Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
123 registered (ajames, accordeur, ando, AmateurBob, A Guy, 30 invisible), 1795 Guests and 14 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#2042511 - 03/03/13 07:18 PM Temperature vs Humidity
johnlewisgrant Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 518
Loc: canada
"Relative humidity" is a function of air pressure, temperature, and humidity. To simplify my question, I'll leave air pressure out of it. So, here goes: I have a humidifier that keeps the "relative humidity" of the piano room at 42%, even when it gets as cold as 55 fahr. The relative humidity stays at 42% when it's as warm as 80, too.

Question: is the temperature change ITSELF a problem, even when the relatively humidity is kept at 42%? Are there parts of the piano that shrink and expand relative to temperature changes, even when relative humidity is kept constant??? Is it "critical" in any way that the temperature of a piano stay within a certain range, even when relative humidity is constant?


Top
(ad PTG 757) The Value of PTG Membership
The Value of a PTG Membership
#2042515 - 03/03/13 07:25 PM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
How are you monitoring your RH? How is the room RH being controled? Are you using a D-C system to stabilize your piano?
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#2042529 - 03/03/13 07:55 PM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: Minnesota Marty]
johnlewisgrant Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 518
Loc: canada
The humidifier has of course a read out, but I would never trust that alone. I have 3 other RH monitors in the room. All show the room is at a constant 42 per cent relative humidity, regardless of the temperature (because that's what a good humidifier is supposed to do... maintain a constant RH).

The piano stays very, very in tune, BTW. But I've often wondered how TEMPERATURE, as an "independent variable" (as our high school science teacher used to call it), affects pianos (if at all!) The RH might remain constant, but the temperature of the room can of course change quite a bit.

Top
#2042531 - 03/03/13 08:08 PM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
A temperature range which is comfortable for people will be suitable for a piano.

BTW - In an open air environment, barometric pressure has no effect on RH. That would be in reference to specific humidity and dew point also will become another consideration.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#2042536 - 03/03/13 08:14 PM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
David-G Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 1244
Loc: London
As I understand it, the important thing is to maintain a constant moisture level in the various wooden parts of the piano. The moisture content in the wood will depend upon the RH in the environment, hence why it is important to keep the RH constant (or at least within a limited range). I believe that the temperature is not relevant; if this is wrong, I hope that somebody will explain why the temperature should matter if the RH is constant.

Top
#2042573 - 03/03/13 09:32 PM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: David-G]
johnlewisgrant Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 518
Loc: canada
Originally Posted By: David-G
As I believe that the temperature is not relevant; if this is wrong, I hope that somebody will explain why the temperature should matter if the RH is constant.


That's what I have always assumed. But the caste iron plate or frame of the piano would contract in a colder environment, wouldn't it? And that, conceivably, would have an impact on tuning?

How much, if any, I have no idea.

Top
#2042576 - 03/03/13 09:36 PM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
pianotune2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/01/12
Posts: 61
Loc: ks
Temperature can effect a piano. Metal expands and contracts with temperature changes, strings are made of metal. I have seen strings go flat that had sunlight hitting them from the window next to the piano.
_________________________
Stewart Moore
Piano Technician North Central and North East Kansas

www.pianotune2.webs.com

Top
#2042584 - 03/03/13 09:53 PM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752
Relative Humidity is just that - Relative. Warm air can hold more moisture than cold air. If the temperature in the room holding the piano lowers, so does the amount of moisture in the air if the RH remains the same. The only way to keep the actual amount of moisture in the air constant is to increase the RH as the temperature drops. This only works up to a point. The real question is - Does the piano prefer a constant "specific moisture level" or is it OK with a constant RH? In my experience, a small change in temperature 18C plus or minus 3C and a RH of 47 plus or minus 5 holds a piano tuning very nicely.

Top
#2042587 - 03/03/13 09:56 PM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752
Incidentally, the "standard" required for the accuracy of a consumer grade hygrometer is plus or minus 7% RH.

Top
#2042597 - 03/03/13 10:24 PM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: Mwm]
johnlewisgrant Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 518
Loc: canada
Originally Posted By: Mwm
Relative Humidity is just that - Relative. Warm air can hold more moisture than cold air. If the temperature in the room holding the piano lowers, so does the amount of moisture in the air if the RH remains the same. The only way to keep the actual amount of moisture in the air constant is to increase the RH as the temperature drops. This only works up to a point. The real question is - Does the piano prefer a constant "specific moisture level" or is it OK with a constant RH? In my experience, a small change in temperature 18C plus or minus 3C and a RH of 47 plus or minus 5 holds a piano tuning very nicely.


I guess I'm really missing something here. The whole point of maintaining a constant RH is so that the room (and everything in it) maintains a more or less fixed moisture level, at VARYING temperatures.

Ergo, 50 degrees or 80 degrees, no problem: a humidifier (or dehumidifier, if necessary) maintains a constant level of moisture.

Oh well, correct me if I'm wrong!


Top
#2042601 - 03/03/13 10:36 PM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752
Relative Humidity is a measure of the ratio of the amount of moisture in the air relative to what it is capable of holding. The term "dewpoint" is the temperature at which the air contains 100% of the moisture that it is capable of holding, and, if the the actual temperature drops to the dewpoint temperature, you get fog.

Top
#2042604 - 03/03/13 10:38 PM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752
At very low temperatures, such as are found in the arctic, there is very little moisture in the air, even when the RH is 100%. At very high temperatures, such as are found near the equator, there is a lot of moisture in the air, even at a low RH.

Top
#2042607 - 03/03/13 10:42 PM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752
You may have noticed that when the temperature drops in the room, such as at nighttime, the humidifier stops running for a while. That occurs because the RH is rising as the temperature drops. After a while however, the air starts to dry out, the RH drops below the set-point, and the humidifier starts again. There will always be less moisture in the air for a constant RH at a lower temp.

Top
#2042615 - 03/03/13 11:17 PM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
johnlewisgrant Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 518
Loc: canada
OK... so even where the RH is kept at a constant, say, "42 per cent" that's not enough.

A more or less constant temperature, say, 70 degrees also necessary, even when RH is constant.

That's because a change in temperature WILL change the humidity of the piano, EVEN WHEN THE RH IS KEPT AT A CONSTANT NUMBER?

Top
#2042667 - 03/04/13 03:19 AM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 2069
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted By: johnlewisgrant
OK... so even where the RH is kept at a constant, say, "42 per cent" that's not enough.


To the contrary. Not only is it quite enough, it is perfect.

Originally Posted By: johnlewisgrant
A more or less constant temperature, say, 70 degrees also necessary, even when RH is constant.


Not for the sake of the wood. Only for the sake of preventing expansion or contraction of the metal. But within the typical temperature range in a home, I would regard those changes in the metal as negligible.

Originally Posted By: johnlewisgrant
That's because a change in temperature WILL change the humidity of the piano, EVEN WHEN THE RH IS KEPT AT A CONSTANT NUMBER?


No. If rH is constant, then the moisture content of the wood will also remain constant - irrespective of the temperature. So, a constant temperature is not required to keep the piano's wood at constant moisture content. The moisture content of the wood is only dependent on the relative humidity of the surroundings. It is NOT dependent on the temperature. The environment in which you keep your piano is very friendly, and more than sufficient. In fact, it's pretty much ideal.

Again: a change in temperature will NOT change the moisture content of the piano, provided you keep the relative humidity constant (which you are!) So there's no reason to fuss any further.

Also, please disregard postings about "warm air can >hold< more moisture than cold air". This is a layman's notion that is all over the internet, and even in some textbooks. The concept of relative humidity has nothing to do with the "capacity" of the air. It is just as applicable to a vacuum or other gases. Relative humidity is the amount of water vapor present in a given space, expressed as a percentage of the maximum amount of water vapor that can be present in this space, before condensation will take place (that maximum point is called dew point or saturation point). You can see that neither "air" nor its "holding capacity" comes into this definition at all.

Go in peace and enjoy your piano. You're providing it with a very good life. (As evidenced by the super-stable tuning.)
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.
LinkedIn profile
1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

Top
#2042677 - 03/04/13 04:14 AM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Mark I disagree, if the RH level is kept constant but the temperature change, there is a little change in the wood moisture content level.

This is actually helping us as the pianos may accept lower levels of RH during winter, assuming the temperature inside is not kept too high (not excessive heating)

the wood moisture content tables are saying what is the wood humidity content and what dimensional change may occur.
That said, practically , having a 42% level will certainly be good enough (even if the "factory environment" state 42% FOR 21°c - 69.8 F

(the 2 numbers linked are giving a good appreciation of the wood dryness)

I dont know if on a all year long period, 42% is better than 45 % for instance, I would suggest that 42% in summer, with very high temperatures, is a somewhat dry environment, while 42% during the cold season is even something difficult to obtain in most places, so I would keep those numbers, possibly trying to obtain more than 42% in winter mean sending a lot of water in the air.

I stay persuaded that that piano is in very stable conditions , as it is (particularly when comparing with the situation of most pianos wink

Here is a wood equilibrium moisture table calculator :

http://www.csgnetwork.com/emctablecalc.html

You can see your wood humidity can range from 7.9% to 8.2 % depending of the temperature.
This is very small, but remind that the wood saturation is at 28% moisture (in weight) +- (to be considered 100%)Dry wood (to be used for pianos) is 7% to 10% (those days, while it was 9% to 14% before modern heating came in the houses, so older pianos need more than 42% - 21c° (69.8°F) in theory.


typical variations of the wood moisture content during the year are ranging from 4 to 14% outside.

ANd here is a wood movement calculator :

http://www.woodworkerssource.com/movement.php

The wood dimensional change is really very small, from 7.9* to 8.2 (a 1000 dimension turn to 1000.1 or 1000.2) so in the facts the process exists, but I understand why air RH is used as a final measure , hoping it can reassure you wink










Edited by Olek (03/04/13 04:29 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


Top
#2042719 - 03/04/13 07:29 AM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: Olek]
johnlewisgrant Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 518
Loc: canada
Originally Posted By: Olek
Mark I disagree, if the RH level is kept constant but the temperature change, there is a little change in the wood moisture content level.

.....

This is actually helping us as the pianos may accept lower levels of RH during winter, assuming the temperature inside is not kept too high (not excessive heating)


I'm at a loss, here. Unless the laws of physics are dictated by the mind (as Bishop Berkeley maintained), then you and Mark can't BOTH be right! At least one or both theories must be wrong.

I raise this issue because I see exactly this difference of opinion between piano experts evidenced everywhere on the internet!!!

So, having a sort-of-Scottish dog-on-a-bone find-the-truth attitude about these things, I really want to know the answer.

I confess that I've always assumed ("thought" probably didn't enter into it) that Mark's analysis was the correct one.

But you'll find references to the vital importance of keeping a piano's "temperature" relatively stable all over the internet.

Hence my question/consternation.

Top
#2042720 - 03/04/13 07:30 AM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 2069
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Technically, I stand corrected. It appears from the EMC calculator that at a constant r.h., temperature does have a SMALL influence on the EMC of the wood.

E.g. at a constant 42% r.h.:
At 50°F the EMC is 8.2%, while at 90°F it is only 7.9%. That is 0.3% difference.

However, please compare this to fluctuations in r.h. at a constant temperature, e.g. a constant 65°F:
At 40% r.h. the EMC is 7.8%, but at 50% r.h. it is already 9.3% and at 60% it is a whopping 11.1% !!!

One can see that the influence of r.h. is much, much larger than that of temperature. I would call the influence of temperature practically negligible.

So, for all practical purposes, given the typical temperature fluctuations in a home, I stand by my earlier post: if you are already controlling r.h., that is quite enough. It is not necessary to keep temperature perfectly constant.
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.
LinkedIn profile
1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

Top
#2042725 - 03/04/13 07:45 AM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: Olek]
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 2069
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted By: Olek
This is actually helping us as the pianos may accept lower levels of RH during winter, assuming the temperature inside is not kept too high (not excessive heating)


OK, let's get some real numbers from the website you linked.

Scenario 1: summer, temperature is 75°F (24°C) and r.h. is 45%.
The EMC of the wood is 8.4%.

Now, you say in winter we can "accept lower r.h.". So let's do the sums.

Scenario 2: winter, temperature is 50°F (10°C). Inside a home, that's really cold.
How far can we allow the r.h. to drop, while keeping 8.4% EMC?
Answer: to 43-44%. That's just ONE TO TWO percent, Isaac!
If we "allow" 35% in winter, as you would perhaps suggest, then the EMC will drop to 7.1% !!

So sorry, your argument doesn't hold any water (pun intended). Lower r.h. levels are not somehow more acceptable in winter than they are in summer.
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.
LinkedIn profile
1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

Top
#2042730 - 03/04/13 08:02 AM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Johnn that is just that the level of moisture in air differ slightly from the one in the wood (the wood cannot accept more than 28% humidity)

Thanks for the numbers Mark, indeed I was a tad optimistic about the wood EMC change due to low heat under similar RH% for air.

SO for simplification, keeping a constant RH of air will suffice to stabilze wood (if you have not even 1/1000 wood movment under the "high EMC" and the low one you can avoid the consideration.
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


Top
#2042731 - 03/04/13 08:07 AM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: Olek]
johnlewisgrant Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 518
Loc: canada
Great.... I think that explains it.

Top
#2042839 - 03/04/13 12:59 PM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: Mark R.]
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752
[quote=Mark R.][quote=johnlewisgrant]Also, please disregard postings about "warm air can >hold< more moisture than cold air". This is a layman's notion that is all over the internet, and even in some textbooks. The concept of relative humidity has nothing to do with the "capacity" of the air. It is just as applicable to a vacuum or other gases. Relative humidity is the amount of water vapor present in a given space, expressed as a percentage of the maximum amount of water vapor that can be present in this space, before condensation will take place (that maximum point is called dew point or saturation point). You can see that neither "air" nor its "holding capacity" comes into this definition at all.

I have to take issue with the above statements. While it is true that air cannot "hold" water vapor, it is true that the maximum amount of water vapor that is a constituent of air in a given space varies with temperature. Check any reputable source, the NOAA for example, and you will find that air at 40C can have up to 51.1gm/m3 water vapor as a constituent; at 20C up to 17.3gm/m3, and at 0C it can have up to 4.85gm/m3. In each case the RH would be 100%. Therefore, at 42%RH, there would be 21.5, 7.27, and 2.04gm/m3 of water vapor at 40, 20 and 0C respectively as a constituent of the air.

I think, though, that Mark R. is on the right track. If the moisture content of wood remains relatively constant due to the constant vapor pressure of a constant RH, then the piano should be stable.

Top
#2042903 - 03/04/13 02:56 PM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: Mwm]
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 2069
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted By: Mwm
I have to take issue with the above statements. While it is true that air cannot "hold" water vapor, it is true that the maximum amount of water vapor that is a constituent of air in a given space varies with temperature. Check any reputable source, the NOAA for example, and you will find that air at 40C can have up to 51.1gm/m3 water vapor as a constituent; at 20C up to 17.3gm/m3, and at 0C it can have up to 4.85gm/m3. In each case the RH would be 100%. Therefore, at 42%RH, there would be 21.5, 7.27, and 2.04gm/m3 of water vapor at 40, 20 and 0C respectively as a constituent of the air.


Sorry, but no.

Correctly, the statement should read (possibly with very slight changes to the actual numbers):

Quote:
The maximum amount of water vapor that is a constituent of air in a given space varies with temperature. Check any reputable source, the NOAA for example, and you will find that air a space at 40C can have up to 51.1gm/m3 water vapor as a constituent; at 20C up to 17.3gm/m3, and at 0C it can have up to 4.85gm/m3. In each case the RH would be 100%. Therefore, at 42%RH, there would be 21.5, 7.27, and 2.04gm/m3 of water vapor at 40, 20 and 0C respectively as a constituent of the air space.


Catch my drift? Your line of thought is absolutely fine, except that it doesn't matter whether the water vapor co-occupies a space with air, or a cow's fart, or vacuum. The concept of relative humidity is only dependent upon the water vapor pressure and the temperature in that volume of space. The air (or cow's fart) are only spectators.
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.
LinkedIn profile
1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

Top
#2042925 - 03/04/13 03:50 PM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752
I agree whole heartedly. However, this is a forum for earth based life forms, most of whom do not exist in a vacuum. The use of the words "hold and air" are entirely appropriate, if inaccurate.

Top
#2042976 - 03/04/13 06:07 PM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
A vacuum cannot, by definition, hold any water vapor. A cow's fart can, however.

_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#2043153 - 03/05/13 02:34 AM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 2069
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
The point was, and still is, Marty, that no "carrier gas" is required for r.h. concepts to hold true.

Water can evaporate or sublime into a vacuum, i.e. be the only gas present in that space. Obviously, once there is water vapor in that space, it's not a vacuum anymore. Pray don't be facetious. (I know, that's a bit much to ask. laugh )

Originally Posted By: Mwm
However, this is a forum for earth based life forms


And here I thought this is a forum for pianos... smile


Edited by Mark R. (03/05/13 02:38 AM)
Edit Reason: added response to Mwm here, rather than in a separate post.
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.
LinkedIn profile
1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

Top
#2043244 - 03/05/13 08:29 AM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752
A forum is an assembly for the discussion of public issues, presumably by "the public", which, in common usage, implies a limited group of earth based life forms, specifically, homo sapiens, and, in this case, the discussion is about pianos. Being a person who does not believe in absolute truth, only observed reality, if I saw a group of vacuum packed pianos discussing issues regarding their tuners or players, then I would accept the possibility of a forum for pianos.

Top
#2043256 - 03/05/13 08:52 AM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: Mwm]
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 2069
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted By: Mwm
Being a person who does not believe in absolute truth, only observed reality


Ah, good, then you might be interested to hear that it's very much an observed reality that neither air, nor water being "held" in it, is required for relative humidity.

Using inaccurate (or plain wrong) terms when discussing technical concepts may be convenient to some, but it's not appropriate.
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.
LinkedIn profile
1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

Top
#2043259 - 03/05/13 09:02 AM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752
You are correct. But the majority of the technical concepts being discussed in this forum are rife with inaccurate or wrong terms, and yet, with some time and patience, these people are happily (mostly) solving issues that they face daily.

Another PW forum, such as Physics World, might be more appropriate for our intercourse.

Top
#2043265 - 03/05/13 09:18 AM Re: Temperature vs Humidity [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4226
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Originally Posted By: Mwm
But the majority of the technical concepts being discussed in this forum are rife with inaccurate or wrong terms, and yet, with some time and patience, these people are happily (mostly) solving issues that they face daily.


Sure about this? I can’t count the times over forty years I have attended an instrument that has been “repaired” only to have to “solve issues” and charge the pseudo repair person some more.

Many of the posters here are not experienced piano technicians.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!

Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad) Piano Music Sale - Dover Publications
Piano Music Sale
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Accelerating learning; iPad, apps, & my digital piano p105
by megabyzus
11/28/14 01:27 PM
A piano is a "value proposition".
by turandot
11/28/14 12:38 PM
How Old should Bass Strings be Before You Replace Them?
by Paul678
11/28/14 11:03 AM
My Blthner
by joe80
11/28/14 10:30 AM
What to teach before transferring to a jazz teacher
by hreichgott
11/28/14 10:06 AM
Forum Stats
77074 Members
42 Forums
159419 Topics
2341826 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission