Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Yamaha CP4 Rebate
Yamaha CP4 Rebate
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
135 registered (accordeur, ADWyatt, albumblatter, acortot, Almaviva, 45 invisible), 1443 Guests and 11 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2044592 - 03/07/13 04:03 PM Center pin drift
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2481
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
Talked with a colleague yesterday about this and wondering if anyone has some theories. I was working on an 80 y/o Canadian upright and there were about 25 sluggish hammers between the mid bichords and the central part of the keyboard. Upon closer inspection, it turned out that the sluggishness was due to the wippens center pins all drifed out to the right and dragging on the wippen beside it. The piano is not going to be kept much longer so i just quick fixed it with a flat blade pushing them back in place.

Anyways, this got me thinking. Why would they all shift out to the right and not haphazardly this way and that?

I'm thinking it might be that the CP's were snipped off with dull tool and mushroomed a bit on one side with factory production. Any other possibilities?
_________________________
Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region

Top
(ad 568) PTG Convention 2015 Denver
PTG Convention July 15 to 18 Denver
#2044611 - 03/07/13 04:16 PM Re: Center pin drift [Re: Emmery]
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 2217
Loc: Suffolk, England
The angle of the strings?
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

Top
#2044618 - 03/07/13 04:20 PM Re: Center pin drift [Re: Emmery]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
large humidity swings create center pins going on holidays in my experience (as the absence of tightening of the little plate on the vertical butts , of course)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


Top
#2044621 - 03/07/13 04:22 PM Re: Center pin drift [Re: Withindale]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4263
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Originally Posted By: Withindale
The angle of the strings?


The earth turns to the left……

Ok seriously I had the same thing once with those Japanese butts with the little metal plate and the flange attaches to the metal rail.

One drifted out and pushed directly onto the next one, then consecutively for about a half dozen flanges.

The mushrooming is a plausible explanation. Could be the whippens were loose and vibrating.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

Top
#2044633 - 03/07/13 04:46 PM Re: Center pin drift [Re: Emmery]
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 2217
Loc: Suffolk, England
There must be a lateral force moving those pins to the right. If the hammer does not hit the strings entirely squarely then the forces at the flange will not be entirely square. There will be a component of force along the pin.

The hammers for those notes in many pianos are angled as are the strings so nothing is entirely square. The asymmetry is reasonably consistent.

Just a possibility.
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

Top
#2044650 - 03/07/13 05:08 PM Re: Center pin drift [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos
Originally Posted By: Withindale
The angle of the strings?


The earth turns to the left……

Ok seriously I had the same thing once with those Japanese butts with the little metal plate and the flange attaches to the metal rail.

One drifted out and pushed directly onto the next one, then consecutively for about a half dozen flanges.

The mushrooming is a plausible explanation. Could be the whippens were loose and vibrating.


Hi Dan, all Renner butts have that little plate , here.

But for the whippens also, I noticed direct relation with humidity swings , never find that problem in normal moderate conditions.
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


Top
#2044687 - 03/07/13 06:33 PM Re: Center pin drift [Re: Emmery]
daniokeeper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: PA
Just a guess...

Maybe the pins were all inserted from the right side during the manufacturing process?

Then, maybe they weren't all pushed in the whole way when the piano was manufactured?

Then, expansion and contraction of the hole in the jack over the years allowed the pins to become loose enough?
_________________________
Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.tinyurl.com/tunerjoe
(semi-retired)

Top
#2044696 - 03/07/13 06:43 PM Re: Center pin drift [Re: Emmery]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
one side of the pin is "pre cut" and does not have the same termination than the other ( a little rounded because of the groove allowing the cut)
May be that is enough to generate a move with moisture change, the cloth swell and may be able to push a little more on that side than the other.

AT the same time, when humidity is high, the wood swell and the fit is less tight for the pin (I suppose)

The grooved side allows me to know what direction the pin was inserted originally


Edited by Olek (03/07/13 07:08 PM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


Top
#2044718 - 03/07/13 07:07 PM Re: Center pin drift [Re: Emmery]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
On the German Steinway parts, (Renner made) the center pins have a groove in the middle.

I wonder if this is not done to allow a better fixation of the center, the wood may swell in the groove and any lateral motion is avoided then.

Never find that groove on other parts


Edited by Olek (03/08/13 02:49 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
circle of 5ths coaster
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Hal Leonard Teacher VIP
Hal Leonard Teacher VIP Your Source for Piano Music
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Having a hard time transitioning to a heavier key action
by symphonicfinale
03/30/15 07:06 PM
Teaching a Four Year Old
by DameMyra
03/30/15 06:39 PM
DP + Backing Track
by doremi
03/30/15 05:58 PM
Piano buying question
by Frost
03/30/15 05:21 PM
Haydn, die Sieben Worte
by Johan B
03/30/15 03:26 PM
What's Hot!!
Trade Regrets: Gary Trafton - Piano Rep
--------------------
Historic Piano Documents
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
78,711 Registered Members
43 Forums
162,853 Topics
2,390,441 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission