Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
101 registered (Anne'sson, Alan F, Anita Potter, accordeur, 30 invisible), 1457 Guests and 17 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#2041118 - 03/01/13 01:17 AM Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Does anyone have a home built or after market solution to replace/enhance the EL Cheapo music desk on the Kawai VPC-1 ?

It is supposed to be a piano based controller, but what piano has such a dysfunctional music desk?

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / Roland
The Right Mic Makes all the Difference. Piano Mics at Sweetwater

Click Here


#2041122 - 03/01/13 01:24 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9526
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: theJourney
It is supposed to be a piano based controller, but what piano has such a dysfunctional music desk?




I expect I'm going to regret asking you this, but how is the VPC1's music rest 'dysfunctional', exactly?

It's primary function is to hold musical scores, which is visible in the above image.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2041131 - 03/01/13 01:55 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Although I'm buying The VPC and it's a great instrument, I fully agree with the Journey. We discussed it before - it should have been something similar to the transparent ES7 additional stand (that come with the extra accessoiry ).

Somehow the Kawai design & development department missed this and now seems to defend the clumsy music rest at all cost ! For the stage Piano's it's fine, for a pure (classic?!) piano controller board like the VPC it should have been better. I hope for a redisigned Kawai music rest for the VPC as assecoiry somewhere in the future. Happily spend some extra on it when it comes out.

Top
#2041132 - 03/01/13 01:59 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Compare it to the music desk on an RX or a K5...
Notice the dimensions and notice the solid materials used, rather than being composed primarily of low gauge wire and thin air. Note the relative depth from the back of the keys to the front of the music desk.

This is 2013.

You need a PC to make the VPC-1 work.

Likewise, increasingly, music is something that also comes out of a PC, not a book. You print out on computer paper, whether from a site such as www.imslp.org or from whatever notational package you are using to arrange or compose your scores for whatever studio work you are doing. It is common when learning new classical pieces to make clean copies out of the Henle and take them together so you can have 4 sheets visible on the music desk. Jazz lead sheets might even be written by hand on smaller dimension pieces of loose paper.

The way pianos are played in 2013 puts higher functional requirements on the music desk that are met by Kawai's real pianos. But on the VPC-1 the music desk is woefully inadequate. It is almost identical to the kind of cheapo strapon desk that Korg delivered over a decade ago on their low end range....

The VPC-1 is supposed to be an authentic piano controller which is why it doesn't have wheels and whistles. But real pianos are played from sheets of paper and you can't play when your paper is held in a fixed position outside of the range of your bifocals -- when it isn't curling around the wire or falling through the cracks....

Top
#2041133 - 03/01/13 02:05 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: JFP]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: JFP
...I'm buying The VPC


Where are you buying yours?

Top
#2041135 - 03/01/13 02:14 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9526
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
JFP, thanks for adding a little more information.

As I believe I wrote previously, the VPC1 shares the same music rest as the MP10.

The metal wire construction is pretty strong, however I agree that its appearance isn't terribly pleasant. After market accessories such as a 'deluxe' music rest, pitchbend/modulation wheel add-on, or furniture stand are all worthwhile suggestions. However, as with any industry, proven demand must exist before development can be considered.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2041141 - 03/01/13 02:31 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Don't need pitch wheel , knobs and sliders - it's a piano. Do need a good music rest - it's a piano.

Don't know why wheels etc are dragged in the conversation . The VPC is intended as a piano controller , not full blown master keyboard, so it's fine as it is. Just the music rest is not well thought through. Kawai can either choose to ignore that, or do a mea-culpa and come up with a solution (better rest as accessoiry). I don't think it would bankrupt the company ?!

Top
#2041146 - 03/01/13 02:47 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9526
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
By 'better rest', am I correct in thinking you mean 'more attractive rest', yes?

The functionality (or dysfunctional-ity to reference theJourney's post) isn't an issue, correct?

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2041150 - 03/01/13 02:56 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
It's both. It is not completely dysfunctional, that would drag to far, but it can be better. The ES transparent stand was a far better approach in both functionality and design. I know how I disliked the stand on my MP6, music would fold, fall off and the angle wasn't quite right to put big books on. Also it lacked enough space , for example when you would like to have 3 pages in a row (it happens in classical music). On the stands of the cabinet KAWAI's it all works well, on the transparent stand too, but with the above stand its not quite right and comfortable. So , it would serve both purposes - design and functionality - to have a better stand. Mind also the angle. Very important to keep your music books and sheets at their place during use...don't know how that will be on theVPC yet.

Top
#2041151 - 03/01/13 03:01 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Kumi_27 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 33
Loc: TG, Poland
Eeee.... A wire? Had it in Roland A-33 years ago.
Dysfunctional +1

I'd buy a sheet of tinted acrylic glass and put it on front of that wire.
_________________________
Michael / GEM RP90

Top
#2041155 - 03/01/13 03:11 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kumi_27]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9526
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Kumi_27
Eeee.... A wire? Had it in Roland A-33 years ago.
Dysfunctional +1


Roland A-33:


I agree, that's horrible.

Kawai VPC1:


Not beautiful, but certainly more functional.

Originally Posted By: Kumi_27
I'd buy a sheet of tinted acrylic glass and put it on front of that wire.


Yes, that'd work.

Cheers,
James
x

_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2041156 - 03/01/13 03:13 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Kumi_27 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 33
Loc: TG, Poland
Certainly not much more, I see. Unless You're taking more wire into account smile
_________________________
Michael / GEM RP90

Top
#2041158 - 03/01/13 03:27 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 326
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Seems it's the same rest that the ES7 has, isn't it?
If so, I can tell it doesn't work either with thick books (which tend to get closed and the rest ledge can't keep them in place)or too small sheets, but other models share this lack of design, I recall seeing pics here, of some custom made solution to hold sheets.
So it's obvious that a good rest should have a closed back and a higher (a thumb or even more) frontal ledge (is ledge the word? flange, rim?). It should be broader, too.
Btw, James, in your picture you can see that right sheets are about to slip, and are too curved to be read. Maybe it's common in Japan smile
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

Top
#2041169 - 03/01/13 05:09 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
As you can see the music book in the Kawai picture rests on the surface of the VPC, instead of on the bottom of the music rest itself. An indication of it's functionality. If Kawai would pick up the challenge to design a music rest that has the same level of space and comfort as the rest of a cabinet piano that would be great. It would fly of the shelves with many happy es7 , mp6, mp10 and vpc owners as buyers. And make sure it's thoroughly tested with many different book sizes and thickness and sheets of paper. The angle is also very important for thick books and for readability . Too much upright is a problem, too far back makes it hard to read and grab to turn . So Kawai , why not just do it, instead of ignoring the valid request ?!

Top
#2041170 - 03/01/13 05:18 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kawai James]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
The functionality (or dysfunctional-ity to reference theJourney's post) isn't an issue, correct?

James
x


Why not just put your fingers in your ears and go " LA LA LA LA LA"? It would be just as productive as denial by typing here.

Top
#2041172 - 03/01/13 05:32 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: JFP]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: JFP
So Kawai , why not just do it, instead of ignoring the valid request ?!


The impression one gets is that this has nothing to do with the user, his or her needs, requests from potential customers or market research.

It has to do with what Kawai can put into the unit cheaply and/or has laying around the plant in inventory (perhaps the same factor as the choice for RM3 instead of GF?).

I just realized that the same feedback was given to Kawai regarding the music desk for the MP10 in the past...

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...20for%20Ka.html

You know you have a product design issue when customers have to implement their own hillybilly kludges to your product right out of the box...

http://whitetrashrepairs.com/


Edited by theJourney (03/01/13 05:35 AM)

Top
#2041174 - 03/01/13 05:40 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9526
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Why not just put your fingers in your ears and go " LA LA LA LA LA"? It would be just as productive as denial by typing here.


To be honest, I'm still not entirely sure what your beef is with the VPC1's music rest - or with me for that matter. I've already explained that - for one reason or another - the project team decided to use the MP10's music rest. You may not particularly like this decision, however it's unlikely to change any time soon.

Now...

Is it the best music rest ever made? No, I accept that it isn't.
Is it the most visually appealing music rest ever made? No, I accept that it isn't.
Is it better than no music rest at? Yes, I certainly believe it is.

Don't forget that most controllers and even some high-end stage pianos omit the music rest entirely - you may recall a post discussing this topic just a few days ago.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2041180 - 03/01/13 05:59 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Well, James, I have nothing against you, but I didn't send an email to Kawai and this thread is also not addressed to you...yet you are dominating the thread and posting with your Kawai "and the answer is no" hat on as if it is on the company intranet...

Since you admit that you cannot be of help to us, why not let others respond to the thread who might be able to address the question posed with their own ideas or proposed solutions.

No hard feelings, but this is supposed to be a user board, not a defensive manufacturer obfuscation board or a cheap piggyback alternative to Kawai setting up their own modern marketing and support architecture.

I appreciate your personal presence, and I am not alone, but it is important to recognize those instances when your are making a positive contribution towards the functioning of the board (and doing Kawai any good versus just digging a deeper hole) and those instances when it might be considered as counter-productive.

Thanks in advance for your understanding.

Top
#2041182 - 03/01/13 06:10 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 326
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Wow, there's an authomatized rest done yet!


http://www.pageflip.com/setup_pagefliplite.html

And it "only" costs 199 bucks. Ok Kawai and the rest, how about just putting some moveable little pieces to hold pages if desired? Come on, it's just two more inches of wire and a couple of holes. Old pianos already had it.



Edited by mabraman (03/01/13 06:16 AM)
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

Top
#2041184 - 03/01/13 06:15 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
jrcallan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 367
Loc: Pennsylvania
TheJourney:

Your Kawai bashing is getting pretty tired. If you don't like it--don't buy it. Having bought it does not entitle you to endless tirades.

Pretty uninteresting stuff.
_________________________
Baldwin M
Casio PX-330
Casio AP-45

Top
#2041187 - 03/01/13 06:24 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: theJourney
...Since you admit that you cannot be of help to us, why not let others respond to the thread who might be able to address the question posed with their own ideas or proposed solutions.


If you're worried about a good music stand. Why not buy one? Put it behind the keyboard? Problem solved.

I'm looking forward to buying the VPC. I want a keyboard. Not a music stand.

Sometimes, people sound like they expect a keyboard to be a transformer. Transforms into this and that and...in the end they got a kid's toy.
No hillbilly solution. Easy solution. I want a music stand. I buy one.

Oh gee....I'm paying all this money and I want.... You want to whine!
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

Top
#2041190 - 03/01/13 06:28 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9526
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
theJourney, if you do not believe the music rest included with the VPC1 is suitable for your needs, I would suggest an alternative from a music stand company such as K&M.

e.g.



http://produkte.k-m.de/en/Music-stands/Conductor-stands/12342-ORCHESTRA-CONDUCTOR-STAND-black

I also tried Googling 'table music rest' and found the following websites:

http://www.musicstandsalone.com/tabletopsheetmusicstands
http://www.djmmusic.com/items.asp?cc=MusicStandTT

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2041193 - 03/01/13 06:44 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: rnaple]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: rnaple
Originally Posted By: theJourney
...Since you admit that you cannot be of help to us, why not let others respond to the thread who might be able to address the question posed with their own ideas or proposed solutions.


If you're worried about a good music stand. Why not buy one? Put it behind the keyboard? Problem solved.

I'm looking forward to buying the VPC. I want a keyboard. Not a music stand.

Sometimes, people sound like they expect a keyboard to be a transformer. Transforms into this and that and...in the end they got a kid's toy.
No hillbilly solution. Easy solution. I want a music stand. I buy one.

Oh gee....I'm paying all this money and I want.... You want to whine!


Thanks for your suggestion.

I expect the Kawai VPC-1 to fulfill the function it is advertised: " A virtual (software) controller from a real piano company". Real piano companies deliver usable music stands that hold paper properly and with industry standard distances to the back of the keys c.q. to the player's eyes.

Placing a stand behind the keyboard becomes even more of a problem than mounted on the back of the keyboard....

The distance from the back of the keys to the base of the music stand on my Kawai RX-2 is adjustable from negative to about 13 centimeters and on my Roland HP-307 is about 10 centimeters.

Placing as you suggested a (standing?) floor music stand (assume an orchestra director version for required width?) behind the VPC-1 would mean a distance of greater than 30 centimeters). That is three times the distance and completely off the scale for a piano and becomes unusable for someone with reading glasses, bifocals or even normal eyes. It is a good thing the newer, deeper keyboard is not on board or you might need binoculars to see the music! smile

Top
#2041197 - 03/01/13 06:49 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: jrcallan]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: jrcallan
TheJourney:

Your Kawai bashing is getting pretty tired. If you don't like it--don't buy it. Having bought it does not entitle you to endless tirades.

Pretty uninteresting stuff.


If you find the discussion uninteresting, there are any number of threads that might interest you. There is no need to type OT remarks or to be unkind. It certainly doesn't help with brainstorming on the most optimal solutions...

Asking for workable solutions seems to be quite far removed from Kawai bashing. I don't know about you, but I have spend more than $25.000, on Kawai products and am a loyal customer.

However, lately, I must admit that Kawai has not been making it easier for me to spend more money on Kawai.

Top
#2041199 - 03/01/13 06:52 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Ok, I'm out ; didn't wat this to become a Kawai or James bashing issue. I'm sorry it got so far ! It was just a suggestion for a next generation Kawai DP or an aftermarket accessoire that would be a welcome addition to many people who are planning to actually use the stand a lot with different kinds of papers and book layouts . That's all. Hope at least it will make the requested feature list in the development team ! Over and out. Again sorry for turn in tone the thread became.

Top
#2041200 - 03/01/13 06:52 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kawai James]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
I would suggest an alternative from a music stand company such as K&M.
...
I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x


Thanks. I think what I need is something like you used to see in secretarial typing pools or like a microphone boom that I can adjust above the keyboard. Perhaps I need to put one together myself.

Top
#2041204 - 03/01/13 07:03 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: theJourney

I expect the Kawai VPC-1 to fulfill the function it is advertised: " A virtual (software) controller from a real piano company". Real piano companies deliver usable music stands that hold paper properly and with industry standard distances to the back of the keys c.q. to the player's eyes.


This is a controller keyboard from a real piano company. If you want a real piano and not a controller keyboard. Buy it!

Originally Posted By: theJourney
Placing a stand behind the keyboard becomes even more of a problem than mounted on the back of the keyboard....


Looks to me. If something else is not in the way. A music stand would put the music in about the same spot as the mounted stand on the keyboard?
Besides....I know the music stand companies make stands that will put the music forward from the base of the stand.

Originally Posted By: theJourney
Placing as you suggested a (standing?) floor music stand (assume an orchestra director version for required width?) behind the VPC-1 would mean a distance of greater than 30 centimeters). That is three times the distance and completely off the scale for a piano and becomes unusable for someone with reading glasses, bifocals or even normal eyes. It is a good thing the newer, deeper keyboard is not on board or you might need binoculars to see the music! smile


Lets give you the benefit of the doubt.
I wear reading glasses because my arms get tired holding a book at arm's length just to be able to read it. Now if I make sure the music is far enough away. I can get rid of my reading glasses!
Oh gee! I forgot! I already do that! Doh!


Now I need to criticise james for his suggested stand. After all....it won't hold all my music, plus my laptop, plus my monkey who hits sticks together for timing. My monkey is very important to me. Where will he stand? Oh James....you blew it!
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

Top
#2041205 - 03/01/13 07:05 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9526
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Thanks. I think what I need is something like you used to see in secretarial typing pools or like a microphone boom that I can adjust above the keyboard. Perhaps I need to put one together myself.


How about something like this, from the same company (K&M)?



http://products.k-m.de/us/Mic-stands/Accessories/115-2-SHEET-MUSIC-AND-DOCUMENT-HOLDER-black

Or this (www.musicstandsalone.com):



Or perhaps this (www.musicstandsalone.com):



Indeed, the same website even has a shot of a custom stand on an MP9500:



Quote:
"The stationary desk was adapted to fit on this electric piano since the original wire music racks are so small."


Ah, this one from Manhasset looks ideal:



I hope this helps.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2041207 - 03/01/13 07:12 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kawai James]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: Kawai James

How about something like this, from the same company (K&M)?
I hope this helps.

Cheers,
James
x


But James....What about my monkey!!!!!??????
My monkey isn't going to be happy!!!!!????
It's all Kawai's fault!!!!!
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

Top
#2041208 - 03/01/13 07:13 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kawai James]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Kawai James

How about something like this, from the same company (K&M)?


I hope this helps.

Cheers,
James
x


That, in an orchestral wide version, is exactly what the doctor ordered! Haven't seen any of these in stores before.

It should be able to also match the exact position of the RX-2 music stand that way.

Thank you!

Top
#2041210 - 03/01/13 07:18 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: rnaple]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: rnaple
Originally Posted By: Kawai James

How about something like this, from the same company (K&M)?
I hope this helps.

Cheers,
James
x


But James....What about my monkey!!!!!??????
My monkey isn't going to be happy!!!!!????
It's all Kawai's fault!!!!!


Very mature.
Shouldn't your Mom be getting you off to school by now?

Top
#2041220 - 03/01/13 07:46 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: theJourney

Very mature.
Shouldn't your Mom be getting you off to school by now?


They kicked me out of school. It's all Kawai's fault.
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

Top
#2041222 - 03/01/13 07:48 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9526
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Bingo!



Actually, I've got to admit... that does look pretty slick. wink
'Hard Finish' surface too!

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2041227 - 03/01/13 08:14 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kawai James]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Bingo!
Actually, I've got to admit... that does look pretty slick. wink
'Hard Finish' surface too!

James
x


Makes it look like Dolly Parton. I like the original.
Darn that thing looks classy. Without the Dolly music holder.

Oh....you forgot the miniature Empire State Building. So my monkey can act like King Kong. How about a Godzilla for him to play with? HHHhuuuummm?
Not that's an idea! James...
Kawai needs to come out with a Godzilla that bangs two sticks together. It can be the Godzilla Metronome! Straight from it's home in Japan! Kawai will sell a million of them!
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

Top
#2041245 - 03/01/13 08:51 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kawai James]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Bingo!



Actually, I've got to admit... that does look pretty slick. ;)x


Haha, perhaps it can be a bit bigger , I think it's rather small like this ;-) And I would really like to get my hands on the Godzilla metronome ; it will definitely make my playing-style better ! When is it out - can it be pre-ordered ?????


Edited by JFP (03/01/13 08:51 AM)

Top
#2041265 - 03/01/13 09:32 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands


Kawai already makes this stand. Only have to adjust the footprint (space between supporting legs). How hard can it be..., if there's a will... Still a missed opportunity IMHO.


Edited by JFP (03/01/13 09:33 AM)

Top
#2041267 - 03/01/13 09:37 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
My "music stand" is a computer monitor. Since I'm using the computer to run the VST anyway, I just scan my music and display it on the monitor.

I keep meaning to get around to mapping my soft pedal to page-down so I can flip pages without using my hands.

Back when I used paper I cut a piece of black foamboard and put it on the wire stand (my MP8 has this same music rest and I don't find it good for loose sheets, which I seem to use often). It looked pretty terrific and could hold like 6 sheets or something.

Top
#2041302 - 03/01/13 11:29 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kawai James]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3405
So many people today have their sheet music on iPads, and there are plenty of iPad stands that should work fine on top of the VPC.

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
After market accessories such as a 'deluxe' music rest, pitchbend/modulation wheel add-on, or furniture stand are all worthwhile suggestions. However, as with any industry, proven demand must exist before development can be considered.

I like the external pitch bend + mod wheel box idea. 90% of the people on this forum may not care about it, but I think that would still leave a substantial number of people who would like it. Moreover, it would be a device you could market to a much bigger group of people, not just Kawai owners. Over in another forum, people periodically complain that there's no way to add wheels to any of a myriad of keyboards people are using. Yamaha used to make the MCS2 for that purpose, but that was a long time ago. In a way, you could even use it as a stealth marketing device, to get Kawai onto the radar of many players who haven't typically looked at any Kawai products.

To go a little further out on a limb, looking at the $2500 price of an MP10 and the $1850 price of a VPC-1, I wonder if Kawai could offer a rack module with the sounds of the MP10 for under a grand? Another thing you don't find in the market anymore are pianos in rack modules. Yamaha, Roland, Kurzweil, Korg have all offered them in the past... all that's left now are the piano patches in the high-end multi-purpose Motif and Integra modules, which is not the same thing. A half-width module would be ideal (with optional full-width mount brackets), but if it can't be that small, full-width is still okay. I think the MP10 sounds really nice, and it's a shame it's not possible to gig with that sound without a 70+ pound board. I think a lot of people with boards half the weight of an MP10 (or less) might consider a reasonably priced box that would give them a much better piano sound than what most of the lightweight boards provide.

Top
#2041314 - 03/01/13 11:53 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
When tablets become more and more powerful and with bigger storage AND with more professional software synths and softare piano's , hardware modules will probably become absolete altogether. They may replace even laptops , cause a tablet is so much more compact, easy to operate and put in an ergonomically good position on the master keyboard. I think it will take a few more years to fully mature for playing music in a professional manner , but certainly not much longer.

I've followed and played with roughly all software instrument developments since the early days and toylike efforts and after initial sceptisism about quality of sound and speed of the laptops (90's remember ?) , it matured really fast and since several years laptops can be used as full blown HQ sound sources for almost every situation. I guess the same will happen with tablet based solutions. It would really provide for a much more compact , sturdy and flexible way of playing than with current laptops IMHO.

For now there are indeed too little seperate hardware boxes available, if you're reluctant to carry a laptop onstage. But I doubt there are any manufacturers still willing to invest in niche products like a piano module. Sad, but true. Only alternative option you have is buy an expensive Integra and use only 10% of the available sounds and features.

Top
#2041334 - 03/01/13 12:36 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: JFP]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3405
I agree about the potential of the tablet. But I think it may well be a few years yet before you'll be able to get...
... a tablet capable of running a high quality piano sound, rock solid and glitch free, with no noticeable latency, plus
... the audio interface, plus
... the piano software itself,
all for under a grand.

Top
#2041387 - 03/01/13 02:37 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
thercman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 147
Loc: Spokane WA, United States
Learn to play by ear then there is no need for the stand. smirk


Edited by thercman (03/01/13 02:38 PM)
_________________________
NP2, Arturia Laboratory 61

Addictive Keys, Kawai EX Pro
Heil PR-40 Mic, Allen & Heath Mixer, Yamaha HS80

Top
#2041434 - 03/01/13 03:21 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands


Both made and sold by Kawai. When your 'ear' fails you and the iPad battery is drained - which one would you prefer considering thick books , multiple sheets and 3-on a row. Really my last post on this subject, sorry to bore you all...

(Translucent one should tilt a little more upward , but no time do do extra photoshopping)


Edited by JFP (03/01/13 03:23 PM)

Top
#2041588 - 03/01/13 07:55 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: JFP]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: JFP
When tablets become more and more powerful and with bigger storage AND with more professional software synths and softare piano's , hardware modules will probably become absolete altogether. ...For now there are indeed too little seperate hardware boxes available, if you're reluctant to carry a laptop onstage. But I doubt there are any manufacturers still willing to invest in niche products like a piano module. Sad, but true. Only alternative option you have is buy an expensive Integra and use only 10% of the available sounds and features.


I don't know exactly how it is going to go. But...
My intuition tells me with the VPC, that it is going this direction.
The very first thing I expect to see is a Kawai Software Piano. Ivory? Whoever?

I don't know why people have problems going on stage with a Mac? PC I can understand...forget it.

Oh yes.... We need your votes to get James and the development team to finish the Godzilla Metronome. Not only will it look like he's hitting two sticks together. Really won't. Too expensive. He will have an adjustable tail that wags back and forth. Just like an old fashioned metronome!
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

Top
#2041590 - 03/01/13 08:07 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
adak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
Out of all the mock-up stands that are posted, the original wire one still looks the best and I don't even like the wire one too much.
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-150


Top
#2041602 - 03/01/13 09:07 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
whitfit Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 80
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I own an MP10. It is a great keyboard.

The music rest sucks.

James, I really appreciate the feedback that you give, and your responsiveness here, but I don't really understand why you are so critical of those who recognize that the MP10/VPC is not a good music rest.

I agree that other professional stage keyboards have poor or no music rests. That is not an excuse for the MP10/VPC music rest.

For me, I have some larger score books that I copy pages out of so I don't have to lug the full score book around. Those sheets curl up and don't sit properly in the MP10 rest. If I put score books or other thinner music books on the stand, you can't get much on there before they fall over, or start to curl forward.

The music rest could be significantly improved. I would pay more for a good music rest that fits the keyboard mounts. I have my MP10 against a wall, so a big music stand behind the keyboard would be a big pain.

Not everything is perfect, and I wouldn't trade my MP10 for any other stage piano. But, don't be afraid of thinking that the music rest could be improved.

Top
#2041617 - 03/01/13 09:56 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: whitfit]
fizikisto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 634
Loc: Hernando, MS
Whitfit
Very well said, +1!

And James,
I am among those who are grateful for the time you take and the knowledge you share here on this forum. For some of us, a good music rest is an essential part of our piano playing process. I think you can see that this issue of music rests inspires quite a bit of passion for some of us. That's probably because so many manufacturers of DP's include such terrible music rests (if they have any available at all). It's very frustrating. Part of the reason why it is so frustrating is that it would be such an easy thing to remedy.

You're a Nord Owner. So you're probably familiar with the music rest they offer. The Nord's music rest is a best in class product (large, sturdy, not too heavy, well designed). It's also crazy expensive, but I was happy to shut up and give them my money for it. Maybe I'm spoiled by it, but I really just can't understand why so many other manufacturers ignore that segment of the market place.

I posted on one of the other threads that the Casio PX5S was very interesting to me but that the lack of a sheet music rest was a deal breaker for me. Some people probably think i'm crazy for that, but I just don't see why I should have to compromise on something that's important to me in an instrument, no matter how trivial it might seem to others.

Now I'm glad that the VPC-1 has a music rest, and it might even be adequate. But for a flagship product like the VPC-1, merely adequate is not something to aspire for. Nonetheless, I recognize EVERY product will of course make compromises. And as you point out the VPC-1 does have a music rest. I remain very interested in the VPC-1. I'm thinking seriously about saving up to get one this summer. Despite the fact that I wish that one aspect of the product were improved, I really hope that kawai has a massive hit on their hands with the VPC1. I can tell you this though, if I do pull the trigger and get one this summer, and kawai puts out an optional "improved" music rest, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

Warm Regards
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800

Top
#2041628 - 03/01/13 10:45 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2745
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Check out Adapt-A-Stand for keyboards. It looks like it can improve the wire stand and also make it much bigger.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

Top
#2041690 - 03/02/13 02:48 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: gvfarns]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
...my MP8 has this same music rest and I don't find it good for loose sheets, which I seem to use often...


More latent market demand...

Originally Posted By: whitfit
I own an MP10. It is a great keyboard.

The music rest sucks.

James, I really appreciate the feedback that you give, and your responsiveness here, but I don't really understand why you are so critical of those who recognize that the MP10/VPC is not a good music rest.

I agree that other professional stage keyboards have poor or no music rests. That is not an excuse for the MP10/VPC music rest.

For me, I have some larger score books that I copy pages out of so I don't have to lug the full score book around. Those sheets curl up and don't sit properly in the MP10 rest. If I put score books or other thinner music books on the stand, you can't get much on there before they fall over, or start to curl forward.

The music rest could be significantly improved. I would pay more for a good music rest that fits the keyboard mounts. I have my MP10 against a wall, so a big music stand behind the keyboard would be a big pain.

Not everything is perfect, and I wouldn't trade my MP10 for any other stage piano. But, don't be afraid of thinking that the music rest could be improved.


More latent market demand.
Originally Posted By: fizikisto
For some of us, a good music rest is an essential part of our piano playing process. I think you can see that this issue of music rests inspires quite a bit of passion for some of us. That's probably because so many manufacturers of DP's include such terrible music rests (if they have any available at all). It's very frustrating. Part of the reason why it is so frustrating is that it would be such an easy thing to remedy.
...

Now I'm glad that the VPC-1 has a music rest, and it might even be adequate. ... I remain very interested in the VPC-1.... if I do pull the trigger and get one this summer, and if kawai puts out an optional "improved" music rest, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

And more...
Well said BTW.

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
After market accessories such as a 'deluxe' music rest, pitchbend/modulation wheel add-on, or furniture stand are all worthwhile suggestions. However, as with any industry, proven demand must exist before development can be considered.


It is certainly an interesting approach to marketing.

First we build something that doesn't meet market needs and when it doesn't sell then we can point to the lack of sales as a reason not to develop products that meet market needs.

Could this one elementary difference in philosophy explain the huge difference in size, success and market coverage between Yamaha and Kawai?


Edited by theJourney (03/02/13 02:52 AM)

Top
#2041691 - 03/02/13 03:02 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: PianoWorksATL]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: PianoWorksATL
Check out Adapt-A-Stand for keyboards. It looks like it can improve the wire stand and also make it much bigger.


Interesting that your pictures show the music desk where it belongs at the back of the keys rather than at the back of the (Kawai RM3 deep) keyboard on the VPC-1.

Solidity, angle, capacity and width are important.

However, positioning, depth and distance to eyes are also important.

A piece of clip on wire that is attached to the back of an historically deep keyboard rather than configured to the real-world piano playing process is just a piece of frustration-inducing wire.

From a wooden keys sporting, piano-only, virtual piano software controller from a real piano company a consumer should reasonabley be able to expect that the playing experience would be made the priority and point of departure in product design and development decisions.

Your proposed solution would work on a keyboard where the music stand is at a normal depth, but it only solves part of the problem for the VPC-1 unless there is a way to bring the distance of the music desk to the player to the same ranges of distance found on a real piano.

So, far the last solutions shown by James (before the photoshopped, oversized Kawai grand music desk) seem to be the most promising.

Top
#2041692 - 03/02/13 03:10 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: JFP]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: JFP
When tablets become more and more powerful


From the point of view of displaying scores, a tablet would have to have the following characteristics for me:

- at least A4 size but preferably the same size display as Henle urtext editions;

- a stylus that allows one to make annotations easily;

- library software to manage pdfs, versions, etc.;

- a page turning pedal or responsive touch screen;

- a mount for an adjustable stand such as suggested by James or a music desk that has the same functionality as a music desk on a real piano.

Top
#2041702 - 03/02/13 03:53 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: whitfit]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9526
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hi whitfit,

Originally Posted By: whitfit
I own an MP10. It is a great keyboard.


I'm glad to hear you enjoy it!

Originally Posted By: whitfit
The music rest sucks.


It's not the best, I agree. but it serves a purpose and is surely better than no music rest at all.

Originally Posted By: whitfit
I don't really understand why you are so critical of those who recognize that the MP10/VPC is not a good music rest.


I don't believe I have been critical of others, however my apologies if I gave that impression.

Originally Posted By: whitfit
I agree that other professional stage keyboards have poor or no music rests. That is not an excuse for the MP10/VPC music rest.


I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you suggesting it would be preferable to not include a music rest?

Originally Posted By: whitfit
For me, I have some larger score books that I copy pages out of so I don't have to lug the full score book around. Those sheets curl up and don't sit properly in the MP10 rest. If I put score books or other thinner music books on the stand, you can't get much on there before they fall over, or start to curl forward.


Okay, I take your point - larger/thicker books may not sit comfortably on the MP10 music rest.

Originally Posted By: whitfit
The music rest could be significantly improved. I would pay more for a good music rest that fits the keyboard mounts.


And I'm sure others would too. However, the question is whether the majority of consumers would be willing to pay extra. For many, the included music rest is fine, while a large number of others might never use the music rest at all. The challenge is trying to produce an instrument with the right balance between features, quality, and price.

Originally Posted By: whitfit
I have my MP10 against a wall, so a big music stand behind the keyboard would be a big pain.


Yes, I too place my keyboards beside the wall.

Originally Posted By: whitfit
Not everything is perfect, and I wouldn't trade my MP10 for any other stage piano. But, don't be afraid of thinking that the music rest could be improved.


Thank you, I appreciate your feedback. For the record, I agree that the music rest is not perfect, and could be improved. However, I also appreciate the challenges that my R&D colleagues face in realising these improvements, while still keeping everything within the allocated budget.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2041707 - 03/02/13 04:22 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Do the R&D colleagues know anything at all about feedback from buyers who are not really happy with the rest and the suggested solutions ?? Like refitting the little metal legs of the translucent stand - you already make - so they fit on the MP6/MP10/VPC and perhaps older model ?

Or is everything being discussed here and on other fora being filtered and anxiously kept from them so they are still completely ignorant and in the assumption they made the best stand in the world and everybody is happily using the stand and know nothing about the complaints and so obvious and simple solution, that might even generate some nice sales in accessories (a big margin market).

As indicated most wouldn't even care to spend some extra on extra accessories as long as they are available - so "keeping everything within budget" seems a lame excuse to me. I'm still under the impression the thought to include another stand never crossed ones mind, despite complaints about the stand on the MP10 and others in the past. However, the VPC is NOT a stage piano like the MP10 and mostly intended to sit in a studio or at home and function as a piano (!) - and a decent piano has a decent stand.

You agree the current stand is a compromise. Why not at least suggest the idea of a better stand to the R&D department and decision makers, instead of rephrasing " it's not perfect, but it is as it is and there's nothing we can do about it" ?

I thought I was done with this , but the remarks pushed me to open the subject ones more, cause I simply fail to understand why it "is as it is and can't be changed".

I understand many remarks here that state " Who needs a stand anyway. Play by the ears. Buy your own separate stand and put it behind the VPC. Stop whining ! " but

It's marketed as a Virtual Piano(!) Controller and targets mostly piano lovers who wish to couple the best keybed with the best piano software out there. Probably many classical and Jazz music players that use sheets and music books a lot. Giggers will buy another stage model or an MP10 and in that situation the stand may not be needed. Putting a separate stand behind the VPC is yet another thing, makes you reach even farther over the piano and readability much harder and in many situations - studio desk / against the wall - is not an option.

Please don't consider this a bunch of whining , never satisfied , boring customers , but take the suggestions for improvements seriously and have R&D etc take notice. The solution seems so easy and again might generate extra sales along the line...

Top
#2041710 - 03/02/13 04:42 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: fizikisto]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9526
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hi fizikisto,

Originally Posted By: fizikisto
I am among those who are grateful for the time you take and the knowledge you share here on this forum.


Thank you.

Originally Posted By: fizikisto
For some of us, a good music rest is an essential part of our piano playing process. I think you can see that this issue of music rests inspires quite a bit of passion for some of us.


Yes, it's clear that for some folks posting in this topic, the music rest is very important.
However, as I pointed out in my response to whitfit, not everyone shares this opinion, moreover, not everyone would be willing to pay extra for a large music rest that they may never use.

Originally Posted By: fizikisto
That's probably because so many manufacturers of DP's include such terrible music rests (if they have any available at all). It's very frustrating. Part of the reason why it is so frustrating is that it would be such an easy thing to remedy.


Respectfully, I disagree. If it was so easy to accomplish, all DP manufacturers would be including perfect music rests, and you would not be frustrated.

Originally Posted By: fizikisto
You're a Nord Owner. So you're probably familiar with the music rest they offer.


Yes, it's a nice accessory.

Originally Posted By: fizikisto
The Nord's music rest is a best in class product (large, sturdy, not too heavy, well designed). It's also crazy expensive...


58 Euros on Thomann.de. To be honest, I'd say that's a fair price given the assumed quality and relatively small number of units Clavia produce.

Originally Posted By: fizikisto
...but I was happy to shut up and give them my money for it.


That's fine.

Originally Posted By: fizikisto
Maybe I'm spoiled by it, but I really just can't understand why so many other manufacturers ignore that segment of the market place.


So to clarify, you wouldn't have any objections to Yamaha, Roland, or Kawai, etc. charging a similar price for such an accessory?

Originally Posted By: fizikisto
Now I'm glad that the VPC-1 has a music rest, and it might even be adequate. But for a flagship product like the VPC-1, merely adequate is not something to aspire for. Nonetheless, I recognize EVERY product will of course make compromises. And as you point out the VPC-1 does have a music rest.


I agree with you on many of those points. It is all about finding the best balance between quality, features, and price that will appeal to the majority of consumers.

Originally Posted By: fizikisto
I remain very interested in the VPC-1. I'm thinking seriously about saving up to get one this summer. Despite the fact that I wish that one aspect of the product were improved, I really hope that kawai has a massive hit on their hands with the VPC1.


I'm sure the VPC team hope so too. wink

Originally Posted By: fizikisto
I can tell you this though, if I do pull the trigger and get one this summer, and kawai puts out an optional "improved" music rest, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.


Sounds like a plan!
Maybe I should set-up an online poll page on the VPC website, allowing folks to vote on which accessories they'd be most interested in?

Or perhaps even a Kickstarter project? wink

Thank you for your feedback.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2041712 - 03/02/13 04:46 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: PianoWorksATL]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9526
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: PianoWorksATL
Check out Adapt-A-Stand for keyboards. It looks like it can improve the wire stand and also make it much bigger.


That looks like an interesting solution, good find!

Can anyone identify the board shown in the example images?



Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2041714 - 03/02/13 05:00 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kawai James]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
For the record, I agree that the music rest is not perfect, and could be improved. However, I also appreciate the challenges that my R&D colleagues face in realising these improvements, while still keeping everything within the allocated budget.

Kind regards,
James
x


Or, perhaps even more accurately, the budgetary constraints that your manufacturing engineering colleagues had to deal with (simply use existing supplies and existing assemblies to put out what is basically just a stripped down existing product) rather than challenges of RESEARCH and DEVELOPMENT which would imply coming up with a built-from-the-ground up designed virtual piano controller starting with well-understood and investigated customer needs and designing a product to meet them.

It is tough being a small company. However, many small companies do have potential advantages such as being more nimble, more flexible, potentially closer to the market, etc. When small companies combine the disadvantages of a small company (not being able to afford to build what customers want) with the disadvantages of a big company (not listening) is when I begin to worry.

Top
#2041717 - 03/02/13 05:13 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9526
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hi theJourney,

Originally Posted By: theJourney
It is certainly an interesting approach to marketing.

First we build something that doesn't meet market needs...


My colleagues and I believe there is a market need for a professional-quality keyboard controller, geared towards the growing community of virtual piano software players.

Originally Posted By: theJourney
...and when it doesn't sell then we can point to the lack of sales as a reason not to develop products that meet market needs.


So far the response to the VPC1 has been extremely positive (pitchbend and music rest concerns aside...), which - fingers crossed - should help to pave the way for future accessories.

Originally Posted By: theJourney
Could this one elementary difference in philosophy explain the huge difference in size, success and market coverage between Yamaha and Kawai?


Possibly, although I hear they also make really great music rests. wink

Thank you for your feedback.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2041721 - 03/02/13 05:26 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9526
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
JFP, thank you for your post (and nice Photoshop work...).

I've already sent an email to my work email address, reminding me to raise this topic with the VPC team/R&D.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2041722 - 03/02/13 05:29 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9526
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: theJourney
It is tough being a small company. However, many small companies do have potential advantages such as being more nimble, more flexible, potentially closer to the market, etc. When small companies combine the disadvantages of a small company (not being able to afford to build what customers want) with the disadvantages of a big company (not listening) is when I begin to worry.


Please don't worry tJ! wink

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2041723 - 03/02/13 05:36 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kawai James]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Kawai James

That looks like an interesting solution, good find!

Can anyone identify the board shown in the example images?


Is there a bigger , more high res picture available ? Could it be a Croma , or old Roland - though Roland doesn't use mod/pitch wheels , mmmm ?

Top
#2041725 - 03/02/13 05:40 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: JFP]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9526
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: JFP
Is there a bigger , more high res picture available ?


Nope, that was all I could find. The fact that it's a .gif may also offer some clues as to the instrument's vintage - it might even be a Kawai! wink

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2041728 - 03/02/13 05:52 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Let me chew on it.

By the way - if they ever decide to adapt the ES7 translucent stand for other products:

1) check the angle of the stand. I think the way it fits on the ES is nice, but it could be a more upright (bends just a bit too much backward for comfortable reading). Minor detail - but if they adjust the legs anyway - it's easy to change that too.

3) Putting a music stand in the middle of the piano , like on your GIF is not a good idea. The great thing about the VPC is the room you have on the surface to put extra controls , or an extra (flat) keyboard on it. Therefore the current position is the right one IMHO, although a bit farther away than ideal.

3) If (bigger if and only just in case) the whole stand gets redesigned it could also be a bit higher - making it easier to put loose sheets on it , without having them bending backwards over de top of the music stand. Loose sheets have no solidity of themselves , so they need as much support as they can get. Of course you can put a plate , or book behind them, but nevertheless. Better have it all perfect in one run and be done with it.

Top
#2041731 - 03/02/13 06:04 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: mabraman]
TrumpetMan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 46
Loc: Essex, UK
Originally Posted By: mabraman
Come on, it's just two more inches of wire and a couple of holes. Old pianos already had it.



My CA63 has these holders (now I fitted them).


Top
#2041735 - 03/02/13 06:25 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Similar holders are standard factory built-in on my Roland HP-307.
They make up for the fact that there is no ledge at the front edge of the music desk like on the Kawai RX-2.

Top
#2041739 - 03/02/13 06:49 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
TrumpetMan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 46
Loc: Essex, UK
The Kawai DPs do have a small ledge at the front, but it can't cope with a big book which wants to shut itself all the time.

Top
#2041759 - 03/02/13 08:37 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kawai James]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Originally Posted By: Kawai James

I've already sent an email to my work email address, reminding me to raise this topic with the VPC team/R&D.


Please don't forget to mention the requests for a decent PIANO stand (was amply repeated here above and in other topics too).

VPC is the most stylish beast of his kind, it would be a pity for this project to leave the product as torso.

You have referred to the "other part" of ourselves (men) was aimed with this stylish noble design - but a stylish stand a la ES7 would be the first thing to satisfy her. (What about ladies here among us? blush) Or are Your R%D planning a stand with cabinet features a la Physis stand with boxes too? Or for a solution for fixable/removable pedal unit?)

ES7 had it from the very first appearance, hadn't it?

It will be just interesting to see how long will it take to bring such supplements to the market from decision? 1 Month, 3 Month?

Top
#2041764 - 03/02/13 09:00 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3864
Loc: North Carolina
My Clav's music stand can't compare to the one on my old Kawai US-50. Here's a video I found on You Tube.


Top
#2041798 - 03/02/13 10:34 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kawai James]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3405
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Yes, it's clear that for some folks posting in this topic, the music rest is very important.
However, as I pointed out in my response to whitfit, not everyone shares this opinion, moreover, not everyone would be willing to pay extra for a large music rest that they may never use.

And besides that, for those who would be willing to pay extra, you have provided a number of possible solutions.

Top
#2041817 - 03/02/13 11:28 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
KLSinCT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/12
Posts: 148
Loc: Stonington, CT USA
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
...my MP8 has this same music rest and I don't find it good for loose sheets, which I seem to use often...


More latent market demand...

Originally Posted By: whitfit
I own an MP10. It is a great keyboard.

The music rest sucks.

James, I really appreciate the feedback that you give, and your responsiveness here, but I don't really understand why you are so critical of those who recognize that the MP10/VPC is not a good music rest.

I agree that other professional stage keyboards have poor or no music rests. That is not an excuse for the MP10/VPC music rest.

For me, I have some larger score books that I copy pages out of so I don't have to lug the full score book around. Those sheets curl up and don't sit properly in the MP10 rest. If I put score books or other thinner music books on the stand, you can't get much on there before they fall over, or start to curl forward.

The music rest could be significantly improved. I would pay more for a good music rest that fits the keyboard mounts. I have my MP10 against a wall, so a big music stand behind the keyboard would be a big pain.

Not everything is perfect, and I wouldn't trade my MP10 for any other stage piano. But, don't be afraid of thinking that the music rest could be improved.


More latent market demand.
Originally Posted By: fizikisto
For some of us, a good music rest is an essential part of our piano playing process. I think you can see that this issue of music rests inspires quite a bit of passion for some of us. That's probably because so many manufacturers of DP's include such terrible music rests (if they have any available at all). It's very frustrating. Part of the reason why it is so frustrating is that it would be such an easy thing to remedy.
...

Now I'm glad that the VPC-1 has a music rest, and it might even be adequate. ... I remain very interested in the VPC-1.... if I do pull the trigger and get one this summer, and if kawai puts out an optional "improved" music rest, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

And more...
Well said BTW.

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
After market accessories such as a 'deluxe' music rest, pitchbend/modulation wheel add-on, or furniture stand are all worthwhile suggestions. However, as with any industry, proven demand must exist before development can be considered.


It is certainly an interesting approach to marketing.

First we build something that doesn't meet market needs and when it doesn't sell then we can point to the lack of sales as a reason not to develop products that meet market needs.

Could this one elementary difference in philosophy explain the huge difference in size, success and market coverage between Yamaha and Kawai?


+100!!! I couldn't agree more....

K.
_________________________
Kevin L. Spindler
Early Keyboard Instruments
Stonington, CT
Harpsichords & Clavichords
Custom Instruments Built to Order
Rebuilding, Repair & Restoration
http://www.facebook.com/kevin.spindler.129

Top
#2041878 - 03/02/13 02:23 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 322
Loc: France
It's strange, I read all the comments and I wonder if I am the only one to find it wonderful to have room in front of the music stand to put a computer keyboard. If I order the VPC1, it will be in front of my computer because I also use electronic music sheets and it will most certainly be wonderful to have both option (paper and electronic) accessible while still keeping the computer keyboard (and mouse) accessible. While I agree that it would be handy to be able to put a four sheet wide partition on it (like on a "real" piano), I haven't seen many stage piano with that kind of stand.
_________________________
- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc

Top
#2041883 - 03/02/13 02:29 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Jean-Luc]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Jean-Luc
I haven't seen many stage piano with that kind of stand.


The VPC-1 is not a stage piano but a virtual piano controller from a real piano company....

Top
#2041900 - 03/02/13 03:12 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 322
Loc: France
Well, for all intent and purpose, the VPC1 is master keyboard and as such can be seen as both, a "home" piano and a stage piano due to it's format (Objectively, in it's presentation, the VPC is more similar to the MP10 than the C95)
_________________________
- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc

Top
#2041912 - 03/02/13 03:47 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: JFP]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: JFP
3) Putting a music stand in the middle of the piano , like on your GIF is not a good idea. The great thing about the VPC is the room you have on the surface to put extra controls , or an extra (flat) keyboard on it. Therefore the current position is the right one IMHO, although a bit farther away than ideal.


@ Jean-Luc ; read my earlier post. No intention to push for a middle / front stand. Position is right, type and build not.


Edited by JFP (03/02/13 03:47 PM)

Top
#2041917 - 03/02/13 03:59 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU

Perhaps this is KAWAI's official solution:

New KAWAI CA-15

_________________________
Acoustic: own clavichord!, Burger&Jacoby,Biel (nice vintage vertical)
Digital: CA65; Pianoteq; Sampled:Galaxy VintageD+Vienna(Bösendorfer)
Sampletekk Black,PMI, etc...
Harpsi: Beurmann Dutch+Sampletekk, Clavichord:PMI+Wavelore+organs

Top
#2042001 - 03/02/13 06:49 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
slowtraveler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 232
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
Since this thread is accumulating a number of data points for user preferences on music rests for the VPC-1, I'd like to add mine (without wishing to pile on Kawai James in any way):

I would also wish for a larger and more robust music rest (a la the ES7's) for the VPC-1. I find myself needing to prop up everything from bound manuscript to handwritten lead sheets to loose SheetMusicPlus printouts to iPads. The MP-10 music rest doesn't reach the level of quality and functionality which the VPC-1 otherwise embodies, IMHO.

It would be fine with me if an improved music rest were an extra-cost option. I remember buying a surprisingly expensive optional music rest for a Kurzweil keyboard I owned a while ago--I didn't flinch at the price because it was such a great convenience.

By coincidence, I sold my trusty old Roland HP207 today, and I'm looking forward to auditioning the VPC-1.

Top
#2042186 - 03/03/13 06:43 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: TrumpetMan]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 326
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Originally Posted By: TrumpetMan
Originally Posted By: mabraman
Come on, it's just two more inches of wire and a couple of holes. Old pianos already had it.



My CA63 has these holders (now I fitted them).



Here you are, Kawaiers, it's already done! Just make it detachable and reclining backwards, and sell it as an accesory. Be shure to overprice it in order to keep Kawai's admin. council members fortune increasing.
Meanwhile, I'll memorize all the DP brands and models that don't offer rests at all.
Sincerely yours,

A CUSTOMER.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

Top
#2042869 - 03/04/13 01:53 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: slowtraveler]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3795
Loc: Northern England.
Are y`all ready for the Vulgar Solution?


http://www.flickr.com/photos/90596869@N06/8529127520/


Edited by peterws (03/04/13 03:10 PM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

Top
#2042890 - 03/04/13 02:33 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: peterws]
KLSinCT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/12
Posts: 148
Loc: Stonington, CT USA
Originally Posted By: peterws
Are y`all ready for the Vulgar Solution?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/90596869@N06/8529127520/in/photostream


Brilliant solution! Did you make this yourself?

Cheers,

K.
_________________________
Kevin L. Spindler
Early Keyboard Instruments
Stonington, CT
Harpsichords & Clavichords
Custom Instruments Built to Order
Rebuilding, Repair & Restoration
http://www.facebook.com/kevin.spindler.129

Top
#2042896 - 03/04/13 02:42 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: KLSinCT]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3795
Loc: Northern England.
How on earth did ya see it? I thought it was a one click shot. Hope this is

http://flic.kr/p/dZG1sL

HOORRAYYYYY!!!!!!! I`ve achieved something today!! The short link on Fickr actually works!!


Edited by peterws (03/04/13 03:17 PM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

Top
#2044203 - 03/06/13 10:37 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
joflah Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 324
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
The VPC1 looks really interesting. I like that it has no wheels, so it isn't any wider than it needs to be. I wonder if it will fit in the cabinet I made for my Casio PX-120. Have they published the exact dimensions anywhere?
_________________________
Jack

Top
#2044204 - 03/06/13 10:43 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9526
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
joflah, please try here:

http://www.kawaivpc.com/specifications

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2044205 - 03/06/13 10:44 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kawai James]
joflah Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 324
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Thanks, James.
_________________________
Jack

Top
#2044232 - 03/06/13 11:17 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
joflah Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 324
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Well, unfortunately, it's 2 inches too wide. But if those side caps can come off without breaking anything, it should fit. Now, I wonder if anyone actually has one in stock?
BTW, the figure for depth, 42.5 cm, is incorrectly converted to inches as 17 3/4". It should be 16.73".
_________________________
Jack

Top
#2044243 - 03/06/13 11:28 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9526
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
joflah, the side panels can be removed, however I wouldn't recommend doing so because they're need to hold the VPC1 together.

Originally Posted By: joflah
BTW, the figure for depth, 42.5 cm, is incorrectly converted to inches as 17 3/4". It should be 16.73".


Ah, well spotted, thank you!
I fixed the error.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2044916 - 03/08/13 05:55 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
SDaniel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 21
Loc: France
I agree that the music rack of the MP10 doesn't fit MY personal needs. But I wasn't excpecting much more on a stage DP. My previous one simply didn't have any!
On the other hand, I didn't chose my DP on this particular spec (I rather concentrated on sound and keyboard feel). But that's ok, there are solutions.
How about that?

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Byad-kOz7gKgXzBSN1RTSzRqZTg/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Byad-kOz7gKgSzZmMFg1R1c0VEE/edit?usp=sharing

http://www.woodbrass.com/librairie%2C-papeterie%2C-dvd...-pupitre-rtx-pupitre-puvx-orchestre-
p20195.html

Top
#2069022 - 04/23/13 12:47 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
AtlantisHero Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 15
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: rnaple
Originally Posted By: theJourney
...Since you admit that you cannot be of help to us, why not let others respond to the thread who might be able to address the question posed with their own ideas or proposed solutions.


If you're worried about a good music stand. Why not buy one? Put it behind the keyboard? Problem solved.

I'm looking forward to buying the VPC. I want a keyboard. Not a music stand.

Sometimes, people sound like they expect a keyboard to be a transformer. Transforms into this and that and...in the end they got a kid's toy.
No hillbilly solution. Easy solution. I want a music stand. I buy one.

Oh gee....I'm paying all this money and I want.... You want to whine!


Thanks for your suggestion.

I expect the Kawai VPC-1 to fulfill the function it is advertised: " A virtual (software) controller from a real piano company". Real piano companies deliver usable music stands that hold paper properly and with industry standard distances to the back of the keys c.q. to the player's eyes.

Placing a stand behind the keyboard becomes even more of a problem than mounted on the back of the keyboard....

The distance from the back of the keys to the base of the music stand on my Kawai RX-2 is adjustable from negative to about 13 centimeters and on my Roland HP-307 is about 10 centimeters.

Placing as you suggested a (standing?) floor music stand (assume an orchestra director version for required width?) behind the VPC-1 would mean a distance of greater than 30 centimeters). That is three times the distance and completely off the scale for a piano and becomes unusable for someone with reading glasses, bifocals or even normal eyes. It is a good thing the newer, deeper keyboard is not on board or you might need binoculars to see the music! smile


Dear Friends, music rest is not an important issue for this device, it can be solved with some other ways. There is a more serious problem for me, which is about triple pedal! I expect from Kawai to built a more solid triple pedal for this device. I understand that it does not have its dedicated stand, so it is impossible to fix the pedal assembly to somewhere and that's why the pedal assembly have to be very solid unit, i.e thick/heavy, but as far as I can see, it is very similar to F20 2 pedal unit and I am sure it will move around when you use it! The pedals have very low height from their base,floor, impossible to replicate real piano foot actions. I was expecting something more solid like Roland's triple pedal for RD700NX. I hope Kawai will remedy this failure with new MP series... For a serious piano playing, that is essential, music rest is a less serious issue...
Cheers!


Edited by AtlantisHero (04/23/13 12:53 AM)

Top
#2069060 - 04/23/13 01:51 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9526
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
AtlantisHero, thank you for your post.

To clarify, your issue with the F-30 pedal unit is that:

- it may move around on the floor
- the height of the pedals is too low (?)

Here are the two pedal units, for reference:

Kawai F-30:



Roland RPU-3:



Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2069098 - 04/23/13 03:35 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Seems pretty solid to me ?! @AtlantisHero ; have you tried it ?

Personally I like the idea of NOT having a fixed position of the pedals (fixed in cabinet / stand); if it's ergonomically not in the right place for you , than you can move it to a position where you find it more pleasant to use. E.g. the three pedal set on my ES7 was a bit to close to the front for my own taste and I would have loved to be able to position it backward a bit. With the VPC1 set you can do exactly that.

Please let us know if you tried the F-30 or know anyone who has and what the experience was (perfectly OK, too light / too low ?); I'm curious.

(Should have known the answer myself by now, but...; sorry James ;-)

Top
#2069177 - 04/23/13 08:08 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 843
The pedals are solid and fine, not too low. They don't move easily on most floors. If you ask me.

Top
#2069182 - 04/23/13 08:14 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
When I first got my F-20 2-pedal unit it used to move around on the hardwood floor where I was at the time. I got some non-slip shelf liner and put it underneath and it hasn't bothered me since. You might try the same thing or something similar. You can also place something behind it (phonebook?). Generally in my experience when a pedal moves it moves away from you.

Top
#2069286 - 04/23/13 11:41 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kawai James]
AtlantisHero Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 15
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
AtlantisHero, thank you for your post.

To clarify, your issue with the F-30 pedal unit is that:

- it may move around on the floor
- the height of the pedals is too low (?)

Here are the two pedal units, for reference:

Kawai F-30:



Roland RPU-3:



Kind regards,
James
x

Hello James, let me tell you one thing firstly, you are great smile I have never seen a company presentative who is in love chatting and sharing their opinions with the customer... Well done!

One of my friends has Kawai MP10 and his F20 pedal set is dancing on the hard floor. I have not seen VPC-1 and F30 pedal set yet but as far as I can see the construction of it very similar with F20. It may not move as much as F20 but I am sure it has a tendency to do so...

I am sure you have played acustic pianos as well as digital piano models with furniture and their pedal location from the ground is quite high. We are talking about replicating the real piano so I think the pedals should look more sturdy. Yes, as I said, I have not tried them yet, but I would be really glad if I get some feedback from someone about this issue.
I do not know but Roland's triple pedal set looks more elegant and purposeful... Thank you for your kindness anyway smile

Top
#2069290 - 04/23/13 11:46 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: JFP]
AtlantisHero Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 15
Hey JFP, hello smile

No, not tried in person yet. But like with real and proper digital pianos, I always prefer the pedals get fixed somewhere! Yes, at first, the pedal set seems to be very at front, but if you play the piano properly, you will get used to it and when you do not have it, you will feel strange. Like wearing seatbelt wink

Top
#2069292 - 04/23/13 11:47 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: maurus]
AtlantisHero Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 15
I will have to try it in person when I get chance to do so...

Top
#2069568 - 04/23/13 08:37 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: AtlantisHero]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: AtlantisHero
We are talking about replicating the real piano so I think the pedals should look more sturdy.


Digital piano pedals (the ones not built into a console model) are always able to move around. It's not a big deal generally, but it can require a little thought if it's an issue. I'm pretty sure the F-20 doesn't move around more than other pedals. Quite the opposite, actually. It's relatively large, heavy, and sturdy. My guess is that your friend's floor is quite problematic for pedals.

I can't agree with your other comments, unfortunately. Under the foot the F-20 feels pretty much like an acoustic pedal. Certainly as much as any other digital pedal I've tried. I don't think it's lower. The pedals look to me pretty much like those on acoustics. I guess I don't see what's to complain about in the F-20 besides there being only two pedals (which the F-30 changes). It's a fine set of pedals...I don't think there are others that are better. Maybe on the avantgrand...

Even if the pedal was very different from an acoustic, I wouldn't see the big deal. There are differences between different pianos (both acoustics and digitals) and the pedal height and resistance is one of them. But people don't usually complain about it because it takes like 1 second to adjust to and then you don't notice it. Differences in the keys are a much bigger problem, especially when going from one acoustic to another.

The only complaint I've ever had with a digital piano pedal (besides the models that are just on/off with no in between) is that some models are very narrow and can tip over or turn to the side while you are playing. The nice thing about the F-20 and similar models is that this doesn't happen.


Edited by gvfarns (04/23/13 08:51 PM)

Top
#2069578 - 04/23/13 08:57 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: AtlantisHero]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9526
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello AtlantisHero,

Originally Posted By: AtlantisHero
Hello James, let me tell you one thing firstly, you are great smile


Thank you. wink

Originally Posted By: AtlantisHero
I have never seen a company presentative who is in love chatting and sharing their opinions with the customer... Well done!


Thanks again. I enjoy participating on this forum largely because I'm a fan of digital pianos. I'm also reasonably knowledgeable about Kawai instruments and those of other manufacturers, so it makes sense to contribute where I can.

Originally Posted By: AtlantisHero
One of my friends has Kawai MP10 and his F20 pedal set is dancing on the hard floor. I have not seen VPC-1 and F30 pedal set yet but as far as I can see the construction of it very similar with F20. It may not move as much as F20 but I am sure it has a tendency to do so...


Yes, the F-30 design is very similar to that of the F-20. I actually use an F-20 at home, and it does slide around a little on the mock-wood vinyl flooring, although no dancing unfortunately.

However, the same is true of the expression and switch pedals that are placed either side of it (incidentally, great idea for a new topic: Show us your pedal configuration...). Fortunately, the instruments these pedals are connected to are placed against the wall, so there's not a great deal of movement. If it was a real concern, I'd probably purchase a pack of non-slip rubber pads from the 100 yen store and attach them to the underside.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2069673 - 04/23/13 11:42 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Kromen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/05/13
Posts: 33
Loc: Mexico
I think that the VPC1 + the ES7 Designer Stand + ES7 Triple Pedal Lyre will make the MOST HANDSOME
Digitalpiano / controller ever ;D

Regards,
Oscar
_________________________
Kawai ES7
Casio PX-350

Top
#2070469 - 04/25/13 07:35 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kromen]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Kromen
I think that the VPC1 + the ES7 Designer Stand + ES7 Triple Pedal Lyre will make the MOST HANDSOME
Digitalpiano / controller ever ;D

Regards,
Oscar



Something like this (sorry - just a quick/ rough mockup)


Top
#2070472 - 04/25/13 07:48 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: JFP]
AtlantisHero Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 15
It looks like a front cut acustic piano, though :P


Edited by AtlantisHero (04/25/13 07:48 AM)

Top
#2070473 - 04/25/13 07:53 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: gvfarns]
AtlantisHero Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 15
Hello gvfarns, you are right, the pedal itself ( F20 ) is not bad actually, and dancing issue may be encountered with all type of stage piano pedals unless they are fixed somewhere... I think this is one of the reasons why people buy the furnitured piano models or sth like ES7 with stand...

Top
#2070478 - 04/25/13 08:01 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kawai James]
AtlantisHero Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 15
James, I am quite impressed with Kawai MP10 and I believe that any instrument should have some sounds in it for their soul. That's why I was going to wait for new MP series. However, I have recently encountered with StudioLogic Numa Concert piano and tell you what, I have never felt such eery while listening a digital piano like that one. I am already fall in love with Fazioli AP ( I am a proud owner of a Gem Promega3 ) and while listening it, I could feel like hearing all vital vibrations supposed to come from an AP smile
I am planing to buy it AND IT EVEN DOES NOT HAVE A TRIPLE PEDAL SET AS AN OPTION... WEIRD!

Top
#2070482 - 04/25/13 08:11 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: AtlantisHero]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: AtlantisHero
James, I am quite impressed with Kawai MP10 and I believe that any instrument should have some sounds in it for their soul. That's why I was going to wait for new MP series. However, I have recently encountered with StudioLogic Numa Concert piano and tell you what, I have never felt such eery while listening a digital piano like that one. I am already fall in love with Fazioli AP ( I am a proud owner of a Gem Promega3 ) and while listening it, I could feel like hearing all vital vibrations supposed to come from an AP smile
I am planing to buy it AND IT EVEN DOES NOT HAVE A TRIPLE PEDAL SET AS AN OPTION... WEIRD!


What about the touch of the Numa , especially in comparison with VPC / MP10 ??

Top
#2070554 - 04/25/13 10:40 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: JFP]
AtlantisHero Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 15
JFP,
I have no idea about VPC1, but it should be nearly identical with MP10. I really like MP10 touch behaviour and for me it is better than Roland 700NX... So you can realise what kind of touch I am interested in. Numa touch is closer to MP10 to me comparing with 700NX and much better than Promega3 ( I think Nord Piano has a similar action ). Wood gives a kind of quality to Numa touch, it is certainly not better than Kawai but not far behind...


Edited by AtlantisHero (04/25/13 10:42 AM)

Top
#2070566 - 04/25/13 11:02 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]
Allan W. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 376
Loc: Michigan
Here's my solution for my MP-10, which I've posted earlier. It's just a piece of cardboard, but it works well for holding up sheets of paper. For books the original stand is OK.

http://imgur.com/a/KENlS

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!

Trade Regrets:
Barry "Bear" Arnaut

(ad) Yamaha
Yamaha
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad) Piano Music Sale - Dover Publications
Piano Music Sale
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Hamelin plays Gershwin
by beet31425
35 minutes 27 seconds ago
Yamaha CP1 Vs CP4 Regardless of Price and weight :)
by Tylor
Today at 10:21 PM
Which part of the chord rests
by Anita Potter
Today at 10:08 PM
Yamaha P250
by Mind Flayer
Today at 09:59 PM
Baldwin Concertmaster tech needed
by daniokeeper
Today at 08:50 PM
Forum Stats
77013 Members
42 Forums
159277 Topics
2339785 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission