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#2041915 - 03/02/13 03:53 PM New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites!
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
With RM3-II (not GF) !!

Availability: 2013 march.

New CA-15

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#2041918 - 03/02/13 04:00 PM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Temperament]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1317
Loc: The Netherlands
Looks nice. Just one small side-note ; no audio input. So if you ever get bored of the standard PHI piano sound and trow in a laptop, you'll have to use external speakers. For the rest a nice package. Fits nicely in between CN-34 and CA-65 (save for the bit more standard PHI with 192 voices and lack of audio-in).

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#2041924 - 03/02/13 04:17 PM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: JFP]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Originally Posted By: JFP
Looks nice. Just one small side-note ; no audio input. So if you ever get bored of the standard PHI piano sound and trow in a laptop, you'll have to use external speakers. For the rest a nice package. Fits nicely in between CN-34 and CA-65...lack of audio-in).


Well,
No USB either (You have to chose an audio interface with MIDI IN).
I think the cabinet will be just a good case for my Genelec monitors on the top of it - but I didn't expect to want to abandone them with CA65 or perhaps even with CA95 not.

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#2041926 - 03/02/13 04:19 PM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Temperament]
Kos Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 76
So basically it's a VPC with a stand and internal sounds smile I wonder about the price though...
_________________________
"There is nothing to piano playing besides producing the appropriate velocities on the appropriate keys at the appropriate time" (c) qvfarns

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#2041927 - 03/02/13 04:24 PM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Temperament]
adak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
I find the Kawai UK website to be much better than the US website.
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-150


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#2041937 - 03/02/13 04:39 PM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Kos]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1317
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Kos
So basically it's a VPC with a stand and internal sounds smile I wonder about the price though...


Basically it's a ca-13 with RM3-II thrown in as new feature. Price here with 21% VAT is € 1799

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#2041940 - 03/02/13 04:44 PM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Kos]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Originally Posted By: Kos
So basically it's a VPC with a stand and internal sounds smile I wonder about the price though...


Manufacturer's price is the same as for CN34 (see price chart under "specification" of both). That is about the same as VPC with stand and additional music rest.

My question is, wether the sustain pedal is continous, and is it the same as on CA65?

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#2041998 - 03/02/13 06:44 PM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: JFP]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8401
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
The CA15 is a direct successor to the CA13.

I posted the following in a separate thread last week, but it's perhaps worth reiterating here:

Originally Posted By: myself
The CA15 was announced by Kawai Japan on Monday.

Main improvements over the CA13:

- RM3 Grand II keyboard action (Ivory Touch, triple sensor, let-off)
- New tone generator (higher resolution reverb and resonance effects etc.)
- 192 note polyphony
- Key-off release
- 20W x 2 speaker system
- Grand Feel Pedal System
- Adjustable music rest
- Updated cabinet design


Originally Posted By: Temperament[/quote
My question is, wether the sustain pedal is continous, and is it the same as on CA65?


Yes, the CA15 features the same pedal functionality as the CA95/CA65, albeit without the 'Soft Pedal Depth' and 'Half Pedal Adjust' Virtual Technician parameters of the larger models.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2042085 - 03/02/13 11:55 PM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: JFP]
Kos Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 76
Originally Posted By: JFP
Price here with 21% VAT is € 1799

Thanks, I'm guessing the price will be more or less the same across the EU.
I was mainly interested in this thing as a midi controller, but for that money I think I'll stick with the VPC.
_________________________
"There is nothing to piano playing besides producing the appropriate velocities on the appropriate keys at the appropriate time" (c) qvfarns

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#2042142 - 03/03/13 03:22 AM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Temperament]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1317
Loc: The Netherlands
Thanks James, didn't know about the other improvements, other than the new keybed. Are the new resonance and reverb effects the same as on the ES / CN34 series in quality ?

Cabinet is certainly nice - it's seems to be a CA-65 with reduced amp power, but same speaker and cabinet setup. Pity for the lack of audio-in - otherwise I would consider this an alternative to my coming VPC purchase. Don't want to put an extra speaker set around the CA-15 when I decide to add a software instrument . For the rest an nice upgrade from CA-13.

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#2042164 - 03/03/13 05:11 AM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: JFP]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Originally Posted By: JFP

Cabinet is certainly nice - it's seems to be a CA-65 with reduced amp power, but same speaker and cabinet setup. Pity for the lack of audio-in - otherwise I would consider this an alternative to my coming VPC purchase. Don't want to put an extra speaker set around the CA-15 when I decide to add a software instrument . For the rest an nice upgrade from CA-13.

I don't need the internal sound system at all, nonetheless it has following advantages over a MIDI Controller as the VPC:
  • It has a key lid
  • It has a decent music rest
  • It has a decent looking wooden stand
  • It has fixed pedals
  • Children and guests could have something to play on occasionally (when they don't have your laptop at home)
  • I also guess there will be a broader demand for a cabinet instrument on selling.

Nonetheless, it is a pitty that USB (with MIDI out) and a line in are lacking.

These are in the first line just built in small annoyances to support higher and product sells. (Admittedly, these are better than random beeps and noises and muted keys with SW shareware demos because there are some options as workaround.)

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#2042182 - 03/03/13 06:31 AM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Temperament]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 304
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Wouldn't a model that had it all (I mean a good standard level of sound development, conectivity, practical design and keybed) be unbeatable?
Or is there something I am missing?
One has things that others lack. They have different prices, of course, but many people don't want to pay the extra money-for-nothing or, in fact, chooses to pay just-a-little-more for a significant improvement.
What we have now is a bunch of models with mixed performances and prices that just confuse the customer.
Make it clear, make it good, make it last, make it clever, then I'll shut up and give my money to you.
Oh wait, it's all about someone becoming a millionaire.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2042184 - 03/03/13 06:36 AM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Kawai James]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Main improvements over the CA13:

- RM3 Grand II keyboard action (Ivory Touch, triple sensor, let-off)
- New tone generator (higher resolution reverb and resonance effects etc.)
- 192 note polyphony
- Key-off release
- 20W x 2 speaker system
- Grand Feel Pedal System
- Adjustable music rest
- Updated cabinet design

With Key-off release did You mean let-off simulation?

Then one more PRO with CA15: key off MIDI velocity (s. manual)

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: Temperament
My question is, wether the sustain pedal is continous, and is it the same as on CA65?
Yes, the CA15 features the same pedal functionality as the CA95/CA65, albeit without the 'Soft Pedal Depth' and 'Half Pedal Adjust' Virtual Technician parameters of the larger models.

Fine, Half Pedal hopefully means full continouos pedal velocity implementation (MIDI included) - If this is true, this is a point which could be stressed out all Kawai models implement continous pedal. (As we have just seen by lower Casio Models it is not common that half pedal is a continous implementation.)
This is important especially with SW instruments: with a jumps in pedal velocities are damper and pedal noises very rude - you turn them off completely with VintageD e.g.)

For this reason it would be interesting to know how many velocity steps are there. (For all models).

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#2042209 - 03/03/13 07:51 AM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Temperament]
Aeons Holle Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/01/12
Posts: 55
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
Temperament, I think I can shed some light on this (for the CA95 at least, but I assume it should work the same for other models with "Grand Feel Pedal System), as I recently investigated the CA95 pedal implementation due to some compatibility issues with software pianos.

The CA95 sustain pedal sends 25 different MIDI velocity values between the whole range of 0-127, in fairly equal steps of about 5. However the trigger points are not evenly distributed about the whole physical pedal range (as I assume to be the case with other continuous sustain pedals), but rather concentrated in an area near the pedal up point. I suppose Kawai has implemented it this way with the philosophy that the whole range of MIDI values 2-126 should be the half-center pedal range, and everything below the range would be damper up/pedal down (so nothing noteworthy should happen there, much like in a real grand).

In detail this means:
At the physical pedal up point no MIDI value is sent. Only after a short physical pedal travel (the initial slack) where the point of contact of damper lift rail would occur in a real grand, the CA95 pedal sends MIDI value = 0. The further travel range where the dampers have reduced damping capabilities then fires off all the MIDI values. At the point where the dampers in a real grand would lose all contact with the strings, the CA95 pedal sends MIDI value = 127. Over the whole remaining bit of pedal travel until the pedal bottoms out (no effect on sound on real grand), no further MIDI values are sent.

This can work well for halfpedaling if the receiving software is programmed accordingly to accept all MIDI values as part of the half pedal center range (the CA95 internal sound module obviously works fine).
However, unfortunately it does wreak havoc with any external software trying to calculate pedal noise volume from the time between the pedal up and pedal down MIDI events (or an implementation similar to this), as the travel distance is shorter between those two events on the CA95 as would commonly be expected. Thus the calculated volume result is way too high (for example in Galaxy's The Giant or the new virtual piano suite from VI Labs - True Keys: Pianos), or it doesn't work altogether like in Ivory II, where no pedal noises can be triggered at all by the CA95 pedal.
Moreover, in case it works the pedal down noise is already triggered at the damper disconnect point, before the pedal actually physically reaches the bottom - which also means it is triggered on every single pedal use, even if the pedal is not pushed further until physically reaching the bottom at all. In combination with the miscalculated pedal noise volume this obviously gets obnoxious really fast, so I tend to disable pedal noises completely in my software pianos.

So, while the Kawai CA95 pedal is definitely continuous and quite detailed at that (I think my old Yamaha CLP-170 only sent about 6 different values in steps of about 30), it is not linear continuous and thus does not completely work as intended when triggering a software piano.

I hope that at least the F30 pedal for the VPC is linear, since its sole purpose is to be used with software pianos.
_________________________
Kawai CA95
VI Labs True Keys: Pianos
Synthogy Ivory II American Concert D, Italian Grand, Grand Pianos
Galaxy Vintage D, The Giant

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#2042268 - 03/03/13 11:13 AM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Temperament]
abitconfused Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/03/12
Posts: 14
Two questions I guess for 'Kawai James'...

1. With the 20 watt amp and 12cm speakers and 'New Harmonic Sound Engine', will the CA15 basically perform like a CN24 but with wooden keys and fewer voices? I rather like the CN24 and a version with an even better keybed would be interesting to me

2. Will the software curves defined for the VPC also work with the CA15?

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#2042306 - 03/03/13 12:04 PM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Temperament]
doume Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 19
Loc: France in LYON
Hey

I'm french and sorry for my english.
I'm also a beginner whith piano.

I was looking for the kawai CA65, and now come this new CA15.

Are they realy differents ?

The CA15 has no USB port, how can we use MIDI IN instead of USB ?

doume


Edited by doume (03/04/13 02:58 AM)

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#2042325 - 03/03/13 12:41 PM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Aeons Holle]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Thanks, Aeons Holle for the very detailed informations.
(I could remember to have read about 24 velocity values, but couldn't find it anymore.)

Pianoteq has a wizzard for calibration of these velocities, and you can even define own velocity curve for the pedal travel.

My sold KAWAI CA-51 had sent only 8 velocity values in quite linear manner, but I couldn't configure VintageD with it to work properly - I guessed these discrete 8 values were too few for it to function properly.

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#2042351 - 03/03/13 01:47 PM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Temperament]
adak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
I love the look of these spinet pianos. Maybe someday I will buy one. I also like the look of stage pianos. Can a man have two pianos and be happy?
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-150


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#2042353 - 03/03/13 01:53 PM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Temperament]
kapelli Online   blank
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 342
Loc: Poland
You can have dozens of pianos and be happy smile
So you can choose the instrument accordingly to your mood and type of music.

Going back to Kawai, I don't understand why (it's to all manufacturers) they are putting the 12cm speakers to the piano... 16cm should be ok, but 12 is definitely to less...
The power is not so important as the size...

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#2042438 - 03/03/13 05:06 PM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Aeons Holle]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Dear Aeons Holle, could You share some Guinea Pig-experiences with True Keys Pianos? Would be nice.

Originally Posted By: Aeons Holle
... or the new virtual piano suite from VI Labs - True Keys: Pianos)


By the way, could You share your experinces with True Keys and the CA-95? I am very curious.

Originally Posted By: Aeons Holle
I hope that at least the F30 pedal for the VPC is linear, since its sole purpose is to be used with software pianos.
Interesting (open) question....

Further, the most important question remains: do you listen to the SW-Instruments with Your CA95 over line-in? How the Sound Board behaves with them compared to the native sound of the CA95?

1000*Thx Attila
_________________________
Acoustic: own clavichord!, Burger&Jacoby,Biel (nice vintage vertical)
Digital: CA65; Pianoteq; Sampled:Galaxy VintageD+Vienna(Bösendorfer)
Sampletekk Black,PMI, etc...
Harpsi: Beurmann Dutch+Sampletekk, Clavichord:PMI+Wavelore+organs

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#2042520 - 03/03/13 07:34 PM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: abitconfused]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8401
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: abitconfused
Two questions I guess for 'Kawai James'...


Fire away!

Originally Posted By: abitconfused
1. With the 20 watt amp and 12cm speakers and 'New Harmonic Sound Engine', will the CA15 basically perform like a CN24 but with wooden keys and fewer voices?


Yes, this is a very close comparison. The CN24 and CA15 both share the same 'Progressive Harmonic Imaging' piano sampling, and utilise the new, more powerful tone generator with improved polyphony, reverb, and effects.

Originally Posted By: abitconfused
I rather like the CN24 and a version with an even better keybed would be interesting to me


The CA15 is a definite step-up over the CN24, yet retains the 'piano-oriented' focus.

Originally Posted By: abitconfused
2. Will the software curves defined for the VPC also work with the CA15?


No, I'm afraid not. The CA15 and VPC1 may share the same 'RM3 Grand II' keyboard action, however they are quite different in every other respect.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2042665 - 03/04/13 03:18 AM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Kawai James]
abitconfused Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/03/12
Posts: 14
@KawaiJames-

Thank you for the clarification

This sounds like it could be a very nice piano. As with some others my only concern is the lack of line-in which is somewhat limiting: a kit enabling this could be a very attractive after-market option

To the poster who was concerned about speaker size: I've done a little bit of work on speaker design, and driver dimensions are not the only parameter when looking for low frequency extension or general sound quality. One really needs to hear how the instrument sounds in person before drawing conclusions on this point

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#2042673 - 03/04/13 03:45 AM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Temperament]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8401
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
abitconfused, I understand your suggestion about the line-in. However, the CA15 is intended as an introduction to the 'Concert Artist' series - essentially an affordable piano-oriented DP, with the emphasis on the keyboard action and piano sound, rather than additional features.

I share your opinion about the speakers too. The CA15 (like the previous generation CA13) has a particularly good sound system, despite its relatively compact size.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2044127 - 03/06/13 08:17 PM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Kawai James]
mactoe Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 5
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
...with the emphasis on the keyboard action and piano sound, rather than additional features.


This.

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#2045126 - 03/08/13 03:24 PM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: JFP]
abitconfused Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/03/12
Posts: 14
Originally Posted By: JFP

Basically it's a ca-13 with RM3-II thrown in as new feature. Price here with 21% VAT is € 1799

It's just been listed on Thomann for that price with a delivery date of 30 April

The VPC is Euro 1325 and listed as available now(!) and the CA-65 is Euro 2269. CN-34 is Euro 1499

I personally feel they've priced the CA-15 a bit high in comparison to the others for its features and my interest has dropped a bit

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#2045395 - 03/09/13 07:45 AM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Temperament]
doume Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 19
Loc: France in LYON
The CA15 has no USB port, but is it realy expansive for KAWAI to add this option ?
And how can we do the same thing with a MIDI port ?

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#2045458 - 03/09/13 10:38 AM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Temperament]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2587
Loc: Manchester, UK
I think I am set on buying this one when it comes out. Has anyone here played on the VPC1? I presume the action will be identical.
_________________________
Kapustin - Preludes Op. 53, Nos. 8, 11, 12, 9 and 10
Poulenc - Nocturnes and Novellettes
Barber - Souvenirs
Esa-Pekka Salonen - Dichotomie
Kevin Oldham - Ballade, Op. 17

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#2045842 - 03/10/13 10:06 AM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Temperament]
adak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
What is the best Kawai action? Is it the GF? How are all the current actions ranked? Which pianos have the GF action?
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-150


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#2045853 - 03/10/13 10:35 AM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: adak]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
GF-s action is momentarily available with the CA65, CA95,
RM3-II with CA15 and VPC1

I am very interested too, whether by which margin and to which extent GF is superior to RM3-II? What features are different?
(weighting, responsiveness, hardness, stiffness, noise, repetition...subjective feeling)

What parameters of GF are superb, what of RM3-II?

Is it conceivable to prefer RM3-II to the GF (disregard price)?

I understand, that GF key length is significantly longer and in theory it should be a clear advantage, but how in praxis?



Edited by Temperament (03/10/13 10:46 AM)

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#2045893 - 03/10/13 11:48 AM Re: New Kawai CA-15 on KAWAI UK and Germany websites! [Re: Temperament]
adak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
Does anyone else find the music stand looks short? How does it hold individual sheets of music? If there is a problem I hope it gets fixed in the next upgrade.
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-150


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