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#2042588 - 03/03/13 10:02 PM Yamaha C1, thoughts?
Jason Zhao Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 58
I was wondering about everyone's thoughts about the C1 Yamaha Grand. My dealer has the Yamaha C1 price tag at about $22,000. (I live in Edmonton, AB Canada)

Do you think they will later give a liquidation price to the older C Series as the CX series are replacing it?

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#2042591 - 03/03/13 10:06 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4373
Loc: Jersey Shore
For 22k you should be able to find a nicer bigger piano.

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#2042592 - 03/03/13 10:08 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Jason Zhao Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 58
Yes, that's what I thought to...
But in Edmonton AB, Canada, prices of pianos are just very very VERY high.

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#2042593 - 03/03/13 10:09 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Jason Zhao Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 58
$14,900 is considered very cheap for just a Yamaha GC1.

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#2042599 - 03/03/13 10:29 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Steven Y. A. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 291
Loc: Toronto
Hi you can give Toronto or vamcouver/calgary dealers a call I know Merriam pianos pick up their Kawais from Vancouver regularly the shipping cost is minimal ( something around $500)
For a 22k purchase it's worth the trip imo. I am not a big fan of feeding greedily overpriced dealers.
You can also get a quote from other dealers in Canada and let them price match or lose your business. Time to test your negotiating skill.
_________________________
PLEYEL P124

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#2042616 - 03/03/13 11:21 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Jason Zhao Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 58
Hmm, do you think Calgary would be a worthy trip to get a cheaper price?
And to be honest, my negotiating skills are the worst.

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#2042622 - 03/03/13 11:45 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Steven Y. A. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 291
Loc: Toronto
Call the Calgary dealers first see what price they offer.
My favorite piano at 20k range is Vogel 180t by Schimnel. Much nicer than Yamaha IMO. AmazIng singing tone and sweet sound. It's worth to check out.
_________________________
PLEYEL P124

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#2043023 - 03/04/13 08:31 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Jason Zhao Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 58
A Vogel huh?
I've never heard of that brand before.
But you see my dad is very stubborn and will only accept to buy a Yamaha. Though if there was a miracle I might be able to convince him to at least look at it.
I couldn't find any videos of the Vogel, can it be compared to the Schimmel C-182?

Also, let's say I do get a good deal in Calgary, will they ship the piano or do I have to go pick it up myself?

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#2043045 - 03/04/13 09:18 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Steven Y. A. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 291
Loc: Toronto
ask ur dad what he thinks about German/Euro made high end piano vs Japanese piano.
Vogel 180T has almost identical "gut" as the Schimmel C-182, cabinet design are different. Their sound and touch are almost identical. (closer than any other Schimmel model vs c-182)
Vogel is Schimmel's new factory in Poland.
They has same soundboard and wood, which was manufactured in Schimmel factory then shipped to Poland. Then assembled in Vogel Factory . They both have the schimmel designed full Renner action - is probably my favourite. same string, same hammer. they are 30% cheaper from Schimmel due to cheaper labour in Poland.

I was shopping for my piano just few weeks ago, if not the space issue Vogel 180T is my no.1 choice at 20k category smile
show your dad the Piano
http://www.pianobuyer.com/fall12/44.html

heres a clip which does match my memory of the sweet sounding Vogel. V177 was the vintage model.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQCunZLw-LU
_________________________
PLEYEL P124

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#2043073 - 03/04/13 10:10 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
personne Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/24/12
Posts: 123
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: Jason Zhao
A Vogel huh?
But you see my dad is very stubborn and will only accept to buy a Yamaha.


Kawai RX-2 is also at 20K range, may be your dad will be able to accept this one smile
_________________________
Playing on Roland HP-507RW

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#2043076 - 03/04/13 10:14 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
xbj Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 8
IMHO, the sound of the A1 (NOT the GA1! but the Japanese A1) and C2 are far superior to the C1. I hear real phase cancellation going on in the tone of the 5'3" scale of the C1. Why I also prefer C2's to C3's for the same reason, while everyone tells me I'm nuts. Once you get up to the c5's and above, I no longer hear any phase cancellation, although differences between individual pianos are more pronounced. If you can test the pianos side by side, you'll easily hear the difference. Something about how the string length creates the harmonics. The C1 just sounds bad compared to the ones on either side.

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#2043139 - 03/05/13 01:24 AM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
musicpassion Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 883
Loc: California, USA
Originally Posted By: Jason Zhao
But you see my dad is very stubborn and will only accept to buy a Yamaha.

Does he have any reasons for being stuck on Yamaha? Is it just somthing he's heard of, and therefore comfortable with?
_________________________
Pianist and Piano Teacher

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#2043507 - 03/05/13 06:20 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Jason Zhao Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 58
The moment I show him a piano that I might consider that is NOT yamaha, he raises his voice and soon starts yelling something like ONLY YAMAHA.

I've heard of the C1 before and to me it's perfectly fine, I've tried the GC1 to and that already seemed impressive.

As for a reason, my dad just seems to base his reason off of my incredibly biased piano teacher. She always claimed that Yamaha is better than Kawai and that the only brand that's better is Mason and Hamlin or Steinway.

My dad seemed to have listened to her TO much as I think I know how to judge what I look at.

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#2043508 - 03/05/13 06:21 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Jason Zhao Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 58
My dad also never listens to reason and the only method is to trick him into admitting something.

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#2043514 - 03/05/13 06:33 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Steven Y. A. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 291
Loc: Toronto
start working with your teacher then. tell her your favorite pianist Ashkenazy plays a brand called "Bechstein" which you have never heard before. Liszt also owns a Bechstein and performed on Bosendorfer. Rachmaninov plays on Bluthner and Prokofiev owns an August Forster. What is her opinion on these brands?
Tell her Peter Odunjian (the conductor of Toronto Symphony Orchestra) owns a Schimmel, not Yamaha. etc..
convince your teacher then let your teacher convince your dad laugh

yamaha is great but make sure you dig around see what you like the best before making the decision. I assume this piano is staying with you for many years.


Edited by Steven Y. A. (03/05/13 06:34 PM)
_________________________
PLEYEL P124

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#2043539 - 03/05/13 07:27 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Jason Zhao Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 58
Hmm, that does sound like a good plan, although she might say something ridiculous like last time. (She once said that Kawai was in bankruptcy)

She said that Yamaha is the choice of teachers, because of clarity or something.

But once I do convince my teacher, my dad should willingly listen to her or else he's just a stupid being.

I found that I love Schimmel sound, very bright and sweet, I wonder if a Vogel would sound like that...

Any other methods? One method I found was to get him to listen to a piano sound without revealing the brand and ask him if he likes it. He once told me that he liked a Kawai RX-1 and when I revealed the brand to him he looked awkward. How's this method?

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#2043547 - 03/05/13 07:42 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Steven Y. A. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 291
Loc: Toronto
haha hes your dad not mine..
some famous engineer said use the nature, dont fight against it..
_________________________
PLEYEL P124

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#2043549 - 03/05/13 07:47 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
PianistInJapan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/13
Posts: 32
Loc: Japan
Is this teacher associated with a Yamaha school?

Other question:
Is there any positive bias towards Yamaha in the country you are located in? From your online name I understand you may have Chinese roots, so maybe you live in China. I read somewhere that Yamaha has a very good name in China. Maybe it is good to point out that nowadays more and more music schools in China buy Kawai pianos rather than Yamahas (at least that is what my Kawai dealer in Japan told me, but it may be biased).
_________________________
Kawai RX-2
Kawai PN390 digital

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#2043558 - 03/05/13 08:13 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: PianistInJapan]
adak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: PianistInJapan
Is this teacher associated with a Yamaha school?

Other question:
Is there any positive bias towards Yamaha in the country you are located in? From your online name I understand you may have Chinese roots, so maybe you live in China. I read somewhere that Yamaha has a very good name in China. Maybe it is good to point out that nowadays more and more music schools in China buy Kawai pianos rather than Yamahas (at least that is what my Kawai dealer in Japan told me, but it may be biased).


If you had read the first post it clearly says he is Canadian.
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-150


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#2043560 - 03/05/13 08:21 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Steven Y. A.]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7112
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: Steven Y. A.
Liszt also owns a Bechstein and performed on Bosendorfer. Rachmaninov plays on Bluthner and Prokofiev owns an August Forster.

WOW! - They really are immortal! They are very famous decomposers.

(Sorry Stephen, couldn't resist)
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2043583 - 03/05/13 08:54 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Jason Zhao Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 58
Well, my teacher once worked in a Yamaha School but is no longer associated with them.
Now she works as one of Alberta's top private Teachers.

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#2043590 - 03/05/13 09:05 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: PianistInJapan]
Steven Y. A. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 291
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: PianistInJapan
Is this teacher associated with a Yamaha school?

Other question:
Is there any positive bias towards Yamaha in the country you are located in? From your online name I understand you may have Chinese roots, so maybe you live in China. I read somewhere that Yamaha has a very good name in China. Maybe it is good to point out that nowadays more and more music schools in China buy Kawai pianos rather than Yamahas (at least that is what my Kawai dealer in Japan told me, but it may be biased).


that is correct. the Piano boom in China goes back all the way to 80s-90s, when every household wants a piano as their major purchase (same as TV). The earlier quality of Chinese pianos were poor,the price tag of German pianos were unreachable (which is still the case today), where Yamaha has already established their reputation in 60s - while the price is still very very expensive but institutions and very rich people are still able to purchase them. You can imagine the difference between a Yamaha and Chinese pianos from 80s-90s. Before Langlang went to Curtis, he has only heard of 2 brands: pearl river - which he practiced 12 years on it, and Yamaha - everyones dream piano.

Kawai today has a better cost/performance ratio. And Shingeru Kawai has a very attractive price. (where German pianos are twice the cost in China vs North America). Yamaha and Kawai produce some of the most durable pianos.
_________________________
PLEYEL P124

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#2043600 - 03/05/13 09:24 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1607
Loc: California
Just count your blessings. If my parents were buying me a piano, I would take whatever brand they insist on and not argue. Your dad may have good reasons to consider only Yamaha such as quality, reliability, ease of re-sell, low cost of ownership. I could think of a lot worse things to have than a new Yamaha.

It's just the way it is some times. When my boss buys me a new laptop, do I tell him I don't want a Thinkpad, I want a Macbook Air? No. I find myself the absolute best Thinkpad I could get.
_________________________
Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci

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#2043749 - 03/06/13 03:43 AM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
ashley john Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/05/12
Posts: 11
Loc: Banned
Hey...you can get it at much lower price. Haggle or search for another dealer.
_________________________
Link to pawn shop deleted by moderator

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#2043773 - 03/06/13 06:05 AM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
markmarz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 19
Loc: IL
How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have a thankless child!

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#2043799 - 03/06/13 07:53 AM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
jawhitti Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 235
I got an eight year old C6 for 22k in the US. I gather the Canadian market is different but 22k for a C1 seems awfully high.

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#2043811 - 03/06/13 08:21 AM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Roger Ransom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 1237
Loc: SouthWest Michigan
Yes, when I was a teenager my Dad got me a very used Lyon and Healy grand piano. I was ecstatic and played it until I was out on my own supporting myself.

There is nothing wrong with a Yamaha or whatever else he wants to buy you. Thank your lucky stars and play it. There are MANY people playing on old beat up pianos who would love to trade with you.
_________________________
Laugh More
Yamaha G7 - Roland FP7

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#2044073 - 03/06/13 06:37 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Jason Zhao Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 58
Well I am grateful, I just want my dad to open up more to other options. I find the C1 to be amazing but perhaps there is something even better for the same price out there.

I heard that Edmonton prices were high but $22,000 for a C1 does now seem a bit high now.
There are three piano dealers, one sells Yamaha's and Bosendorfrrs, the other sells Kawai's, and the other sells Steinways, Heinzmann's, Bostons and Essexs.

All of them have pretty high prices compared to other places.

Would you think Calgary has much cheaper prices?

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#2044079 - 03/06/13 06:45 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
Jonathan Alford Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/11
Posts: 358
Loc: Colorado
If you really like that C1, come up with a price you are comfortable with and make an offer.

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#2044081 - 03/06/13 06:46 PM Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? [Re: Jason Zhao]
adak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
Have you considered getting a second-hand piano? Read the Piano Book http://www.pianobuyer.com/pianobook.html and save yourself some money. That is an option to consider.

http://www.amazon.ca/Piano-Book-Buying-O...3703&sr=8-1

Of course it is best to learn how to negotiate. You don't have the buy the piano right away. There are always pianos available for sale instores and elsewhere, there is no rush. Don't be pressured into paying a high price.

And in case it wasn't obvious, you are not suppose to pay list price on pianos. There is always room to go down, whether by 10% or 75% off. It can depends on how long that piano has been sitting in the showroom, a piano sitting there for 10 years can be bought for more of a discount than a piano that sells itself in a month.
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-150


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