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#2039979 - 02/27/13 05:07 AM Who influenced Tatum?
JoelW Offline
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I know he was a Jazz pianist and not classical, but I thought the Pianist's Corner might be more knowledgeable nonetheless.

I'm researching some of Art Tatum's licks and runs. Was he the first to do this sort of thing? Who influenced him? Did he invent that style of piano playing?

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#2039983 - 02/27/13 05:20 AM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: JoelW]
theJourney Offline
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I would think that Art Tatum would have been influenced by the pianists of the late 1910's such as: Eubie Blake, Charles "Luckey" Roberts and James P. Johnson.

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#2040002 - 02/27/13 07:22 AM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: JoelW]
beeboss Offline
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Earl Hines.
He invented a lot of stuff himself but you can hear the evolution of some of the lines from Waller and many other players.
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#2040016 - 02/27/13 08:13 AM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: JoelW]
pianoloverus Offline
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Dick Hyman( can sound amazingly like Tatum if he wants to) and others have a whole series of Youtube videos on the technical aspects of Tatums' playing:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=art+tatum%27s+lessons&oq=art+tatum%27s+lessons&gs_l=youtube-reduced.12...7941.13560.0.16475.19.18.0.1.1.0.384.3375.6j3j4j5.18.0...0.0...1ac.1.UD9Sy3-0NbE

Check out this book available on Amazon and other places:
The Right Hand According to Tatum: A Guide to Tatum's Improvisational Techniques Plus 10 Transcribed Piano Solos by
Riccardo Scivales

Here is Dick Hyman playing like Tatum:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRgWECXLKY8

Here is the terrific classical pianist Mei Ting Sun playing Tatum:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF9v4uzR4OA


Edited by pianoloverus (02/27/13 08:37 AM)

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#2040062 - 02/27/13 09:53 AM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: pianoloverus]
Miguel Rey Online   content
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Mei Ting Not even close, more like a robot with no concept of jazz. Dick Hyman played very nice night & day difference from Ting. Playing "like Tatum" is more then just playing the notes Tatum wrote/improvised. Can anyone "play like" Horowitz? ?
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#2040069 - 02/27/13 10:11 AM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: Miguel Rey]
pianoloverus Offline
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Originally Posted By: Miguel Rey
Mei Ting Not even close, more like a robot with no concept of jazz. Dick Hyman played very nice night & day difference from Ting. Playing "like Tatum" is more then just playing the notes Tatum wrote/improvised. Can anyone "play like" Horowitz??
One should not expect a classical pianist like Mei Ting Sun to have the knowledge the jazz idiom or nuances of a very great jazz pianist like Dick Hyman who has spent at least 50 years playing jazz. That being said, I think Sun plays that piece better than many professional jazz pianists could and certainly better than most classical pianists could.


Edited by pianoloverus (02/27/13 10:34 AM)

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#2040096 - 02/27/13 11:28 AM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: JoelW]
bennevis Offline
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I've heard more than a few classical pianists let their hair down and play jazz almost to the manner born when they felt like it. And some of them aren't the usual suspects (American or French, or African-American) that one might expect.

For instance, there's Dmitri Alexeev (who was a Leeds winner and has CDs of Rachmaninoff, Medtner and Shostakovich to his credit) accompanying Barbara Hendricks in spirituals, improvising the accompaniment in true jazz style. And I heard Denis Matsuev last year on a live radio program, improvising a highly virtuosic piece, throwing in Tatum-like runs and boogie-woogie, amongst other jazz idioms, into the mix. Art Tatum frankly couldn't hold a candle to his brilliant and intricate runs, even if he's arguably more idiomatic.

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#2040164 - 02/27/13 01:33 PM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: bennevis]
beeboss Offline
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Originally Posted By: bennevis
Art Tatum frankly couldn't hold a candle to his brilliant and intricate runs, even if he's arguably more idiomatic.



Hmm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_lCL04CT_Q
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#2040168 - 02/27/13 01:39 PM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: beeboss]
landorrano Offline
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Originally Posted By: beeboss
Earl Hines.


What a pleasure, just to read this name. Earl "Fatha" Hines.

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#2040204 - 02/27/13 02:32 PM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: JoelW]
daviel Offline
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Listen to some Andre Previn and tell me he can't play jazz.
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#2040240 - 02/27/13 03:21 PM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: JoelW]
bennevis Offline
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While on the subject of classical pianists playing jazz to the manner born, how about the late, great Friedrich Gulda? (Also known for faking his own death, and playing in the buff..... wink )

http://youtu.be/hgyxtgHROxg

BTW, he also plays very classical Mozart, and powerful and virile Chopin.....

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#2040244 - 02/27/13 03:24 PM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: JoelW]
beeboss Offline
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Previn plays some pretty good jazz but to compare him to Tatum is just absurd, I am sure he would be the first to admit it. Previn tells a good story about when Tatum met Horowitz which is quite illuminating.

you can read it here if you like...

http://tatumquotes.piczo.com/

"... from Andre Previn, who told the tale of how Horowitz was dazzled when he first heard Tatum at a nightclub and took his father-in-law Toscannini to see him the next night. Tatum and Horowitz became friends...
With Hofmann, Lhevinne and Godowsky still around, Horowitz had not quite yet reached the top of the pile, and so he took to making his own finger-wrenching transcriptions, using them as his finales. Audiences had already gone wild over the "Gypsy Theme from Carmen" and, especially, his "Stars and Stripes Forever"; Horowitz was in search now for a new, more effective theme. He chose Vincent Youman's "Tea for Two". Months and months of work produced a virtuoso showpiece so knotty that it took Horowitz several months more to prepare and learn it for performance. Always the conscientious artist, he wanted first to have the opinions of those whom he respected before taking the transcription to the public; of course he asked Tatum.
Up in his apartment, Horowitz sat himself at the piano and began to pay "Tea for Two" for his Jazz counterpart. Thunder and lightening, hail and brimstone, Horowitz finished the piece and looks up immediately at Tatum with an eager set of eyes.
"What do you think?" asks the Russian.
"Very good. I enjoyed it." comes the answer. Pause. Tatum continues: "Would you like to hear my version of 'Tea for Two'?"
"Certainly I would. Go ahead."
Tatum gets up and launches into the piece that has always been one of his specialties. Horowitz' mouth drops when he hears what he hears and as soon as the Jazzman finishes:
"My God! That was fantastic! Where did you get that transcription? You must give it to me!"
"Transcription?" answers Tatum, "That was no transcription. I was just improvising!"
Horowitz liked to play "Tea for Two" for his own pleasure; but he never played it in public."
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#2040256 - 02/27/13 03:48 PM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: JoelW]
Miguel Rey Online   content
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You dont "play jazz" it plays you. I stand with my comments about Ting. Sounds like a typewriter.

pianoloverus says:
"One should not expect a classical pianist like Mei Ting Sun to have the knowledge the jazz idiom or nuances of a very great jazz pianist like Dick Hyman who has spent at least 50 years playing jazz. That being said, I think Sun plays that piece better than many professional jazz pianists could and certainly better than most classical pianists could."

Be that as it may you wont find many true "jazz pianists" trying to imitate anyone. That just wouldn't be jazz.


bennevis says:
"Art Tatum frankly couldn't hold a candle to his brilliant and intricate runs, even if he's arguably more idiomatic." -- Art Tatum was basically blind and never trained as a classical pianist as the others you mentioned. Had he done so you I would bet both pinkies that he would do more then just hold a candle.

All the comments by myself and others who really fall of deaf ears becuase we just don't carry the weight to make such critics of anyone. But...

Toscanini was once an hour late to his own performance in New York because he was stupefied listening to Tatum in a club. He said Tatum was the greatest piano player of all times.
---------------
Rachmaninov said that he understood what Tatum played, but was unable to do the same. And also 'If this man ever decides to play serious music we're all in trouble'
---------------
When a young scholar in music recognised the maestro, Arthur Rubinstein,in the murky recesses of a club, he asked "What are you doing in such a place?", Rubinstein simply answered, "Shhhh, I'm just listening to the greatest musician that ever was."
--------------
Oscar Levant tells of Gershwin finding Tatum in a Hollywood nightclub:
To George's great joy, Tatum played virtually the equivalent of Beethoven's thirty-two variations on his tune "Liza". Then George asked for more.

--------------
Finally from Andre Previn, who told the tale of how Horowitz was dazzled when he first heard Tatum at a nightclub and took his father-in-law Toscannini to see him the next night. Tatum and Horowitz became friends...

CASE CLOSED. so back to the original question. Who was Tatums influence? I'm sure there were many, including a host of great classical composers


Edited by Miguel Rey (02/27/13 03:49 PM)
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#2040269 - 02/27/13 04:04 PM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: Miguel Rey]
pianoloverus Offline
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Originally Posted By: Miguel Rey
CASE CLOSED
Almost your entire post has nothing to do with my objection to your harsh criticism of Sun. No one's claiming Sun plays this piece as well as Tatum or that Tatum wasn't sensational. But your criticism of Sun, which I find somewhat mean spirited, is only personal opinion. And my thinking is that those most quick to criticize other pianists are often nowhere near as correct as they think.


Edited by pianoloverus (02/27/13 04:22 PM)

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#2040292 - 02/27/13 04:51 PM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: JoelW]
Miguel Rey Online   content
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Didnt mean to be mean spirited but just felt inclined to comment on his not so great playing of Jazz. I would do the same if Mc Coy Tyner or Dave Brubeck had made a run at playing Lizst attempting to pass it off as classical piano.

For what it's worth I play classical music but love jazz almost just as much, just cant play it as I would like to .


Edited by Miguel Rey (02/27/13 04:54 PM)
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#2040299 - 02/27/13 05:02 PM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: JoelW]
Tim Adrianson Offline
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Registered: 08/07/10
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JoelW -- In addition to some of the sources and influences already cited, I'd probably include Teddy Wilson and Willie ("The Lion")Smith as swing and stride influences, respectively. Truth of the matter is, though, jazz pianists of that time pretty much looked upon HIM as THE extraordinary influencer -- not only in a technical, but also a musical sense. When asked what he thought of Tatum when he first heard him, the pianist Jaki Byard said something to that effect that "I was just beyond stunned -- and not just by his phenomenal technical chops, but his ability to project complicated 13th relationships and modulations across the entire keyboard so effortlessly, transforming the theme across different keys and registers at lightning speed. It would've taken me a month or so to provide the variety he accomplished in three minutes of improvisation."

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#2040311 - 02/27/13 05:16 PM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: JoelW]
Dave Horne Offline
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I had never heard of Denis Matsuev before this thread and gave a quick listen to several pieces on YouTube. He was highly influenced by Oscar according to my ears.
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#2040312 - 02/27/13 05:17 PM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: JoelW]
Miguel Rey Online   content
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Fats Waller was once playing in a night club in Harlem, and another professional pianist dropped by. When he noticed the newcomer, Waller stopped playing, stood up and said, "Ladies and gentlemen, I'm a pretty good piano player... but God just walked into this club." He was talking about Art Tatum
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#2040588 - 02/28/13 07:28 AM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: Miguel Rey]
wr Offline
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Registered: 11/23/07
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Originally Posted By: Miguel Rey

Oscar Levant tells of Gershwin finding Tatum in a Hollywood nightclub:
To George's great joy, Tatum played virtually the equivalent of Beethoven's thirty-two variations on his tune "Liza". Then George asked for more.



Oscar did have a way of telling a story...

When young, I was suitably astonished by Tatum recordings. But eventually it became clear that his bag of tricks was quite limited, and full of mannerisms and some very predictable tics. The virtuosity itself is still amazing, but as an improvisor, he is just not that interesting to me anymore. There is something rote and excessively formula-driven about it, to my ears.

Of course, it's easy to get spoiled by all the wonderful jazz improvisation that came after Tatum's era, and to make unfair comparisons. And it is easy to forget that some of the classical musicians gushing over his playing probably had fairly limited exposure to jazz improvisation at all.

But still, that virtuosity, on first encounter, in a live performance (after a drink or two on the listener's part) - holy smokes!!!! - I can easily see why people went nuts.

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#2040665 - 02/28/13 09:42 AM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: wr]
bennevis Offline
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Registered: 10/14/10
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Originally Posted By: wr


When young, I was suitably astonished by Tatum recordings. But eventually it became clear that his bag of tricks was quite limited, and full of mannerisms and some very predictable tics. The virtuosity itself is still amazing, but as an improvisor, he is just not that interesting to me anymore. There is something rote and excessively formula-driven about it, to my ears.

Of course, it's easy to get spoiled by all the wonderful jazz improvisation that came after Tatum's era, and to make unfair comparisons. And it is easy to forget that some of the classical musicians gushing over his playing probably had fairly limited exposure to jazz improvisation at all.

But still, that virtuosity, on first encounter, in a live performance (after a drink or two on the listener's part) - holy smokes!!!! - I can easily see why people went nuts.



I have to say I totally agree with you. I bought a big box of CDs containing all of Tatum's recordings over his whole career some time ago, and still haven't listened to every track - in fact, I only managed to listen to about two CDs' worth, dipping into each CD before I got bored. After one rendition of Tea for Two, you already know what to expect from what he's going to do with another 'improvisation'. And then you realize that a lot of so-called jazz improvisations contain mostly well-rehearsed formulaic patterns of runs etc, and harmonic progressions containing 'added-notes' which rapidly pall.

There is a reason why great music isn't improvised.

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#2040699 - 02/28/13 10:40 AM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: bennevis]
pianoloverus Offline
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Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: wr


When young, I was suitably astonished by Tatum recordings. But eventually it became clear that his bag of tricks was quite limited, and full of mannerisms and some very predictable tics. The virtuosity itself is still amazing, but as an improvisor, he is just not that interesting to me anymore. There is something rote and excessively formula-driven about it, to my ears.

Of course, it's easy to get spoiled by all the wonderful jazz improvisation that came after Tatum's era, and to make unfair comparisons. And it is easy to forget that some of the classical musicians gushing over his playing probably had fairly limited exposure to jazz improvisation at all.

But still, that virtuosity, on first encounter, in a live performance (after a drink or two on the listener's part) - holy smokes!!!! - I can easily see why people went nuts.



I have to say I totally agree with you. I bought a big box of CDs containing all of Tatum's recordings over his whole career some time ago, and still haven't listened to every track - in fact, I only managed to listen to about two CDs' worth, dipping into each CD before I got bored. After one rendition of Tea for Two, you already know what to expect from what he's going to do with another 'improvisation'. And then you realize that a lot of so-called jazz improvisations contain mostly well-rehearsed formulaic patterns of runs etc, and harmonic progressions containing 'added-notes' which rapidly pall.

There is a reason why great music isn't improvised.
I don't think anyone is going to say Tatum's Tea for Two improvisation is on a level of Beethoven's Symphony No.9 but I don't think that's the point. I think it goes without saying that no jazz musician is going to reinvent the wheel every time he improvises on a song and that every jazz musician has certain chord voicings or runs that he favors. How could it be otherwise? OTOH I think the greatest jazz pianists certainly include enough new ideas to make hearing their music endlessly fascinating.

I think the criticism in the quoted posts is not what the majority of listeners think when hearing Tatum or other great jazz pianists play. Tatum regularly gets voted as one of a handful of greatest jazz pianists of all time so if you don't like him or find him boring perhaps you just don't like jazz?

If Horowitz was apparently such a big fan of Tatum, perhaps he deserves a further listen? When I first heard Tatum, I found his downward arpeggiated figures too frequent but that was a long time ago. Now I find virtually every new Tatum performance I hear truly amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apkgYw7QMhU



Edited by pianoloverus (02/28/13 10:48 AM)

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#2040733 - 02/28/13 11:45 AM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: bennevis]
beeboss Offline
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Originally Posted By: bennevis


There is a reason why great music isn't improvised.




Improvisation is just composition in real time and many many of the great classical composers improvised and used those ideas as the basis of their compositions.
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#2041007 - 02/28/13 08:02 PM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: beeboss]
daviel Offline
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beeboss - thanks for the citation on Art Tatum - I was not comparing Andre Previn to Art Tatum, just adding Previn as a classical musician who plays pretty good jazz.

Do think it's possible that many of Chopin's pieces are transcriptions of his improvisations?


Edited by daviel (02/28/13 08:05 PM)
Edit Reason: chopin
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#2041021 - 02/28/13 08:39 PM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: daviel]
beeboss Offline
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Originally Posted By: daviel

Do think it's possible that many of Chopin's pieces are transcriptions of his improvisations?


Apparently according to Chopin's friend George Sand his compositions were “but a pale shadow of his improvisations”, but I guess we will never know for sure. It is certainly true that improvisation was once at the centre of being a musician and that has now been tragically lost for most. Anyway ….
you can read more about the relationship of classical composers and improvisation here if you like …

http://ericbarnhill.wordpress.com/facts-about-improvisation/
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#2041223 - 03/01/13 07:52 AM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: beeboss]
pianoloverus Offline
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Originally Posted By: beeboss
Originally Posted By: daviel

Do think it's possible that many of Chopin's pieces are transcriptions of his improvisations?


Apparently according to Chopin's friend George Sand his compositions were “but a pale shadow of his improvisations”, but I guess we will never know for sure. It is certainly true that improvisation was once at the centre of being a musician and that has now been tragically lost for most. Anyway ….
you can read more about the relationship of classical composers and improvisation here if you like …

http://ericbarnhill.wordpress.com/facts-about-improvisation/
Improvisation was more important for pianists in the 18th and 19th centuries compared to the present, but to say that it was the center(i.e. most important part) of being a musician or composer is false I think.

No one knows how well Chopin improvised although most would assume at an incredibly high level and it makes sense that some of Chopin's works were based on his improvisations. The author of the article quotes George Sand but her statement makes little sense. Firstly, what was her musical knowledge? If Chopin's compositions really "paled next to his improvisations", why didn't Chopin just write down his improvisations and use those as his finished compositions. Chopin clearly didn't feel the way Sand did, and it would probably be better to say that Chopin was a terrific improviser and leave it at that.

IMO the article you mentioned tries too hard too fit too many of the great composers into the great improvisers category. For example, I don't think anyone knows how good the improvisations of Brahms or Schubert were. If Schubert's improvisations were similar to his huge written output of tiny German dances and waltzes, they were nowhere near the level of his great works because those compositions are very minor.



Edited by pianoloverus (03/01/13 09:30 AM)

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#2041232 - 03/01/13 08:27 AM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: pianoloverus]
beeboss Offline
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Originally Posted By: pianoloverus

If Chopin's compositions really "paled next to his improvisations", why didn't Chopin just write down his improvisations and use those as his finished compositions.




Maybe he did
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#2041242 - 03/01/13 08:41 AM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: beeboss]
wr Offline
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Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7767
Originally Posted By: beeboss
Originally Posted By: daviel

Do think it's possible that many of Chopin's pieces are transcriptions of his improvisations?


Apparently according to Chopin's friend George Sand his compositions were “but a pale shadow of his improvisations”, but I guess we will never know for sure. It is certainly true that improvisation was once at the centre of being a musician and that has now been tragically lost for most. Anyway ….
you can read more about the relationship of classical composers and improvisation here if you like …

http://ericbarnhill.wordpress.com/facts-about-improvisation/


I forgot who said it, but apparently Debussy was also fantastic as an improvisor. And Sibelius, who isn't often thought of as piano-oriented, would spend hours improvising at the piano, and IIRC, would improvise wonderfully on pianos in bars when he was out drinking. I've heard that Stravinsky, too, seems to have used some form of improvisation at the keyboard to inspire his composition, but I've never heard that he did it in public. Vincent Persichetti, on the other hand, did improvise in public, and I once attended a lecture/concert of his where he asked for the audience to suggest three notes, which he arranged into a motif, and then he proceeded to improvise a full-blown sonata-allegro movement on that motif. It was mind-boggling.

Another famous public improvisor, from much further back, was Hummel, who said he preferred public improvisation to playing notated music. And, from the reports of the day, he was quite astonishing at it.

It's easy these days, having access to far more notated music than is even possible to read through in a lifetime, to forget that many famous composers have also been quite involved with improvisation, public or not. It's not their formal "product", but I think it is interesting that it has been so present in classical music all along.

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#2041257 - 03/01/13 09:21 AM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: JoelW]
bennevis Offline
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The bottom line is that improvisations can never be as good as properly composed music, carefully structured and honed and worked over. Improvisations tend to be padded out with lots of extraneous stuff: I don't want to have another dig at jazz again (because I do like some of it - as long as there's no superfluous percussion and/or bass involved), but listen to any jazz improvisation and you'll hear not just lots of padding in the form of twiddles and runs etc, with scant melodic or harmonic or even rhythmic appeal, but also lots of meandering back and forth around various harmonies.

When classical pianists improvise cadenzas, that's also exactly what they do too, albeit in a different style.

Would any classical music lover want to sit through a whole concert of classical improvisations, no matter how good the pianist is at it? (And there are many who are brilliant at it). Maybe as a one-off, or as encores, maybe even part of a concert (like Gabriela Montero does), but improvisations on the whole don't bear repeated listening.

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#2041269 - 03/01/13 10:02 AM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: JoelW]
Miguel Rey Online   content
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Posts: 285
"...but improvisations on the whole don't bear repeated listening"

And any good jazz pianist won't dare repeat an improvisation or bother to write it down. That is not Jazz, aka "Americas Classical Music"

Here's a good read:

Classical performances are almost entirely premeditated, resuscitating scores from the distant or near past; jazz insists on surprises and lives in an eternal present tense.

In classical music since the Baroque era, the composer has been exalted above all. Performers are expected to be distinctive, but only because they have different ideas on how best to realize the grand formal architecture and fine details of a composer's work. They are, with more or less humility, interpreters. And despite the efforts of living composers, most of what classical musicians interpret is from the repertory, not new work.

In jazz, the performer trumps the composer. Jazz musicians do treat some material with reverence, but they can also bring to it irony, bemusement, savage wit, irreverence or elaborate one-upmanship. Compositions are still important; whether it's Ellington or Monk or Wayne Shorter or Tin Pan Alley standards, jazz musicians prize the combination of musicianly intricacy and indelible melody. But for jazz musicians, the underlying structure is less important than what happens to it on the bandstand. To a form-minded classical listener, the typical jazz structure of theme-solos-theme may be banal. But just as Bach and Beethoven built monumental sets of variations on modest material, a great jazz improviser can turn a trivial pop ditty or a rudimentary blues into an unforgettable performance.

While classical music works toward a finished whole, jazz is about process and interaction: about the thought and reflexes involved when the saxophonist suddenly switches into double time and the drummer answers with an approving flurry of cymbal taps. Classical chamber groups, like jazz quintets, are cooperatives, but they know what notes they'll play before they step on a stage. A jazz group doesn't.
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Bechstein B c1905


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#2042201 - 03/03/13 07:36 AM Re: Who influenced Tatum? [Re: JoelW]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
oh no, not this argument again... More structure does not=better music. Go Listen to some Indian classical music.

IMO most classical people who criticize jazz like this don't really pay much attention to rhythmic aspect of jazz. How many of those great classical improvisers you guys mentioned above can improvise in odd meter and use complex polyrhythm on top of it? Can they keep time in 4/4 while the rhythm section plays in 5 or better yet a false 5/4(taking 5 16th notes and making that the new beat, and playing that over 4/4)? All those things I mentioned above really aren't that unusual in modern jazz nowdays.

I am pretty sure most classical people won't get what's happening rhythmically on something like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ5eduwP-4U

and no they aren't just playing nonsense, there is a definite relationship between the groove and melody, and the drummer is improvising with two different rhythms in mind.

Also when you say something like Classical musician X can play circles around Tatum, keep in mind that Tatum manages to get strong sense of swing feel across even in his most furious runs. With all due respect, I am not really impressed with Mei Ting or most of classical pianists attempting jazz because they are seriously lacking in groove/time/feel department. To say these people are better than Tatum is an indication of ignorance and lack of appreciation for different aspects of music outside the classical aesthetic. If you really want to understand jazz aesthetic, don't just listen to Tatum, listen to Monk and understand what makes him so brilliant.. it certainly wasn't his chops.

I have tremendous respect for classical musicians, but it really bugs me when they criticize what jazzers do without really understanding what it takes. Uri Caine's 1997 jazz tribute to Gustav Mahler received an award from the German Mahler Society, while outraging some jury members. That was 20 years ago. It's 2013 now, we should be over this nonsense by now



Edited by etcetra (03/03/13 11:10 AM)

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