Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Speaking of the VPC1

Isn't today the release day? Is anyone going to be an early adapter?

I checked with the local dealer here in Vancouver but they are not sure if they are going to carry the VPC1. As soon as anyone gets their hands on one I would like to know their thoughts on it.

Also if it comes to purchasing one from something like Streetwater has anyone had experience (in Canada) with purchasing an instrument from these sites?

They are in stock at Musik-Schmidt in Germany. The only 'In stock" VPC's I have seen so far....the rest is roughly around the 25th of March

Also from Sweetwater site:

Really - since when and why is that ? Estimates on the big web sellers seemed normal to me so far and Schmidt seems to have stock already. So what's up - any info James ?

.

I received a message from a PianoWorld forum member yesterday confirming that Sweetwater had shipped the VPC1 to him.

I do not have information regarding the disclaimer on the Sweetwater site, however I expect it's just to cover their back when demand exceeds supply.

Kind regards,
James
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The latest from their website:


I think I may order from Sweetwater. They seem to be the only online store that ships (new) Kawai products in Canada and the local Kawai dealers don't seem to be in a hurry to carry new models.

This thing is in high demand! I signed up for notification with Sweetwater for when they will have them in stock. I got the notification and immediately placed an order but they were already sold out.

Here is a review from a happy customer.

How much longer to wait!!!

I got mine today from Sweetwater. I had asked my sales engineer last week to give me a heads up when they got some in and he shipped it out Monday. I see that they are out again at the moment but he told me their next delivery is expected the second week in April.

I have two words for KAWAI.... I'M DONE!!!



Shopping for a piano controller that is! This is exactly what I've been looking and asking for. It's simply beautiful. Very nice touch using RED felt this time too! It just looks very elegant in my studio. It's exactly what I would have designed for a piano controller had KAWAI given me their drawing board.

Packaging was exceptional and it arrived in absolute pristine condition. I really can't say enough good about it. I'm giddy! They got it right.

Curt

Nice one Curt, thanks for the positive words!

Any chance of a few pics for the facebook fan page?

Oh, and which piano package are you using, just out of interest?

Cheers,
James
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Sounds great Curt! I've spent some time today looking at alternatives to acoustic grands and messed about with the Pianoteq demo to see if I want to continue using 'virtual pianos'. Currently I'm using a Casio CDP100 with Logic Pro and would probably purchase the VPC in a few months, that is if Kawai released a Mac OSX driver and editor. Might I ask James, if you know, whether or not Kawai have planned or are in the process of designing the Mac version?

UKPianoMan,

There is undoubtedly strong demand from the Mac music community for Kawai to develop a version of the VPC Editor for OS X. I'm confident that it will happen in the future, however I'm afraid I cannot provide a concrete release date.

However, even without the VPC Editor, Mac users can still enjoy the VPC1, as explained in the website Q&A:



Kind regards,
James
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Cheers for the reply James, well hopefully when the time comes for me to upgrade it'll be released. My problem is I like tweaking parameters!

This is exactly what I've been looking and asking for.

I use the Ivory Steinway exclusively.

And this actually reminded me of a question I had for you, James. The VPC1 has an Ivory touch preset, but Ivory has a family of pianos (Steinway, Yamaha, Fazzioli, Bosie). I'm curious which of these piano's actions has been captured in the Ivory preset?

Thanks!
Curt

Hey! That's what I said!

Curt

I feel there should be an option to buy a matching stand (hmmm, maybe for about $300). I know if I had bought the VPC1 piano I first thing I would have bought next is a stand. Best if it was a matching one, but since it doesn't exist I would have to settle for a non-matching stand from another company. Better that Kawai gets that extra business money rather than another company, don't ya think? Stands are high margin items and are an easy way to boost profit.

Wait, this thing requires a Windows PC to adjust all parameters?! :headshake: Surely the midi sysex param messages will be documented -- or are they "proprietary"?

In order to make user adjustments to the touch curve, key velocity offsets, and MIDI routing of the VPC1, the 'VPC Editor' software will be require. Currently, this software is available for Windows only.

Kind regards,
James
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Any chance they are working on an iPad app for these functions?

That's an interesting suggestion, however I believe OS X support should be the focus for the time being.

James
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James, any news on OS X support? I am about to purchase a VPC1 but this issue holds me back a little. Can we expect a firmware/software update in the not too distant future?

I was told by the sales engineer that they expect to get more in May.

I don't want to wait that long! Any suggestions?

This all makes me feel like Canada really is a backwater country.

You should see Australia!

maurus, again, the VPC1 works fine with Macs, it's just the editor software that's currently not available. This is not something related to the VPC1 firmware.

Kind regards,
James
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I can attest to the fact that the editor is not NEEDED to enjoy the VPC1. Granted, I've only had mine for two days but I don't see the need to edit ANYTHING about it in the foreseeable future, if at all. It's plug-n-play all the way!

Curt

P.S. James, any idea on my earlier question about the Ivory touch preset? Thanks!

Curt, I've asked the R&D chaps, and will let you know when I receive their response.

Cheers,
James
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I'm sure it does work fine with Macs. It would just be nice to know that a new editing software is in the works.

Maurus,
Given how prevalent macs are in the music industry, I was very surprised that kawai didn't have an OS X version of their editing software available at launch. Surely there must be a lot of inquiries and demand for it. So, one hopes that it is being worked on. But alas, many companies seem to keep such projects close to the vest until they're ready to launch, if they even exist at all. Personally I would wish for a definitive statement one way or the other. A simple "We have no plans to make an OS X version of our editing software" type statement would be very useful, if disappointing. Or even better, a "We are currently working on an OS X version of our editing software and expect to have it ready to go into beta testing next september" type statement would be wonderful to get from them. Maybe there have been such statements, but I've not seen them. If not, James maybe you could let the marketing folk know that we mac users would love to have a bone thrown our way.

Whilst lack of OSX support would probably not sway a decision to purchase the VPC1, I would have thought Kawai would've developed the editor software for both Windows and OSX. The vast majority of professional studios employ the use of Macs and seeing as the VPC1 seems to be a high-end professional product it would be a fantastic addition to a studio set-up. This is in no way a dig at Kawai as I am considering buying one myself later in the year.

Still, we shall wait and see!

We have received a number of enquiries from Mac users regarding a version of the VPC Editor software for OS X. Clearly the demand is there, so it's obviously something we're keen to develop. However, I cannot provide a concrete date on when it will be available.



Okay, I'll be sure to let the marketing guy know.

Cheers,
James
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James... Kawai needs to admit that this is a bad oversight on their part. Mac has always been king in music for computers. Kawai should be catering to Mac and allowing to settle for ms.


Also on music stand. Her is an absolutely beautiful piano with no music stand. To put it sarcastically....must be Kawai's fault.

Peugeot began to produce bicycles for more than a century ago.

Now we have Porsche Design Pianos, Peugeot Design Pianos - vote what comes next?

You can never know: Microsoft could have payed more for omitting it than Apple offered + some calculated losses with a few restrained Mac users.

Porsche design is a joke. Porsche should be ashamed of themselves. They have more class than that.
I really like this Peugeot Design. I would rather see all the outside black. The inside, perhaps a little deeper, little pearlish white. I can easily understand how the sound plays right in to the player. Must be awesome to play.

Perhaps Kawai can work with Toyota on something? I understand why the car companies. They have the engineering expertise to design a case differently and make it work. They know about strength in materials and so forth. From their racing divisions. They've tried out these materials already.

Maybe Kawai might be interested in smaller designs for DP's? Contemporary designs?
Basically, I think the VPC's design is beautiful. Can't be improved upon.

EDIT: And don't forget Kawai and the Yokohama Toy Company. The completely awesome Godzilla Metronome!

I would imagine Kawai opted for Windows first off because the majority of home users own windows PCs.

The majority of home users are not music students, or performers. Those people are by far, the majority, into Mac's.
A beginner won't buy a VPC. That is for someone who knows what they are doing. What they want. Someone already into music performance. These people, by far, work with Mac's. They always have.
Mac caters to music. The same should be returned.

rnaple
Actually that piano does have a very nice sheet music rest, but it folds down when not in use. It can be seen in the promotional video on their website.

Made up statistic #1:Made up statistic #2:Honestly, where do you get this information?

rnaple,
I also think it was a huge oversight not to release an OS X version of the editor. Mac users tend to be very devoted to their platform (almost cult-like in some circles), and I think many mac users would feel slighted by this and take their dollars elsewhere. And you're quite right, even when apple was 6 months away from being bankrupt, it still had a dominant presence in the music industry. Now that macs have become cool again, I think that's probably only gotten strong. However, Kawai may be anticipating that this thing will sell so well that they'll have trouble keeping up with demand for awhile If they're still selling more than they make, they may not care that mac users are passing them up. But eventually those sales will die down. At that point, if kawai then releases a mac version of the editor, it may spur sales from a lot of mac users who were sitting on the fence. I don't have any idea if that sort of thought process went into their decision or not (probably not) but the decision will probably work out for them financially, especially if they release an OS X editor a few months down the line.

Kawai took a fairly big risk introducing the VPC1, a first-of-its-kind high-end piano controller. As a Mac user myself, I would like to see the editor ported to OS X as soon as possible, but I understand why they chose not to invest in developing it for launch. It's an easy thing to follow up with once they've gotten a sense for the market's response to their product. Kawai James has said they're working on it. I don't blame them for hedging their bet a little.

You have got it, fizikisto, I also think VPC with a MAC SW version can be presented as a big selling point on the summer NAMM.

It's a little bit of the hyperbole for which Apple fans like me are justly (in)famous.

The best estimates of OS X market penetration (Gartner, etc.) suggest that OS X holds at most between 7% and 10% market share in the U.S., and quite a bit less than that worldwide.

There's no doubt that OS X is over-represented in the media and creative market segments, but even there it's a minority player in absolute terms.

Hi, MacMacMac, good sharp point as often from You, again wishful or otherwise lazy thinking of us others...

I don't buy this argument. If you wanted to limit your number of customers to match limited production, the best way to do that is to raise the price (and make more profit per unit). Then if your production capacity increases or you get a reduction in demand, you can drop the price and pick up the rest of your customers. I don't think there's any reason to doubt how fast Kawai can make these things - they are probably just testing the market. These sorts of products have never been big sellers, but hopefully they will become more common with the increasing number of software pianos.

Doh! And I saw the promotional video! Doh! Can I get away with saying that playing with the music stand down is all Kawai's fault?


Just walk into a university music school and start looking around and asking students what they use at home. Especially when it comes to composing. At one time, Mac was the only game in town. ms wasn't even considered. If Kawai could sell a VPC to one percent of the computer users out there...they would be in hog heaven. The VPC would be the biggest seller in the DP market. Kawai is addressing the MacIntosh people...not the MacDonald's people.

Lets face it people (and Kawai). A whole lot of those PC's at home are being used for not much else but internet and games.

But let me ask you what it is that you feel you'd NEED to edit that would justify not buying an incredible controller? Would you sit down at a Yamaha and get out your files, pins, and wrenches and start attacking it so it feels a little more like the piano you wish it felt like? Would you change the weights on the action of a Steinway so that the lower registers would play louder according to your personal touch? No.

I think you'd adapt. I think you'd adapt to the piano in front of you and just make music with it. You'd overcome and forget all about those really tiny things that you thought had bothered you about it and just play it and make music. Every acoustic piano is different - even those from the same maker will vary a bit from unit to unit.

The function and purpose of the VPC1 is to control a software piano; be it a sample library, or a modeler. Every one of these software packages has tools within them to make whatever tweaks to touch curves and the like. If one NEEDS to tweak, why can't it just be done there?

I guess I don't understand all of this complaining about what is DOESN'T have from people that haven't even touched it. I don't know. I haven't even downloaded an editor and I doubt I'll ever want to. I just wanna play....

Curt

That is your preference to "just play it and make music" also to never download an editor, I like to tweak my software until I find sounds I'm ultimately happy with because the option's to do so are available. I haven't the knowledge to adjust an acoustic piano but if I weren't happy with it I would pay a technician to adjust it accordingly.

It's not a complaint of not having the editor for Mac because if I were seriously considering purchasing one soon I would do so regardless, I suppose some of us are curious as to Kawai's intent on Mac release.

I totally do NOT get the point of this discussion. It's rather boring to be honest and now we also seem to get lost into an even more dull Mac vs PC discussion. Perhaps we should we start an iPhone vs Galaxy S debate as well , to get more distracted ? There are for sure a few musical Apps that work ONLY on the iOS OR Android. Always very 'interesting' threads to follow...

To summarize and hopefully finalize - so we can go back to the experiences of the first VPC buyers and how they rate the instrument:

1) Right from the moment the VPC was released, some people requested a Mac version of the touch-curve editor. (That's ALL it is; only a utility to tweak some touch curves, apart from the default ones already included - nothing real fancy; the VPC will still work fine without it).

2) Right away Kawai acknowledged this request was noticed and a Mac version is either seriously considered or much more likely, already being developed.

3) In the meantime people with Mac's can use a Parallels PC , or similar solution if they really want to use the Windows version of the editor. That is if you're not happy with the default curves, which is a big "if" and if you really can't hold out till the Mac version is released. By the way , many Mac users already have a VMware or Parallels-like solution for other non-OSX software they might use and it is really quite common and accepted, so I don't see a totally insurmountable problem there.

4) Again, James stated several times that Kawai has heard you and the others and that they are working on it. So give it some time. Making this point over and over again , doesn't change anything.

By the way I'm a loyal Mac user for over 25 years, but still am very unpretentious in what Apple means in the big world of computers and users, which is far far less than they are trying to make you believe. So a little modesty as a Mac user would do no harm. I've seen too much bragging by Apple worshippers and the company itself throughout the years and the same pose almost killed them in the past. If they pursue the current " we're the best and ...the rest" attitude that they picked up (again) the last few years, the same decline for Apple will set in as the last time they decided to live in their arrogant Ivory tower. So a little modesty as Mac user would help; we're not as widespread and important as you might believe. For me I'm grateful if someone develops a good OSX app - but also fully understand it when a company decides ( by real market penetration numbers not imaginary self-importance) that the return on investment is not worth it.

Now back to the VPC reviews and how it actually plays , looks, feels and more. If nothing more interesting show up at Musik Messe , I'll buy one too for sure, regardless of the availability of the Mac editor. It's the keys that count and if I really have to run a utility to use the PC editor so be it. Just my thoughts...

@JFP

"Now back to the VPC reviews and how it actually plays , looks, feels and more."

THANK YOU!
THANK YOU!

Precisely ...Much ado about little.

Well, I am trying to figure out what the attraction is to this product.

I have the ES7 and I cannot find anything that stands out as special about the VPC1 that isn't already there in the ES7 and the ES7 doesn't have to drag around a notebook computer to generate sound and a bunch of electronic equipment in order to get that sound out into the air.

So, enlighten me ... what is it ?

The velocity curve hype ? All that piano software stuff has it built in.

In fairness, I have only been using piano software with Kawai dps so maybe I have been spoiled ... but I have never used a velocity curve for anything other than making sure I can play very ppp volume if I need to. It is pretty simple. Just make it very concave and done.

Now, if the sound I will get from it will be great then my ears perk up but I think I will get the exact same sound I get when I connect my ES7 to my computer and run piano software. So, I cannot find any reason for a purchase.

Any enlightenment is welcomed.

The attraction is that it's cheaper and has a slightly better action than the ES7.

It's what many players have been requesting for quite some time: a professional-class virtual piano controller with the best keyboard action in the business.



The ES7 is an excellent instrument, however the keyboard action of the VPC1 is superior.



Which I believe is testament to the quality of the ES7.
Please continue to enjoy this excellent instrument.

Cheers,
James
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It's simple ...

Most digital pianos can only sound reasonable when played through a computer-based piano library. So why pay for the piano's built-in crappy sound? Get the VPC ... keyboard only ... and attach it to a computer. It's money well spent on a keyboard, and none wasted on a lame tone generator. It's a great idea.

Well, I guess if I had a software piano sound that I thought was really great, I would feel that way. The problem is that I don't. The sound I get using the software products have always been "not quite" good enough for me. I always seem to have to blend in the sound of my DP for a little crisper attack. So, I would be reluctant to rely on the software sound by itself. But, if that is the draw, I understand. I just do not personally value that as much.

Well, it must be pretty good because the ES7 action is just great.



It truly is. It has cured me of GAS. I am trying to find a reason to buy something but I just am unable to do so. Disappointing !

As the OP its funny to see where this thread has come and gone.

MacMacMac hit the nail on the head. Why spend the extra thousands of dollars for a built-in sound that I'm just going to bypass anyways with piano software?

Well, you would not exactly spending extra thousands of dollars by purchasing a dp which has its own sound. As I expressed, the ES7 is very similar in key action quality and it has a very nice sound and the cost would be approximately the same, maybe a couple hundred dollars difference.

To me, the hassle of having to "connect" to a computer to get a sound and then having to also attach to some external speakers to hear the sound, is just not something I would be comfortable with.

dmd: You've missed the point. Someone (the OP) has made the decision to use a piano library. The hassle of connection must have already been considered and accepted.

As such, any extra spend beyond a keyboard controller is wasted money. That's precisely the target market for the VPC.

And to further narrow that target market, they have decided there is no wish to ever have the option to utilize their DP without the accompanying hardware. Seems like an unnecessarily restrictive decision for saving $200 .... but too each his/her own.

Especially considering that the marginal manufacturing cost to include the sound generator is negligible...

ES7 - RHII action < VPC1 - RM3 Grand II

I'm not sure about the pedals on the ES7 (is the sustain more than just a on/off switch?) but the other big selling feature of the VPC1 are the "Grand Piano Pedals" where half-pedaling will work.

ES7 - "32 exceptional instrument sounds" - don't want these, I'm only interested in the best available piano sound. As of now the best is only available via piano software.

Touch curves? Well I'm not sure if I will be the kind that will tweak these endlessly. I'm sure the settings that come out of the box will work well. One point I think is that the controller is designed with this in mind. Other digitals output midi velocity levels with lesser range and probably designed specifically for their own sound generator (not 100% sure on that one).

Well, I have owned both of them (CA-63 with RM3 Grand and ES7 with RHII) and I prefer the RHII. So, I would not give any particular edge to the RM3 Grand action.



The ES7 has sustain pedal with "half-damper function". If that means half-pedaling then it has that feature.



That is my position also. But it can be a nice diversion periodically.


You may be right. I just have a found it difficult to get that "best" sound out of my computer and into the air.




My position on this, as well.




I no nothing about this. Doesn't sound like you do either.

So, from my perspective ... I could swap my ES7 for the VPC1 and the only significant difference I would notice in my day is that I would be restricted to my software piano sounds exclusively.

Not necessarily a bad thing. I would get used to it.
I would probably begin the journey of searching for a better hardware system in order to realize the "potential" of the software piano sounds I am using. Maybe would begin purchasing additional software in search of that "best" sound.

Maybe it would turn out to be a good thing. Maybe I would find that nirvana of piano sound ... Maybe ...

A lot of us has this jurney behind us, having had a full-fledged DP and ending at not using its internals at all or uttermost at 5% of all the time.

I wouldn't trade in an ES7 for the VPC1 if I already had one and not my intention to diss it either.

I started my "journey" with hooking up my old Clavinova (CLP130) with Pianoteq and then added the Bluthner add on. I've added Galaxy D to the mix now which is my current favorite.

I also only use headphones because attempts to use computer speakers or routing the sound through the Clavinova speakers had terrible results. Of course there is a myriad of options for outside sound output but I fear that might be a costly rabbit hole.

My priority for now is to replace the Clavinova with something that has a superior action and better sustain pedal (its just a switch on the Clavinova). I feel the VPC1 was made specifically for someone in my situation. I don't seem to be alone in this respect.

Maybe someone can comment on the velocity levels/curves? Am I right to think that a controller like the VPC are designed to take full advantage of the 128 velocity levels available? I know my Clavinova only outputs something like levels 10 to 100.

Precisely.

You are very happy with your ES7 and therefore do not feel the need to purchase a VPC1.

However, other players may be approaching the VPC1 from a different background and/or with different needs, so for these individuals the VPC1 is a more attractive proposition.

Just because an instrument has black and white keys, it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone who plays the piano is obligated to immediately rush out and buy it.

I, for example, would never consider purchasing a Yamaha 'Tyros'-style board, however I appreciate that there is a market for such an instrument among certain types of players.

Kind regards,
James
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Just a quick bump to highlight that this question has been added to the Q&A section of the VPC website:

http://kawaivpc.com/questions

Cheers,
James
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Some videos of people using their VPC-1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAOeDrQ3Xxc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjuzC_KxQnc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9gBrTq2xIE

I have an MP-10 which seems to be the same keys as the VPC1. I also exclusively use Ivory II American Concert D. Is there a way to get these touch curves for my use? Are they a lot better than a flat curve?

The MP10 and VPC1 keyboard actions are very similar, however the VPC1's 'RM3 Grand II' action features 3-sensor key detection. This can affect the touch characteristics.

Regardless, however, I'm afraid it is not possible to obtain, nor load the VPC1's 'approved touch curves' onto the MP10.

Cheers,
James
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Maybe having the velocity curve sketch (a screenshot for example) is possible to (*manually*) extrapolate the data and than (manually) copy that into the velocity editor of another software.

* for manually I mean writing a simple script (in python) that take the curve image and write out the midi-in/out mapping in a text file for example.
It's not difficult at all but it'a extremely boring...

Yes, I can try to reconstruct it from a picture of the curve. Would anyone have a copy?

Also, what kind of difference does it make versus the default neutral setting?

Allan W.,

If you have a Windows PC, you can download and run the VPC Editor (albeit in demo mode) and find the exact values.

However, once again, the 'approved touch curves' are prepared for the 'RM3 Grand II' action, not the 'RM3 Grand'.

Cheers,
James
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