedy, whose term in office was cut short, the quality of his active tenure overrode its brevity. Cliburn spent the last 35 years of his life as an elder statesman of Classical Music.

I remember in the 1980s mentioning to my mother that Cliburn was turning 50; she responded “He’s already 50?” I then pointed out to my mother that she was already 51. My mother was not amused.

Cliburn was truly “America’s pianist” (even more than William Kapell) to the extent that Cliburn invariably started his domestic concerts with The Star Spangled Banner. It was as such that he returned home to a ticker-tape parade after winning the 1958 Tchaikovsky Competition in Moscow – the only such accolade ever accorded a Classical musician.

Despite Cliburn’s All-American,apple pie loving boy from Texas image, his musical training was solidly in the Russian School. It’s not for nothing that his teacher was Rosina Lhévinne, doyenne of Russian piano teachers. His playing appealed to the jurors at the Tchaikovsky Competition – particularly Sviatoslav Richter, who awarded Cliburn TENs and scored everyone else ZEROs. Eventually the situation came to the attention of Nikita Khrushchev, who asked if Cliburn was really “the best” of the lot. When Khrushchev was answered in the affirmative, he responded succinctly “Then give him the prize.” When Cliburn played Moscow Nights as an encore at his victory recital, he won the hearts of the Russian public.

In retrospect, it’s easy to forget what a coup it was for an American to win Russia’s premier musical competition during the Cold War’s height. But listening to the evidence, it’s also easy to see why he won. Cliburn had technique to burn, but never felt the need to get into a speed race – even when he played such warhorses as Rachmaninoff’s Third Concerto. Yet it’s Cliburn’s recording of that concerto which brings a lump to my throat at the final statement of the third movement’s “big tune.” Cliburn was among the most sincere of interpreters, and his example shines through in an era of growing cynicism – both in and out of music. His temperament ran warm, but not hot like Rubinstein’s and certainly not molten like Horowitz’s. In many ways, Cliburn resembled Benno Moiseiwitsch, the master of relaxed virtuosity. Also, Cliburn’s ringing sonority reminded many of Rosina Lhévinne’s husband, Josef. (Vladimir Horowitz once remarked that he and Arthur Rubinstein together couldn’t match Cliburn’s tone.) His stage demeanor was soulfully dignified and welcoming. Although he was too classy to make negative comments about other musicians, Cliburn was no doubt horrified by the face-pulling freak shows put on by the likes of Lang Lang. Cliburn’s sense of decorum wasn’t always returned – particularly when he was slapped with an unsuccessful palimony suit in the 1990s

Let’s get one thing out of the way, Cliburn was a good musician. There is a misconception, mostly centered in the Germanic circles, that one has to be a great Mozart and Beethoven interpreter to be a great musician. Nothing could be further from the truth. Much of this stems from Artur Schnabel’s statement that he limited his repertoire to music that was “better than it could be played.” As others have pointed out, Chopin’s Polonaise-Fantasie and Schumann’s Fantasy are also “better than they can be played”. Fact is, there have been plenty of pianists who turn in fine performances of various Beethoven and Mozart works – including Cliburn. (There are also plenty of pianists who have been lauded for their Beethoven, Mozart, and Schubert interpretations for no good reason.) But there are not many pianists who can hold together Chopin’s B-flat minor Sonata, let alone the Liszt sonata.

Cliburn was wise enough to know his limitations and be selective in the music he chose to present to the public. Chronologically and stylistically, Cliburn’s repertoire started with Mozart and ended with Barber’s Piano Sonata. He didn’t embrace serialism or twelve-tone because music without a “line” didn’t speak to him. Nor did he play much chamber music. Instead, he concentrated on the core Romantic solo and concerto repertoire – and he played it very well.

Cliburn was also wise enough to know when to stop. Much has been written about the decline in Cliburn’s career in the 1970s. It was a classic case of burnout: too many performances of the same prize-winning concertos with not enough time for contemplation. Cliburn’s management – and don’t underestimate the extent to which managers run the careers of Classical musicians – was too eager to cash in on the prize winner as opposed to developing his career and allowing him to grow over decades. While many know-it-alls crowed over Cliburn’s retirement, at least he knew when enough was enough. That can’t be said for many of the intellectual crowd’s pantheon of musical heroes – including Claudio Arrau and Rudolf Serkin, great artists who should have left the stage years before they did. Then there are those who shouldn’t have begun in the first place.

Cliburn attempted several comebacks, but it was never really the same. When he admonished contestants at his competitions to only engage in a performing career if it was something “you feel you HAVE to do, FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE” one could sense his warning was directed backwards in time to the man in the mirror.

Cliburn, or Vanya as he was called by the Russians who adored him, was more than just a pianist. He harkened back to an era when a musician was thought of as almost a higher form of life than we ordinary humans. Cliburn’s performance of Moscow Nights at the 1987 Reagan-Gorbachev Summit may have done more to thaw the cold war than the START Treaty.

As with Van Cliburn’s heroes and friends Horowitz and Rubinstein, his recordings will live on after him. Fortunately, his recorded legacy has been treated with respect and his complete recordings were recently reissued. But recordings can present, at best, an incomplete picture. Those who were lucky enough to hear him in person (I wasn’t) will carry the treasurable memories of an American icon.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2042776 - 03/04/13 10:10 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Pogorelich.]
griffin2417 Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 29 2012


Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 2415
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
From Hank's blog (I hope he doesn't mind, but it was very well written!)

Quote:
Van Cliburn passed away after a bout with bone marrow cancer. His active career as a concert pianist was all too short. Much like President Kennedy, whose term in office was cut short, the quality of his active tenure overrode its brevity. Cliburn spent the last 35 years of his life as an elder statesman of Classical Music.

I remember in the 1980s mentioning to my mother that Cliburn was turning 50; she responded “He’s already 50?” I then pointed out to my mother that she was already 51. My mother was not amused.

Cliburn was truly “America’s pianist” (even more than William Kapell) to the extent that Cliburn invariably started his domestic concerts with The Star Spangled Banner. It was as such that he returned home to a ticker-tape parade after winning the 1958 Tchaikovsky Competition in Moscow – the only such accolade ever accorded a Classical musician.

Despite Cliburn’s All-American,apple pie loving boy from Texas image, his musical training was solidly in the Russian School. It’s not for nothing that his teacher was Rosina Lhévinne, doyenne of Russian piano teachers. His playing appealed to the jurors at the Tchaikovsky Competition – particularly Sviatoslav Richter, who awarded Cliburn TENs and scored everyone else ZEROs. Eventually the situation came to the attention of Nikita Khrushchev, who asked if Cliburn was really “the best” of the lot. When Khrushchev was answered in the affirmative, he responded succinctly “Then give him the prize.” When Cliburn played Moscow Nights as an encore at his victory recital, he won the hearts of the Russian public.

In retrospect, it’s easy to forget what a coup it was for an American to win Russia’s premier musical competition during the Cold War’s height. But listening to the evidence, it’s also easy to see why he won. Cliburn had technique to burn, but never felt the need to get into a speed race – even when he played such warhorses as Rachmaninoff’s Third Concerto. Yet it’s Cliburn’s recording of that concerto which brings a lump to my throat at the final statement of the third movement’s “big tune.” Cliburn was among the most sincere of interpreters, and his example shines through in an era of growing cynicism – both in and out of music. His temperament ran warm, but not hot like Rubinstein’s and certainly not molten like Horowitz’s. In many ways, Cliburn resembled Benno Moiseiwitsch, the master of relaxed virtuosity. Also, Cliburn’s ringing sonority reminded many of Rosina Lhévinne’s husband, Josef. (Vladimir Horowitz once remarked that he and Arthur Rubinstein together couldn’t match Cliburn’s tone.) His stage demeanor was soulfully dignified and welcoming. Although he was too classy to make negative comments about other musicians, Cliburn was no doubt horrified by the face-pulling freak shows put on by the likes of Lang Lang. Cliburn’s sense of decorum wasn’t always returned – particularly when he was slapped with an unsuccessful palimony suit in the 1990s

Let’s get one thing out of the way, Cliburn was a good musician. There is a misconception, mostly centered in the Germanic circles, that one has to be a great Mozart and Beethoven interpreter to be a great musician. Nothing could be further from the truth. Much of this stems from Artur Schnabel’s statement that he limited his repertoire to music that was “better than it could be played.” As others have pointed out, Chopin’s Polonaise-Fantasie and Schumann’s Fantasy are also “better than they can be played”. Fact is, there have been plenty of pianists who turn in fine performances of various Beethoven and Mozart works – including Cliburn. (There are also plenty of pianists who have been lauded for their Beethoven, Mozart, and Schubert interpretations for no good reason.) But there are not many pianists who can hold together Chopin’s B-flat minor Sonata, let alone the Liszt sonata.

Cliburn was wise enough to know his limitations and be selective in the music he chose to present to the public. Chronologically and stylistically, Cliburn’s repertoire started with Mozart and ended with Barber’s Piano Sonata. He didn’t embrace serialism or twelve-tone because music without a “line” didn’t speak to him. Nor did he play much chamber music. Instead, he concentrated on the core Romantic solo and concerto repertoire – and he played it very well.

Cliburn was also wise enough to know when to stop. Much has been written about the decline in Cliburn’s career in the 1970s. It was a classic case of burnout: too many performances of the same prize-winning concertos with not enough time for contemplation. Cliburn’s management – and don’t underestimate the extent to which managers run the careers of Classical musicians – was too eager to cash in on the prize winner as opposed to developing his career and allowing him to grow over decades. While many know-it-alls crowed over Cliburn’s retirement, at least he knew when enough was enough. That can’t be said for many of the intellectual crowd’s pantheon of musical heroes – including Claudio Arrau and Rudolf Serkin, great artists who should have left the stage years before they did. Then there are those who shouldn’t have begun in the first place.

Cliburn attempted several comebacks, but it was never really the same. When he admonished contestants at his competitions to only engage in a performing career if it was something “you feel you HAVE to do, FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE” one could sense his warning was directed backwards in time to the man in the mirror.

Cliburn, or Vanya as he was called by the Russians who adored him, was more than just a pianist. He harkened back to an era when a musician was thought of as almost a higher form of life than we ordinary humans. Cliburn’s performance of Moscow Nights at the 1987 Reagan-Gorbachev Summit may have done more to thaw the cold war than the START Treaty.

As with Van Cliburn’s heroes and friends Horowitz and Rubinstein, his recordings will live on after him. Fortunately, his recorded legacy has been treated with respect and his complete recordings were recently reissued. But recordings can present, at best, an incomplete picture. Those who were lucky enough to hear him in person (I wasn’t) will carry the treasurable memories of an American icon.


thumb Thanks for posting this! Listening to Cliburn's recordings of Debussy continue to inspire and motivate me as I study some of Debussy's compositions. I love Cliburn's performance of Clair de lune.
_________________________
Carl


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#2042921 - 03/04/13 03:36 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6098
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
How terribly sad... What a loss! I was shattered when I heard the news. frown
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#2042929 - 03/04/13 03:57 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: argerichfan]
bmbutler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 226
Loc: North Carolina
Hardly.
_________________________
Bachelor of Music (church music)
Master of Church Music (organ, music education)
Piano Teacher since 1992
Church Musician since 1983

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#2043058 - 03/04/13 09:50 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
vers la flan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 141
Quote:
[The Tchaikovsky Competition] was the first international competition to be held in Moscow, and it was vital that it should be won by a Soviet pianist. But during the preliminary rounds it was Van Cliburn who played best. He was miles better than any of the others. He was talented, he played with sincerity, even if he swamped Prokofiev's Sixth Sonata with too much pedal and adopted wrong tempi in the Tchaikovsky Concerto. By giving a zero mark to all but three of the other candidates [...], I'd decided to eliminate the others and leave only him. The public had in any case fallen madly in love with Van Cliburn and they were ecstatic when he won."


--from "Sviatoslav Richter: Notebooks and Conversations."

My understanding is that the judges were instructed to score on a scale of 1-10. Richter, as noted, doled out mostly zeroes and to Cliburn, 100.

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#2043243 - 03/05/13 08:25 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: argerichfan]
bmbutler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 226
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Googling Cliburn today, I was led to an independent Baptist web site which was very honest about his sexuality.

Of major interest:

Cliburn was also Broadway’s [Broadway Baptist Church] most famous gay member, though little was said about his private life except for a palimony lawsuit brought against him in 1996 that was eventually dismissed. In 2009, the Southern Baptist Convention revoked the church’s membership after an unprecedented investigation by SBC leaders into whether media reports about the congregation’s inclusiveness placed it in violation of a policy banning churches that "act to affirm, approve or endorse homosexual behavior."

SBC, American Neanderthals.


Hardly. Just standing up for their beliefs. Always interests me how one side can call names and beat their chest for their beliefs, and then turn around and ridicule someone or some entity for doing the same.
_________________________
Bachelor of Music (church music)
Master of Church Music (organ, music education)
Piano Teacher since 1992
Church Musician since 1983

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#2044006 - 03/06/13 03:37 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
If we were, indeed, to judge a pianist's success on the number of performances and the money earned, then Chopin, himself, would have to be deemed a failure. He gave very, very few concerts and most of them were private. And, of course, he died destitude.

Of course, most people think of Chopin as a composer not a pianist, and yet he was one of the most revered pianist of his day. His playing, according to many primary sources, was magical, like none other...and that included the mighty Liszt.

It was only Schumann who first judged him a genius and soon afterward, others followed in this opinion.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#2048448 - 03/14/13 10:34 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
P I A N O piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 425
Loc: Ann Arbor, Michigan
The University Musical Society (University of Michigan) honored Van Cliburn in the very first Ford Honors Program in 1996 (I believe that was the year.) He was also had a huge presence at the Interlochen Center for the Arts. During the Ford Honors Prelude Dinner, I was lucky to meet him and I actually shook his rather large hand- we shared comments on "finger independence" exercises and that kind of thing. He encouraged me to play again. I was star struck! I will never forget it!
_________________________
Chopin, Polonaise in C sharp minor, Etude in E major;
Bach, Toccata in e minor BWV 914;
Debussy, Snow is Dancing;
Schubert, Moments Musicaux,No.4 in C Sharp Minor;
Beethoven, Sonata no. 15 in D major, op. 28 (Pastoral)
teacher: Katherine Teves Mizruchi, Ann Arbor, MI
Steinway B

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#2059008 - 04/04/13 03:11 AM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
This clip is really about Rosina Lhévinne, but it features Van talking about her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfV7Oltqih8
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#2073199 - 04/28/13 11:11 PM Re: Van Cliburn 1934-2013 [Re: Kreisler]
Joey Townley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Los Angeles
In the 80's I nearly bought tickets for his comeback when was touring with the Tch 1st on the 1st half of the concert and the Rach 3 on the 2nd half. Then he started canceling the Rach 3 and substituting various piano solos so I skipped because I really wanted to hear him do the 3rd. Does anybody have any info as to why he cancelled the Rach 3?

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