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#2044864 - 03/08/13 01:11 AM Bridle Strap Band-Aid
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3980
Loc: Rockford, IL
I have been working on a 1960s-era Cable console. The hammer felt was coming undone on a number of hammers:



Apparently, someone had attempted a few repairs, earlier, too:



So the plan was to get out the hide glue and clamps. The only snag that I ran into in this project (that I am aware of...) is that when I went to undo the bridle strap from its wire, a lot of the leathery tab stuff crumbled into sand and powder. Enough was lost that when I went to put the straps back in place on the downhill side of the job, even more came off, making many of the straps unuseable.







Get new bridle straps, right? Only, these are glued into the butt assembly. Replacing them would be a pain in the, well, you know... butt. What to do?

So, I went to the fabric store for a look-see (thinking something along the lines of "iron-on something") and found this stuff called "Pressure Sensitive Nylon," basically, adhesive tent material used for mending tents and things. $2 ante.



So, I cut a tab and pressed it on, and ran a needle through the old hole from the back to give me a pilot for the wire.









My only regret at this point (and until someone chides me for this kind of fix) is that I could not find green material, only blue. I'm sure that somewhere in the universe, there is green. And red. blush

--Andy
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#2044867 - 03/08/13 01:35 AM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21826
Loc: Oakland
That seems like a nice job. There are spring clip bridle straps that work for butts like these, although they can loosen and rattle, and sometimes they do not hold well. I use plain straps, cut to the proper length, and use a hot glue gun. I put a bead of glue on the underside of the catcher dowel, so there is plenty of surface area for the glue, and place the end of the strap at the catcher, run it towards the butt, and bend it back, so it has the same geometry as the original.
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#2044872 - 03/08/13 02:08 AM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 2069
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Hi Andy,

This looks like a nice-enough job! I hope that the adhesive holds up in the long term. I've had some iron-on and press-on adhesives fail with time. [Edit: not in a piano, but in household and camping applications.]

Just for your info: the tape ends for bridle straps are also available separately. Not from Schaff, mind you! But some suppliers do have them. If the tapes themselves are still in good condition, it is always an option just to replace the leather ends.

I had a similar situation with the action from a Welmar upright (1959) the other day. The tape ends were not leather to start with, but some glossy artificial material that was totally brittle. I managed to source some bridle tape ends from a local supplier. Unfortunately, these were without holes, but a [Edit: I] made a jig and used a 1.5 mm drill on my drill press to put holes in the tape ends. Didn't take me all that long - perhaps 45 min.

Johnkie advised me on how to remove the old ones and glue the new ones on. It worked a treat, and looks quite neat. In the process of removing the old ones (hot water), the dusty tapes were automatically cleaned. He also sent me a spare set of leather tape ends. (Thanks again, Johnkie.) Unfortunately I don't have any pictures from that part of the job, but it's really quite simple to understand. (Using a jig consisting of a block of wood with a wire knocked into it.)

It looks as though you replaced the catcher buckskins on that action. Did you do the backcheck felts too?


Edited by Mark R. (03/08/13 02:19 AM)
Edit Reason: given in post: addendum and typo.
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#2044874 - 03/08/13 02:10 AM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: BDB]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3980
Loc: Rockford, IL
@BDB: Ahh! Clever! There is a lot to like about that idea! Thanks for the tip, BDB! Do you use the hot glue gun because the glue sets up so quickly?

@MarkR: Your way would be the proper-est way! I see that now, and thanks for letting me know that! grin I was a little apprehensive about the longevity aspects of the press-on material, but figured that, for this piano, it would do, and I could correct it later if it came to that. As to the other felts, no, those are all original. This piano is in amazingly good condition, aside from the fact that 24 hammer felts came undone and the bridle strap felts turned to dust. I'll tune it up tomorrow, and we'll see what kind of a piano it really is! laugh


Edited by Cinnamonbear (03/08/13 02:21 AM)
Edit Reason: added reply
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#2044991 - 03/08/13 10:23 AM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Monaco Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/28/11
Posts: 387
Loc: GA
I generally like to tune a piano before I do anything else. That way I make sure the piano is worth the repairs. If you sell a repair job, do the work and go to tune the piano and then have to tell the customer pin block is shot, you look like a schmuck. (can I say that word on this forum?)
By the way, Allan Gilreath told me something about fixing hammers that had come unglued that can be done in the piano. I don't remember exactly but I am pretty sure it was tightbond trim and molding glue and zip ties to clamp the hammer in place. Cut the tails off and leave the zip tie until next time you come to tune. Done.
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#2044992 - 03/08/13 10:29 AM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
That Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/11
Posts: 413
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Looks great! Congrats on a job well done.
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Lincoln, NE
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#2045051 - 03/08/13 12:39 PM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Nice idea improvised. I adverise againt the glue gun, it is not nice and does not stay put always for really long. Even PVA glue can be used (thickened) but as usual, hide glue is the best choice for such jobs.

Staple not passing thru on those hammers..
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#2045073 - 03/08/13 01:43 PM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
David Boyce Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 293
Loc: Scotland
Hecschers the UK supply house used to have two different shapes of tape ends available. I find very often on old pianos that the leather ends have perished but the braid tape is OK. Sadly Heckschers don't have the tape ends now. Jahn in Germany do similar ones though.

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#2045082 - 03/08/13 01:59 PM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Johnkie Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 737
Loc: England
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#2045154 - 03/08/13 04:01 PM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Monaco]
Jim Frazee Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 393
Loc: Westchester County, New York
Monaco,

"schmuck. (can I say that word on this forum?)
By the way, Allan Gilreath told"

Of course you can use "Schmuck" and "Allan Gilreath" on this board, just never in the same sentence He's such an admired tech, why, I'd have 90 good things to say about him in 90 seconds! thumb
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#2045308 - 03/08/13 11:45 PM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Monaco]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3980
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Monaco
I generally like to tune a piano before I do anything else. That way I make sure the piano is worth the repairs. If you sell a repair job, do the work and go to tune the piano and then have to tell the customer pin block is shot, you look like a schmuck. (can I say that word on this forum?)


Seems like a good practice, Ben. No argument, there. [edit: On second thought, wouldn't you want to do a once-over with your hands, eyes and ears and give a quick assessment before even tuning it? That's what I did with the Cable console...] Yes, no one wants to be a schmuck. Or a pudd. (Can I say "pudd" on Piano World?) The only thing you're missing from my story is context. I didn't sell a job. I'm actually "donating" my "free" time resurrecting dilapidated pianos at The Conover Square Mall. I was introduced to the mall owner by a mutual friend a few years ago. The mall building started out as the Schiller Piano Factory in the 1800s, which was bought by the Cable piano company, which was bought by the Conover company, which was bought by... well, you get the picture. For more context, you can see this history thread that I started and need to finish! Anyway, the mall is anchored by a bunch of antique shops, and the owner is trying to create a piano gallery to show some of the history of the factory with examples of instruments built there. He's glommed onto a number of pianos. Besides the ones that came with the building, he's found some turn of the century Schiller uprights, 30s and 40s Schiller spinets, 50s and 60s Cable consoles, one 1925 Conover grand, a Schiller grand in rough shape, and a Wurlitzer grand. About 25 pianos in all, some worth nothing but parts. In fact, most of these pianos would be considered junk yard fodder by most of the people who check in daily to this forum. I am taking the pianos that have the most potential and "structural integrity," and trying to bring them back to some sort of useable life. It is piano lab for me, a beginner tuner/tech, and a boon for the mall owner who is happy to see a part of his vision for the mall come to fruition.

This particular Cable console was bought in 1952 (I was wrong that it was a 60s-era console!). It spent most of its life 8 blocks away from the factory in someone's home, and when the piano's owner passed away, it came back to the factory (now mall). It was last tuned in 2010, at which time it was also cleaned and the hammers filed. The tuner also recently passed away, and with him, some information. The piano tuned up pretty nicely, today, though. It has a pleasant tone, but there are issues to address before I'd want to post a recording. It needs a good regulating pass. I'll post a recording of the piano when the time is right.

In the meantime, here is the 1925 Conover 5' grand. It is still not quite where I want it, tuning-wise (still some stretch work to figure out and some unison work to do) but the piano has been revealing its secrets to me...

April Showers (1921) on a 1925 Conover 5' Grand (A period piece on a period instrument (?) grin ) (BTW, Thank you, Isaac, for wisdom, given in another thread, regarding feeling the springiness of the string and working with the coil. Whether I use the impact method or the pull method, I can sense what is happening and what is needed, now. thumb )

The Conover grand needs a thorough cleaning, including knocking the dust from the bass strings and giving them a twist, plus a good key-leveling and regulation. The bass dampers need a tweek, too.

Originally Posted By: Monaco
By the way, Allan Gilreath told me something about fixing hammers that had come unglued that can be done in the piano. I don't remember exactly but I am pretty sure it was tightbond trim and molding glue and zip ties to clamp the hammer in place. Cut the tails off and leave the zip tie until next time you come to tune. Done.


Although I like the zip-tie idea, personally, I'm as leery of Titebond trim glue as I am about hot glue from a hot glue gun. Titebond trim glue adds bulk, and, as it is very plasticky, it also adds thud. I used Titebond Cold Hide Glue, thusly. The guitar builders told me that they like hide glue because its crystilline structure transmits sound vibrations cleanly. One time, I heard Trevor Stephenson say that if it doesn't crow, moo, or leap, he wouldn't want it in an instrument. Since hide glue is dead cows, it has moo in it somewhere. The reddish/brown material in the pictures is rubber plumber's gasket, which I had on hand from another project. The last picture is entitled "Calling All Clamps!"










grin


Edited by Cinnamonbear (03/09/13 06:58 AM)
Edit Reason: added a thought
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#2045310 - 03/08/13 11:54 PM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: David Boyce]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3980
Loc: Rockford, IL
David and Johnkie--thanks for the info on the tabs! smile
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#2045319 - 03/09/13 12:37 AM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21826
Loc: Oakland
Yes, I use the glue gun for several reasons, although chiefly because it sets up quickly. Also, if I need to do it again, it comes off without too much trouble. I use the tip to heat through the strap so it makes a stronger bond. One should choose glue on its merits: there are not a lot of things that I would use the glue gun for, but this is one of them.

I do not use hide glue for hammer felts like this. Yellow glue is stronger and more moisture resistant.
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#2045328 - 03/09/13 01:08 AM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: BDB]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3980
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: BDB
Yellow glue is stronger and more moisture resistant.


But what about the bulk?

Also, I had your blue school glue idea in the back of my mind when I started this, but opted for hide glue for the reasons I gave, above. I could see the blue school glue for the damper applications, but I just wasn't comfortable with it for something like a hammer felt that has so much springy energy at the bend. Intuition speaking, only--not knowledge. I really like the bridle strap geometry you use.

When I did this, put thinned hide glue on the felt and wood to let it soak in a little, and then, when it had set up some, I put un-diluted hide glue over it before clamping. This I learned to do when the first few that I did with thinned hide glue came apart shortly after I un-clamped them (three out of the 24), but with those, I figured that part of my problem was impatience, and that I un-clamped them too soon. I figured that at least the felt was primed with hide glue, and the second application of full strength stuff seemed to hold very well. I left the clamps on for a number of hours. It was a slow way to do it, but I believe in it. My understanding of the hide glue from the guitar makers and furniture makers is that it stands up well to ambient air moisture, but dissolves nicely when moisture is purposefully applied in order to un-do something. As always, I could be wrong. (I'm kind of used to that, now.) Anyway, we shall see how they hold. At least I'll get to monitor the piano regularly and watch for failure. And if I am not around if it fails, at least the next guy gets to deal with hide glue instead of carpenter's glue. grin

Thanks, BDB!
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#2045403 - 03/09/13 08:20 AM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Thank you Cinnamonbear, it is appreciated ! The vynil glue (white glue for wood ?) is a very bad option for dampers. I have seen some literally falling by themselves 10 years later .. Hide glue is ideal there.
(I even prefer heat gun glue on straps to dampers glued pva glue)

Impressing gluing back of the felts ! (at this point new hammers are not so much work and their cost is not very high, but I see the job !)

Hide glue (with some skin in the mix) is the "only" glue for hammer felt on exotic wood molding (greasy woods)

Renner statment.. (plus it add tension, which is certainly good)


Edited by Olek (03/09/13 04:35 PM)
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#2045509 - 03/09/13 01:44 PM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Olek]
RestorerPhil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 212
Loc: Georgia, USA
A couple of years ago (out of pity for a retired school teacher) I actually reglued an entire set of loosening hammer felts on a Yamaha console. I think It also needed the butt springs. Due to the combination job, all the butt assemblies were removed from the piano for work. I actually used hide glue, a microwave oven, and thread. No clamps. After an experimental shot or two, a pattern of thread wrapping was chosen, so that the entire set would look alike. Since each wrap of thread can apply accumulating pressure, this works well. Using the microwave on power level one or two can gently warm the assembly without burning a center pin bushing, etc.(You can even shield that area with a tent of foil, if you prefer. Just keep a good distance between the brass pin and the foil. You don't want a spark across to generate heat.) If you don't have power levels, a zap of six to nine seconds per heating is all you want. Zap, apply glue, wrap,... and re-zap, if you stall out on one and the parts get too cool.

As the thread pressure increases, it sinks in and holds position pretty well. On the larger (bass) hammers I sometimes had to put a tiny nick in the felt to create a place for the thread to grab, so as not to slip down the slope, so to speak. Hammers that were more stubborn needed a pair of needle nose vise grips to help with the initial pressure, then the rest of the closure was secured by the wraps of the thread. I would grab the felt with the v. grips about mid-way, start wrapping beyond them toward the big end of the hammer head, then release the grips as the wrapping got to the plier.

The wrapping pattern was something like this:
1. Three wraps atop each other
2. A diagonal move of about 3 - 4 mm
3. Three more wraps, then another diagonal move
etc.
On the smaller hammers, requiring less pressure, the number of wraps would be three to start the first band and on the last band, but only two on the intermediate wrap bands. By being consistent, the job looked decent enough to leave in place. Since I did not peel every single surface, by leaving the thread wrap, I don't think that the others will give way - at least not in the next twenty years by which time it will need new hammers anyway and will likely be in the hands of heirs.

The thread was an ivory or cream color and was left on the hammers - a typical sewing thread. It is stronger than you think. Since it can work into the creases of your skin near your knuckles as you work, same tape was applied to my skin to keep from cutting there.

After shaping I think I liked the tone better than I ever had before. They were plenty bright, but not brittle like some older Yamaha hammers can be, so the job seemed worthwhile.

I have not seen this on any other Yamaha, but have seen it on quite a few Baldwins and Aeolian products of '70s - '80s vintage.


Edited by RestorerPhil (03/09/13 02:01 PM)
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#2045568 - 03/09/13 04:38 PM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Well, an original Yamaha vertical set is sold between 120 to 140 Euros plus VAT...

I never have seen yamaha heads coming unglued , that would have surprised me .
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#2045646 - 03/09/13 07:18 PM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
BenP Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 166
Loc: South Jersey
Nice work Cinnamonbear! I had a similar issue last summer on a very old spinet that was not worth a lot of restoration - wish I had thought of this at the time. I did something else makeshift to keep it working - can't even remember at the moment.

I'm jealous of you people that actually think to take pictures while you're working on a project. I never think of that until a day or two later.
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#2045647 - 03/09/13 07:20 PM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Olek]
RestorerPhil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 212
Loc: Georgia, USA
Yes, Olek, the point of cost was a close call.

Basically, I did this on what I often call the "butter bean shelling" plan. Some might call it basket weaving. It is doing work in the evening while watching television and not thinking of it as full-rate labor. The felt was barely worn. The piano is gently used. Sadly, the hammer felt glue had utterly failed.

I charged about sixty percent of what I would have for a new set of hammers. Will I do it again? Perhaps not, but in this one odd instance I did so, and the result was good. She is happy and spent less for a more than satisfactory result.

Two weeks ago, however, I did a new set of hammers on a Baldwin 243 which had the same problem. I did not even mention the idea of my Houdini thread trick this time.

Perhaps this should start a new thread: "Appropriate, Yet Odd Repair Jobs."
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#2045736 - 03/10/13 12:31 AM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1974
Loc: Philadelphia area
I had to laugh at the title of the post, "Bridle Strap Band-Aid". I have seen this repair done with the sticky section of a Band-Aid wrapped around the tab. I have no idea who did the repair; and yes, I left well enough alone.

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#2045866 - 03/10/13 10:53 AM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2445
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
I'd have a hard time tuning that piano accurately with those hammers coming apart. I can see why Andy chose to repair the hammers first.

But then, I'm old school and tune by ear...
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#2045933 - 03/10/13 01:11 PM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
James Carney Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 440
Loc: new york city
Looks good, although if you're going to all that trouble I think it makes more sense to replace the entire strap - it would actually be less work, plus the entire strap will eventually deteriorate and fall apart anyway, not just the ends that need reinforcement.

You can buy a new set of straps and catchers for very little money; remove the old catcher shanks, use hot hide glue, and have new straps at a consistent length, new catcher leather, and catchers that will be click-free for many years.

Regarding the hammerhead repair, I have been using the trick that Emmery shared a couple of years back with great success:

1. Use whatever clamp works to secure the felt over the molding as it would have appeared from the factory. (You will keep the clamp on until the very end of the procedure.) Get the felt as tight as possible against the molding and be sure it won't slip. Once that is done...

2. drill a hole just large enough to fit a plastic cable tie through it; you will be drilling through one side of the felt, then the molding, then keep going out through the other side. The smaller the hole the better.

3. Clip off the end of the cable tie that functions as the "lock" and set aside for the moment.

4. Ignite the end of the cable tie that you just clipped the "lock" from. Extinguish and quickly flatten the plastic on a hard surface you don't care about, or against a piece of cardboard on the floor. The idea is to make that melted end "mushroom" so that it will pull one side of the felt tight against the hammer molding without slipping through the hole you drilled.

5. slip the cable tie through the hammer and once completely through, attach the cut off "lock" and secure. Use pliers to ratchet the lock as tight as possible on the tie, and it will pull the assembly together. Once ratcheted as tightly as possible, snip off the excess cable tie coming through the lock. Unclamp and you are done.

If you do this correctly the tone should be just as good as neighboring hammers that are still intact. There is no need to use any glue with this method (which fails more often than not in my experience.) I've done this repair six or seven times and it works great -Thanks Emmery!
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#2045949 - 03/10/13 01:54 PM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Sorry but the tension in a hammer is located even around the underfelt, the staple is a security. cosmetically it should work but just o point of fixation seem really not enough to me.

about the glues, hide glue develop as much inner strain to chip the glass, I don't know another glue that does that (but only some glue in sheets I baught from an old stock does, it is stamped "extra strong", takes a long time to gel and is , indeed, extra strong I am really pleased I have find it, while it may be 50 years old)
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#2047423 - 03/13/13 02:13 AM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: OperaTenor]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3980
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: OperaTenor
I'd have a hard time tuning that piano accurately with those hammers coming apart. I can see why Andy chose to repair the hammers first.

But then, I'm old school and tune by ear...


Hey, at least I'm not breaking strings all the time when I tune!

(Kidding, OperaTenor! Kidddd-ding!!! I can be a trouble maker, too, you know... wink )

Thank you, everyone, for your contributions to this thread. I've learned a ton from you, and now I hope to learn some more. (Ready OperaTenor?)

Here are two recordings I made today on the 1952 Cable 40" Console. On Friday, I installed the action and tuned it up (I tuned the bass by ear...). Then, on Monday, I did a regulating pass and touched up the tuning some more. Today, I touched up some of the regulation, then, when the mall got quiet enough, did these two.

Have at it. Please let me know what you hear. I know there are a few bad dampers making icky noise. What else do you hear that I might need to address?

Handel Keyboard Suite No. 2, Adagio

"Ivy" by Hoagy Carmichael


Thanks in advance for your critiques!
--Andy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2047476 - 03/13/13 05:46 AM Re: Bridle Strap Band-Aid [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Hi , thanks for the recording, that sound very strange, but not surprising, the hammer have gained some firmness but allow zero tone lenght, it diseappear so fast, it is amasing.

It could be a good exemple of hammers that loose their tension by overneedling or felt getting really old, as the tension loss effect is really what strikes when listening.

minimal clarity, but the tone is a little mufled too, then as no power is given from the start, the slope is extra straight and highly slanted , you could try to analyse with SPEAR or a similar software, you will see how the spectra dissipates (evaporates)

I am unsure the felt is glued or no, if it is glued, I would try impregnation, with a thick product around the core in basses, a thinner in the mediums. probably 2 or 3 passes and inserted from the side. BTW hide glue was used for hammer impregnation in early years of piano making (I have read that, never tried myself)

If not glued, I believe no gain is to be expected, as the felt will only retract on itself a bit and harden.

Even on yet glued and stapled heads, pinching the bottom and impregnating the hammer while pressed raise a little the tone "lenght" (power of FFF mean the same) while the spectra does not change much (no more high partials)

That is the moment to experiment and analyze what we hear in regard of the actions on the hammer; it will serve in normal voicing, as dealing with power is subtle, we perceive it ion the way the envelope behave, and by the vibration motion perceived under the fingers - easily in basses and low medium, but the perception is replaced by listening once you are used to feel that part of tone, higher in the treble.






Edited by Olek (03/13/13 07:04 AM)
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