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Topic Options
#2040767 - 02/28/13 01:09 PM Cut off, sent adrift...
RonTuner Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 1674
Loc: Chicagoland
The PTG is shutting down support of the original list for piano technicians; "pianotech" The archives (hopefully) will remain, but they've tried to replace the mail based list with a forum-type system that doesn't work very well for a lot of the pianotech members. Right now the archives are here:

http://mail.ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech/

A wealth of discussions going back to 1994. They can be downloaded and saved if you don't trust the PTG to protect them or keep them public.

John Delacour has set up a google group to take in the pianotech refugees - it works as a mail-list, but also has an online forum. The term "googletech" is presently being used to describe this new group. I wanted to let techs know that might not be active on that list that there is a move going on...

this came to my mailbox:
John Delacour johndelacour@gmail.com has invited you to join the pianotech
group with this message:

In view of the impending (Apr 1) demise of the PTG Pianotech mailing
list, you are cordially invited to join the Pianotech Google Group,
which, besides being a normal mailing list also has a web
interface. The group at present has already 214 migrants from the
old list.

With best wishes -

John Delacour

Here is the group's description:

This group is for discussion of matters relating to technical aspects of the
piano.

---------------------- Google Groups Information ----------------------

You can accept this invitation by clicking the following URL:

http://groups.google.com/group/pianotech...4wuyg&hl=en
_________________________
Piano/instrument technician
www.ronkoval.com
@ronkoval

my piano videos:
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=drwoodwind


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#2040985 - 02/28/13 07:15 PM Re: Cut off, sent adrift... [Re: RonTuner]
David Boyce Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 293
Loc: Scotland
The "googletech" group is shaping up very well!

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#2041794 - 03/02/13 10:15 AM Re: Cut off, sent adrift... [Re: RonTuner]
Jim Moy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 292
Loc: Fort Collins - Loveland, CO
Ron inadvertently included a URL that may appear to be a link to a subscribe-here page for the Google Group, but it was only a confirmation link for him.

The proper page for subscription is here:

http://groups.google.com/group/pianotech/subscribe

You can also subscribe via email, which is handy if you do not have (or want to use) a Google account. To do this, send a blank email here:

pianotech+subscribe@googlegroups.com

And when you receive a confirmation request email, don't click the link/button in it, simply Reply to it with no modifications to the subject or body, and that will confirm an email subscription.

This is in no way criticism of or advocating leaving PianoWorld for this new group. It's just a service announcement for those who may be members already and have not heard of its impending demise, or for anyone interested in a primarily email based list.
_________________________
Jim Moy, RPT
Moy Piano Service, LLC
Fort Collins and Loveland, Colorado
http://www.moypiano.com

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#2041833 - 03/02/13 12:11 PM Re: Cut off, sent adrift... [Re: Jim Moy]
jim ialeggio Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 729
Loc: shirley, MA
Originally Posted By: Jim Moy
This is in no way criticism of or advocating leaving PianoWorld for this new group. It's just a service announcement for those who may be members already and have not heard of its impending demise, or for anyone interested in a primarily email based list.

Jim,

Just clarifying...The syntax above is confusing...

The demise Jim is referring to is the demise of what used to be the PTG's Pianotech email listserve. Pianoworld is in fine shape and not going away.

In shutting down the listserve, the PTG has chosen to cut itself off from the expertise shared by some of the most the knowledgable people in the profession. Archives of the discussions from the last 20years will be kept, I'm told (thank goodness). I think they will be on the PTG website. However, from April 1st on, all discussions, management of the new list, and shared expertise will no longer be under the support or auspices of the PTG, but be functioning on googlegroups.

Jim Ialeggio
_________________________
Jim Ialeggio
www.grandpianosolutions.com
advanced soundboard and action redesigns
978 425-9026
Shirley Center, MA

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#2041840 - 03/02/13 12:23 PM Re: Cut off, sent adrift... [Re: RonTuner]
Silverwood Pianos Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4226
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Originally Posted By: jim ialeggio

In shutting down the listserve, the PTG has chosen to cut itself off from the expertise shared by some of the most the knowledgable people in the profession.


I was on the understanding that the PTG had developed a new web site and forum… My PTG.org or something like that; is this not the case?
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#2041850 - 03/02/13 12:59 PM Re: Cut off, sent adrift... [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
jim ialeggio Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 729
Loc: shirley, MA
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos
I was on the understanding that the PTG had developed a new web site and forum… My PTG.org or something like that; is this not the case?

Yes this is correct. However, a combination of conditions, starting with the way the site was implementated, lead to such unpleasantness over the last 2 years that a gaping wound opened and continues to fester. Leadership, instead of trying to dress and soothe the wound seems intent on rubbing salt into it, if not actively opening other wounds.

Members of the original listserve, the discussion body which, in my view, created a sharing of very specific expertise not found in any other forum anywhere, were "instructed" to move to the new web format. The nature of the website imposition and what many listserve members feel the poor design of the website, lead many of the listserve members to refuse to participate on the new website forums. The old listserve was reopened for the vocal listserve members, without any time commitment. So 2 PTG pianotech forums existed, the old listserve and the new website.

As many of the most knowledgeable techs refused to use the website forum, the website forum is and remains an underused, susbstance weak, milk-toast forum. The old listserve was reopended begrudgingly, and continued its "wild and wooly", expertise heavy, higher use ways.

Leadership chose to close down the listserve permanently, for reasons that we can only guess, since specific conversations of exec have remained unpublished. In any case, the old listserve members were told they had to go elsewhere, and one member of exec actually told us to go to forums outside of PTG. So that's what we have done, and I'm really lik'in it. The chat is becoming as active and specific expertise heavy as it was in its heyday, without the annoying, bureaucratic, creativity sapping meddling.

Jim Ialeggio



Edited by jim ialeggio (03/02/13 02:23 PM)
_________________________
Jim Ialeggio
www.grandpianosolutions.com
advanced soundboard and action redesigns
978 425-9026
Shirley Center, MA

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#2041881 - 03/02/13 02:27 PM Re: Cut off, sent adrift... [Re: RonTuner]
Silverwood Pianos Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4226
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Originally Posted By: jim ialeggio
Leadership chose to close down the listserve permanently, for reasons that we can only guess, since specific conversations of exec have remained unpublished.


Thanks for the further information about this Jim,

I presume the admin thought by shutting off one side of the equation they would boost activity in the other side, but often decisions such as this have the opposite effect than what was intended. Apparently, with this development of the new Google group, that will not assist with any increase in traffic to the new site.

In an organization that requires membership fees, members have a right to know how, why and where the monies are being spent, similar to governments having to table a budget document to taxpayers.

Members also should have a vote on the shift or some type of referendum as something like this would affect all members who participate in online chat rooms.

Also all members are funding these proposals whether they participate in online chat rooms or not.

This almost amounts to what is called taxation without representation.

It is one of the unfortunate aspects of being group members; the administration puts all funding into general revenue and the makes decisions in a top down manner which often does not reflect the wishes of the majority of paying members.

Same thing happened to the CAPT a few years ago in reverse. Some decided the Google group was not good enough so the CAPT admin developed a web forum, and now the Google group activity has been archived; available on the new web site.

Best of luck with the new group; Are technicians from all walks of life welcome to join up?
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#2041894 - 03/02/13 03:02 PM Re: Cut off, sent adrift... [Re: RonTuner]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Is not the abscence of moderation a problem on Google groups ?

The PTG forums was a very good one , as the CAUT forum, with interesting people, and discussions, but sometime the signal to noise ration was really too low to make the forum easy to read.

I will have a look at the google group.

Thanks for the information
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2041911 - 03/02/13 03:44 PM Re: Cut off, sent adrift... [Re: Olek]
David Boyce Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 293
Loc: Scotland
Dan, you ask
Quote:
Are technicians from all walks of life welcome to join up?


Most certainly!

As for questions of moderation, not a great deal is likely to be necessary - any needed input is more likely to be of a general admin nature. Considerations about this are current, and no doubt it will become apparent in time just how much admin input is required.

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#2041922 - 03/02/13 04:12 PM Re: Cut off, sent adrift... [Re: Olek]
jim ialeggio Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 729
Loc: shirley, MA
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos
Are technicians from all walks of life welcome to join up?

Absolutley, yes, seconding David B

Originally Posted By: Olek
but sometime the signal to noise ratio was really too low to make the forum easy to read.

Isaac, creativity requires noise. Squash the noise, and you squash the good ideas too. I have gotten incredible course-changing info from small posts or even single sentences unexpectedly hidden in a long string of noise. The same goes for PW where in the midst of some endless rather noisy tuning and UT conversations, bam, a post just hits me like a lightning bolt.

I find that the noise actually is a reality filter, because really good ideas make it through the noise...at least that's how my brain takes in this kind of info. My antennae are always looking for those quiet hidden gems, because they are almost always there.

Actually the noise issue is one of my big beefs with the website forum. Its all so tidy nothing gets said...feels like a marshmallow jello mold church supper.

Jim Ialeggio


Edited by jim ialeggio (03/02/13 04:14 PM)
_________________________
Jim Ialeggio
www.grandpianosolutions.com
advanced soundboard and action redesigns
978 425-9026
Shirley Center, MA

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